Too much self-esteem?

Again, another instance where we try to help our children, and instead do them a huge disservice.

We should praise our children, and praise them often. We should encourage them to do their best. But we shouldn’t lie to them and tell them something is good, when it isn’t. Being honest and kind is always going to do more good than being dishonest and gushing.

Our school district has done away with the “minus” in grades because children might feel badly about themselves. Please.

It’s okay to fall down. It’s the getting back up that determines character. Our children are a lot tougher than we give them credit for.

I am one of those terrible moms who doesn’t automatically praise everything my sons do. My son is an incredible artist and a pretty good woodworker. But recently he did a really half-arsed job on his pinewood derby car. He complained that it wouldn’t roll straight and I told him, “You rushed through it, and put no time and effort into it. It is not your best work.” I could tell that he agreed with me, even though he was pouting about it. He will probably be downstairs over the weekend, revising his design, if I know him.

When he does an awesome drawing, I frame it, hang it in my office or dining room, and show everyone, and he is proud of it too. But he also knows when he is just being sloppy, and he knows BS if I spout it.

Of course, the opportunity to really succeed at something means the opportunity to really fail at something — another thing I think is important, useful, and implied by the free range philosophy — but a terribly uncomfortable idea for many people.

I wish to goodness I’d had the chance to fail more growing up.

This reminds me of something I saw posted on one of my scrapbooking forums.

A mom was at the park with her daughter, and the daughter was extremely proud that she figured out the monkey bars, and was going back and forth on them. Mom #2 shows up with her kid, and kid #2 hasn’t figured out the monkey bars yet, so was a little frustrated. Instead of encouraging her to work harder, etc, Mom #2 says to her daughter, within earshot of Mom #1, “It’s ok honey, maybe so-and-so’s mom will tell her to get off the monkey bars so you don’t feel so bad.”

Fortunately mom #1 had the correct response which was to just stare at mom #2 and continue to tell her child to stay on the monkey bars, but WOW.

I’m soooo glad you wrote about this. Praise is wonderful, but I often ask myself if the high praise is something warranted…’Oh, thank you sooo much for throwing your own diaper away’…um, once they’re able to, shouldn’t it be a given. Shouldn’t children find some pride from within? Most praise I hear sounds false and overexuberant….for things that should just be done.

I’ve also loved reading all the comments. Thanks for sharing.

“Do you think you could possibly put one OUNCE of effort into your thank you note?” – saying rubbish like this is an excellent way to get ignored. You don’t get respect by offering none.

There may be a fine line between warranted and unwarranted praise, but there is a giant one between offering a worthwhile critique and being a nagging fishwife. Being able to give a person criticism without making them feel like dirt is a skill worth cultivating – if you actually want your feedback to be taken seriously.

Not offering praise isn’t denigrating a person – insulting them is. One will have a chance of being accepted, the other will be universally rejected.

I think it was a Futurama episode where they made a joke about grade inflation. in the future, someone is given the worst possible grade…. an A minus minus!

I used to work at a museum. With an answer that is reasonable, but incorrect, we tell the kids exactly that – that the answer is a reasonable one, it’s a good guess, but not right. When you get an answer to a question that’s SO wrong (like the Queen Elizabeth answer), you have to wonder if the kid is being snarky or if they are really that dumb. And in that case, you have to be really careful about how you answer, if nothing else than for litigation purposes. You can’t even answer assuming the kid is being snarky and laugh… because what if the kid is being serious and you laugh at their answer? You can’t say it is a good guess, because that makes you look dumb. I’d say this docent didn’t know what to say in this situation, and tried to be as safe as possible. Probably the best answer without having anyone (including the kid) think they were being insulted would be to just have said “No, I’m sorry, try again.”

David- If we have to be worried about being SUED for laughing at some kid’s dumb answer, we have bigger problems in this world. Also, I think that if a kid answers “Queen Elizabeth about a picture full of men, you ought to be able to assume he’s being snarky. I don’t believe you should humiliate people, but I also don’t believe that humiliation should be grounds for litigation. Good grief.

Lenore, that’s for speaking on this subject, it’s one dear to my heart, as is your site.

I try to keep the balance with my kids. My step daughter doesn’t seem to have a good dose of reality to go with her overblown self esteem. She seems to think her 2.2 GPA and no other activities are going to get her into the college she wants. I try to bring her back down to earth. Next year’s applications should be interesting…..

I couldn’t agree more on this, and it’s the same in the UK. We’ve seen dumbing down of qualifications and an easing up of exam standards because for kids to actually get the failing grades they deserve would just be… well, not the Labour Party thing to do! Same with encouraging shoddy institutions to dole out “degrees” for very little achievement.

It makes for poorly educated people who can’t survive in the real world.

hmm My son had a last minute karate testing. Last minute as in, I’d just realized it had been a YEAR since they tested him. This is one of those “we’ll tell YOU when he’s ready” places (thereby you pay forever & never get anywhere!) He’d not practiced board breaking & I inquired & was told he wouldn’t have to test for it. Lo & behold they make him try to break a board which he could not. He was embarassed of course. He was given 3 tries by the rules. They finished the testing, sent him back over to try FIVE more times & still it never broke.
He got a trophy in board breaking anyway! Needless to say, we don’t go there anymore. My son doesn’t need a trophy just for showing up.

I couldn’t agree more. Our kids need things that they can really suceed in that we can go WILD with the praise. We have a whole elementary school in our district built around praising nothing. My husband teaches at the HS and we haven’t been impressed with many of their graduates. Some are great — but some really think they should be gettin’ the praise for every little thing.
Not so much when you’re 16.

My father and I were talking about this just the other day. He used to teach at the college level and he changed his career because he wasn’t expected to teach. Instead, he was expected to hold his students’ hands and praise them. In theory, he was an English professor. In practice, the classes were more like free range discussion groups, allowing the kids to come to all their own conclusions without any historical or theoretical background from the professor. The result was, of course, a whole generation of kids who graduated with degrees in English having read a couple nice books and that was that.

I experienced much the same thing in my first year an University. To reduce drop out rates, my school had started a programme called “first year seminar.” Basically, this is a support group for students to meet new people and make friends as they transition from High School to University. It was absolutely awful. We studied grammar that everyone should have learned already, and we talked about “current issues.” I was paying through the nose to listen to the opinions of a bunch of under 20-year-olds. I could have had the same experience for the price of a beer if I had gone to the campus bar.

It’s a little off-topic, but it speaks to the same issue. It’s the idea that we must nurture our children’s minds into growth without first providing them with knowledge from which their opinions should be formed. It’s the idea that a kid’s opinions are worthwhile regardless of how factually based (or not) they may be.

Does it make kids feel good? Sure, but only in the short term. As soon as they meet their first real challenge, or the first boss who yells at them for getting the wrong answer, all that work building up their self-esteem is broken. Not only that, but they won’t know how to cope with it and will feel crushed. And when they do achieve, they won’t feel good about it because praise will feel empty (since all the other praise they’ve received HAS been empty). And not only does this kind of ridiculous confidence-raising attitude fail in its goal (long term), it also fails to adequately prepare kids for what the real world will be like once they turn 18 (22, if they decide to go to college) and are expected to actually work hard.

That’s not to say that they should be beaten down all the time. I’m all for constructive criticism (“well, this part of your project was really good, but you could do that part differently”). I’m also all for giving praise when it’s due.

I have to agree with Stuart that using snark when giving criticism may be fun and, certainly, kids will encounter it eventually – but it’s disrespectful. Do people roll their eyes at you when they don’t agree with you? Probably. But that doesn’t mean that you should do it too. It’s rude and it’s mean-spirited. We shouldn’t coddle our kids, but we shouldn’t be excessively rude and disrespectful to them either.

That’s not to say that we can’t use humour when making a criticism. I think that humour in the talking of negative things can too often be misinterpreted as snark. But my rule is usually “if I wouldn’t respond this way to my boss’s comments, I shouldn’t respond this way to my family members’ comments.”

“I took a child care class in high school (during the 90s), and they taught us that you shouldn’t say, for example, “No throwing rocks!” You should rephrase it so as not to hurt their fragile little egos. Say, “Rocks aren’t for throwing, okay? Wouldn’t you rather throw this ball?””

Actually, this is a perfectly valid suggestion, just not for that reason. Very young children who are still learning to speak – say, up until seven or so, though obviously the better they get at language the less this applies! – have trouble parsing statements like “don’t do this”. Instead, they hear the “do this” part first, and it can really confuse them and frustrate the both of you. Telling them what they can do (instead of what they can’t) helps both of you stay sane until they hit the developmental level where they understand without having to think about it. And you can’t force that development to come any faster than it does, alas.

Good idea – it was just worded badly to you.

“It’s a little off-topic, but it speaks to the same issue. It’s the idea that we must nurture our children’s minds into growth without first providing them with knowledge from which their opinions should be formed. It’s the idea that a kid’s opinions are worthwhile regardless of how factually based (or not) they may be.”

Grimalkin- YES, YES, YES! This is what I’ve been saying for years. In an extreme example, the of some children I tutored did not have them memorized the multiplication table, instead they learned all about ‘arrays’, and had to work out their own solution to these kinds of problems (4×6 kinds of problems) every single time, instead of just popping off the memorized answers. I’m sure the result was kids who were still counting on their fingers in high school.

I couldn’t agree with you more! I am an English teacher. Just recently at a department meeting we received a directive from our principal that we are no longer to give zeros for grades. Yes, that’s right, no zeros, even if the student did not turn in the assignment at all. Our principal doesn’t want students to feel discouraged. That goes against everything I believe in. I believe in having high expectations and helping students to meet this goal. Rewarding them for nothing in an effort to build self-esteem is sending the wrong message and molding students’ beliefs to be that you get something for nothing and that you don’t need to work hard for what you want. It is also robbing them of the development of intrinsic motivation. When I was a child, working hard for a good grade motivated me, and my self-esteem was built around small successes. True self-esteem doesn’t come from coddling, but rather achievement.

I love this blog! You write about things I think about ALL the time! (and I only have an 18 month old!)
When is that book of yours coming out so I can buy two copies? 🙂
One for me, and one for a giveaway on my blog because more people need to read about these things!

I actually like that show, Patricia, but I went WTF? at that too. It’s a playground. It’s for running around. Duh. Poor Pig.

Lara, re “I’ll help U w/things you can’t do” – right on. Reminds me of being on the playground w/my daughters when they’d ask me to lift them onto a climber or a tree. My response: If you need help getting up there, you shouldn’t be there. Wait ’til you can get up there on your own.

At one year of age, my daughter was climbing up to the top of the jungle gym; she had exquisite balance, and of course other parents were appalled. They would generally stand on the ground cajoling their kids to “Be careful [as if that ever had any effect]; you’re too high. Don’t go any higher!”. Was I afraid my daughter would fall? Yes. Was I willing to squelch her climbing instinct? No. I took my chances, and guess what? She never fell, but age age two, her sister was hanging from a bar and fell less than half a meter onto sand, and broke her leg! Was in traction for 11 days. Moral: Ya just gotta let ’em roll!

Lara, “No rock-throwing” reminds me of two of my pet parenting peeves: “OK?” and “please”. Could parents please lose “OK?”, as in, “Five minutes to bedtime. OK?” Why are you asking your kid’s permission? Anyway, what you’re really asking is, “Did you hear me, and do you agree?” Since when does Kid have to agree? Make it a statement: “Five minutes to bedtime, Cathy”. Then leave her alone for five minutes. Then put her to bed. Don’t worry, she’ll understand loud and clear. Have you ever had to say, “Now we’re going out for ice cream, honey. OK?”

Then there’s “Please stop hitting your sibling”. Does a police officer say, “Ma’am, please stop exceeding the speed limit”? “Please” precedes or follows a request; an admonition to play by the rules does not need “please”. It’s OK to give kids commands, i.e., “Stop hitting”. An order can be phrased, “I need you to take out the garbage sometime within the next five minutes”.

re self-esteem and other school programs, see the second half of my blog post [starts with the words ON ANOTHER SUBJECT: http://miriamerez.blogspot.com/2008/12/feminism-chivalry-and-applied-education.html

I heard a story a couple of years ago on NPR about those who were just out of college and entering the workforce (Generation x-y) expected so much praise, and when they didn’t get it or were criticized at work, would quit their jobs. Employers were having really high turnover rates. The story inverviewed several people who were consultants who worked with the EMPLOYERS, not the young EMPLOYEES, on how to use positive reinforcement in the workplace. Um, maybe I’ve had it wrong all these years, but shouldn’t that be the other way around?

My 2yo is just learning how to dress and undress himself (God, give me patience!). Really, even at this age he doesn ´t need me cheerleading arond. When he first managed to get his shoes on, he came to me laughing and shouting. THAT ´s self-esteem. What I do next is, well, not irrelevant, but it certainly has nothing to do with self-esteem but with self indulgence.
“Great! Now try with the coat” is much better than throwing a party and making him think he has done it all. Just keep going, keep up the good work and save the ceremonies and parties for

Hmm! Now I understand why many hopeful auditioners on American Idol, who truly believe they are the next Whitney Houston, react with self-righteous indignation when Simon tells them they are lousy singers (and they really are lousy singers).

BTW – Last night, I had my 9 year old daughter walk a friend home in the dark (no street lights). I gave her a battery operated lantern, and told her to watch out for cars.

She made it back in one piece (as she often does).

Our school district recently incorporated a “no fail” policy to “improve the children’s self esteem”. HUH? HOW can pushing a child ahead to the next grade level improve self-esteem IF that child can’t handle the work at that level because he/she couldn’t handle the work at the level before and wasn’t able to comprehend the work that is necessary to succeed at the next level? AND what does this teach the children who DO work hard for everything when the child beside them gets the same rewards by doing nothing? I am a former teacher, current homeschooler and I’ve seen children fail, pick themselves up, dust themselves off and continue along the path, stronger for having failed – be it on a project or a test or a complete grade. If these children are taught that they will succeed without trying or without learning, what does that do for our future of adults? Will they expect that promotion simply because they are there or will they work for that promotion? Raising a child’s self esteem is a good thing IF it’s done for the right reasons.

Sue: Would you let your children have ice cream for breakfast, lunch and dinner if they so desired? After all, you wouldn’t want them ‘buckling under authority’ by attempting to impose what you think they should eat over their own choices, would you?

I can understand that you don’t want children growing up to be easily-led sheep, but they also need to learn that as long as they live, there are going to be people telling them what they can or can’t do, so they might as well get used to it. Otherwise they’re going to grow up to be losers getting fired from one dead-end job after another, because “Nobody tells me what to do!”

When I was a Grad Student, and a teaching assistant, I taught a lab class (if I recall correctly, it was 3 hours a week for each group, with the first hour being a lecture and the following two hours being the lab). These were generally sophmore and junior engineering students. For one thing, many of them didn’t understand graphing. How did they get through high school? How did they get to be engineering students? And past their freshman year? Students would come in half an hour late to class. One time I just said: “look, I’m not here for my health – I’m here to try to help. If you don’t want to come to class, don’t come – it doesn’t matter to me. But if you do come, come on time because otherwise you are interrupting and causing problems for the other students who got here on time to try to learn”. The best part was that someone else walked in 10 minutes after my speech and the whole class burst out laughing, much to the late student’s dismay. Plus, there was rampant copying of work. I could go on.

Anyway, in my last semester one student was awful in terms of work done. He did not turn in 75% of his labs, and failed miserably on my open-book final exam. Even though I graded the class generously, I had to give him a D… which is technically still passing, note. I got a job out in the real world, and a few weeks after the new semester started I got a call from my old advisor who said that the student was complaining about his grade! I told him the story and said “look, if you want to increase his grade, be my guest, but he doesn’t even deserve the D”. I don’t know what actually happened after that, but some students who are paying for school feel entitled to good grades without work. They feel they are paying for a diploma rather than actually there to learn something.

Sue, I agree. That’s why, while I limited my kids’ TV viewing, I let a few shows “slip through the censor” and would wander in while they were watching and “edit”, i.e., say, “That character’s lying”, or “How many women do we know who actually look like that?”

In other words, I demonstrated critical viewing without actually having to sit with them and watch their mind-numbing garbage (as the parenting magazine’s advise — yeah, right. Like I have time to vet every movie release and watch TV with my kids).

Result? Today my 18-year-old criticizes Oprah for the hypocrisy of preaching helping the underprivileged while wearing $400 shoes; my 16-year-old is anti-TV; and my 12-year-old watches only Survivor. Not bad, huh?

“Self-esteem is reliance on one’s power to think… The man of authentic self-confidence is the man who relies on the judgment of his own mind.” — Ayn Rand

The problem is that there is little understanding of the difference between self-ESTEEM and self-RESPECT. The latter is a good well worth encouraging. The first is largely irrelevant to success and, if anything, probably has a negative correlation with success. They have developed tests to measure self-esteem, and I recall taking them as a kid in school. Studies have since shown that academically successful children tend to rank lower on self-esteem scales than academic failures do, and prisoners are shown to have the highest self-esteem of any set of people. I recall a university professor of mine saying this discovery was “surprising” and counterintuitive. I said it was not; it was quite obvious. If you don’t feel at all BAD when you fail (or do something wrong or stupid), why would you bother to strive to avoid failure (or something wrong or stupid)? If you feel great about yourself no matter what you do, why wouldn’t you take the easy route?

This is so true and there is one more element that poor kids of good looks have to suffer without any remedy.