Outrage of the Week: Mom Who Let Kids Play Outside Threatened by Cops

WTH? Mine play outside all the time, unattended, with the neighborhood kids. All of us parents take turns peeking out the windows from time to time and the older kids know to look out for the younger ones.

My suggestion, as someone who grew up in the Saddleback Valley: move. The crazy only gets crazier the longer you stay. :-p

I wish I had better suggestions, but I don’t. I really don’t think everywhere is like that, though…

~WOW~ I am speechless! I guess I shouldn’t be letting my kids (ages 8 &10) play outside anymore, esp. with the neighbor kids (ages 3 & 6)…even though we live in a smallish town, with big yards & a quiet street. I agree with what Karen posted– get in contact with local news & make a stink!! Good luck!

I have to say, my first response would be to report the cop to a supervisor.

Call and explain that the kids were a) inside a gated community while b) the mom was home and aware of their whereabouts and c) in the care of their oldest sibling who is old enough to work professionally as a mother’s helper/babysitter.

This is a perfectly normal, healthy thing for kids to do. I would complain about the cops behavior, say that I felt threatened and harassed, and ask the supervisor if I needed to fear any further mistreatment from my local police department or if he would address this issue with his employee. An employee whose salary I pay through my taxes in, I’m sure I don’t need to remind him, one of the safest cities in the country. An employee who the department maybe doesn’t need to keep on staff if they are so overstaffed they have the time to send a cop around to harass every parent who lets her healthy well-cared for children play outdoors.

I would take extensive, detailed notes during this conversation, and if it wasn’t totally satisfactory I would then take it to the local newspaper. Since it’s been featured here on a national blog, I’d also call a reporter at the LA Times and see if they were interested in covering it.

But I would start with assuming this was one bad apple on the police force getting his rocks off harassing someone he mistook for helpless, not official department policy.

I would not only file a complaint, but I’d call down to the station and ask to see the specific sections of the law that make it illegal to be out in the rain in pajamas, and illegal to play in a gated community. Obviously they won’t be able to do that. Then I’d suggest that they call the nosy neighbor and tell them to get a life since they seem to have vision problems and can’t tell the difference between a tshirt/sweats and pajamas.

I also like the media suggestion. Get it out in the open, it’ll embarrass the officers involved, and maybe they’ll get a clue.

While I agree with most of what is being said here, and that the police officer’s actions were quite heavyhanded, The one thing I would NOT do is play the “taxpayer” card. I’m sure Bernie Madoff and Jeffrey Dahmer paid taxes also.

I live in a very safe town where my kid are, fortunately, free to play outside without police interference – but we have a lot of bored cops who can be a little over zealous whenever any little bit of anything is going on, so this story doesn’t surprise me. I would definitely go into the police station and discuss the incident with them there, inquiring about specific laws this officer thought you might be violating and also about the alleged predators he mentioned. It’s certainly not his job to be threatening the parents of children with CPS involvement on the basis of his own very broad interpretation of the situation, and it seems to me that trying to scare this woman with tales of child predators isn’t an example of good police work either.

p.s. just to elaborate on that – if you are living in a gated community you are by definition surrounded by a bunch of hyper-paranoid freaks. What the heck else would you expect from such a community?

Go with the media/file a report route. That will give you the best results. However, DO IT NOW! The longer you wait the less effective it will be.

Sheesh! It’s a good thing they weren’t playing with a Hula-Hoop, or something dangerous like that

“I’d call down to the station and ask to see the specific sections of the law that make it illegal to be out in the rain in pajamas, and illegal to play in a gated community.”
Yes, I’d suggest utilizing whatever resources (library; internet) to research your State’s laws regarding what is & is not considered “endangerment.” I suggest that all Free-Range parents familiarize themselves/ourselves with these laws. You need to know your stuff in when you are inevitably confronted with the objections & “warnings” from the various Proponents of the Paranoid we all interact with in daily life, be they ill-informed law enforcement, nosy neighbors, or well-meaning friends & family members.

Wow! Thank you everyone for posting suggestions! I really enjoyed reading
all your responses! I feel so good there are people like me.

I usually get a lot of attention where I live because I have 5 kids ages 9,7,6,4,
and 2. It is very rare in CA to have 5 kids LOL.

I laughed at a few responses…especially the one regarding my family and I living in a gated community. I think gated communities are a marketing scheme. If someone really wanted to kidnap, rob, or do any other damage, they could easily follow the car in front of them, and come in. I did not move to this community because it was gated. We moved here because it is walking distance to my husband’s work, and our town is really big for our family.

From everything I gathered from you all, I should take this to OC Register, and take it from there.

Also I think some of you are right regarding our small town. Since the crime rate is really low, I think cops get bored and whenever they get a call, they get all excited. I have met a lot of awesome police officers where I live, so I don’t want to put the whole police force down. Outside our gated community is a busy street. I can see it clearly when I am on the 2nd and 3rd floor. A few times there has been a simple DUI car, and I am NOT exaggerating, there was once 7 police cars there! I was thinking, “If a person is drunk, is there really a need for 7 police cars?” A neighbor said her friend is a police officer in the city. He says at night there is nothing to do, so whenever a cop stops someone, all the cops stop to see what is going on.

I guess this is the price you have to pay living in a small safe town LOL!

This reminds me too much of the Alice’s Restaurant Massacree by Arlo Guthrie. This is based on actual events that happened to him circa 1965. For those who are not familiar, Arlo and his friend have just been arrested for dumping garbage. The action continues:

“I want tell you about the town of Stockbridge, Massachusets, where this happened here, they got three stop signs, two police officers, and one police car, but when we got to the Scene of the Crime there was five police officers and three police cars, being the biggest crime of the last fifty years, and everybody wanted to get in the newspaper story about it. And they was using up all kinds of cop equipment that they had hanging around the police officer’s station. They was taking plaster tire tracks, foot prints, dog smelling prints, and they took twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against us. Took pictures of the approach, the getaway, the northwest corner the southwest corner and that’s not to mention the aerial photography.”

I am curious to know what social services would actually say. I bet they could care less as the kids are well fed, dressed, “clean”, and have a place to live. Did you call the police department to report the officers? Sorta sounds a bit like harrassment on their part.

Based on this excellent conversation, I think there are four potentially useful approaches:
– Contact the gated community’s leadership (whatever that is). Express concern that you moved into the neighborhood thinking it would be welcoming and safe, and yet are being ratted on by neighbors. Ask if the community is designed for families or just for childless couples and singles. That may get their attention.
– Contact the police department, but don’t approach on the offensive. Instead, call to express concern about the purported danger from predators, which do not show up in the national registery. Ask for details of the predators. This is a honey-bait approach that will get you in the door and reveal that the officer was crossing a line (assuming there are no actual predators). Once there, you can expand the conversation to explain how violated and offended you were by his conduct and threats.
– Contact the OCR and suggest a story on this topic, with your situation as an example. The rising popularity of FreeRangeKids should be interesting to them.
– Contact Social Services for your area and ask their opinion of whether kids should be allowed to play outside.
Good luck!

Move to Australia. There are kids riding, walking jumping, skipping in the rain, hail & shine every day of the year in my town.
Appalling and STUPID. US authorities look a little silly to the rest of the world sometimes when dealing with ‘Free Range Incidents’ as i like to call them.
I honestly don’t know how you all cope.

You are right to be afraid.
DHS/CPS – the “child savers” are constantly on the prowl – to get more children into their system. The more children they can “take and place” the more money rolls in via federal funding.
This is a SICK SYSTEM … but NO ONE seems to be in any position to stop it – or do anything about it. From my experience – DHS has more power than God. So many people praying for the children – yet the system will not let them go home to family…
The fact that you have enough money to hire a lawyer – really means nothing. Families have spent tens of thousands of dollars – lost their homes and businesses – and still cannot extract their children from this system.
True – some people DO harm their children or put them in danger. BUT – The majority of the people whose lives are ruined by this agency – do not fall into that category.
google MONDALE ACT …
and be careful.

And therein lies the problem with gated communities. We start off being scared of people outside the gate, and soon we end up scared of people outside the front door. And banning the drying of laundry outside – oh, the horror!

It’s fun to think that the next generation will be able to rebel against us simply by being rational, calm, sensible, considerate, and good neighbours to each other.

I think I’m with the other commentors who suggest facing this one head on. Call the police station, call child services. Let them know that you’re not backing down on this one because you’re not doing ANYTHING wrong. Speak with the police chief and ask him to present you with documentation that states allowing children to play outside is child neglect. I’d be sorely tempted to find out what neighbour called them (I know, next to impossible to do). Do they have nothing better to do with their time?

wow. Unfortunately, this is an area of extreme Helicopter Parenting (my dad lives in Mission Viejo.) You have lots of good suggestions already, just wanted to add my support that you are NOT crazy or a bad parent. This mindset is one of the reasons we don’t live in SoCal anymore.

There is a detail being overlooked here. IT IS NOT ALLOWED TO RAIN IN ORANGE COUNTY, CA. Kidding aside, I think the rare occaision of rain in that locale causes some of its residents to think a rain shower is severe weather. Here in the midwest the kids go out in the yard during snowstorms (not whiteout blizzards).

I would retain a lawyer and mention 46 USC 1983 to the local police chief. Section 1983 is something cops know quite a bit about – it is the “violation of civil rights under color of law” statute and while it usually is prisoners suing for bogus stuff, this is a perfectly legitimate suit.

You have a civil right to let your children play in the rain if you desire and in the officer threatening you, that denies you your civil rights – he did it under color of law.

Maybe you can get a few $$$ out of the department, but most likely you will put the fear of God into them and you will leave you alone.

I haven’t seen all the responses, but i am wondering if this may be a case of your neighbor trying to get you to move. the cop was certainly out of order to mention SS, imho, but if you are in a predominently white neighborhood, maybe there is some cause to believe this is motivated by prejudice. i did not see anything in your letter to suggest that, so i apologize if i am bringing in a misplaced fear. i see so much of this in neighborhood disagreements, unfortunately. i hope you can find some peace, no matter what you decide to do. i would not live here i did not feel comfortable lettign my kids play outside.

are you allowed to put a fence up? i thik if that is what the cop is flinging at you, then the community should put one up or allow you to do so. if they allow kids there, they have to allow you all the freedom to use the common areas. good luck!

I used to live in that part of the country and agree with the other posters who call it helicopter parent central. Even the non-parents are in on the act, as you learned to your dismay.

Since your biggest concern is social services turning up at your door (cue scary music), I think you should contact them yourself. They are NOT a bunch of power-hungry sociopaths bent on removing your children from your home and feeding them to a heartless, money-generating system. Please. One of my children is severely disabled and we’ve had caseworkers and other representatives of social services in our home on a regular basis for years. These are some of the kindest, most selfless individuals I’ve ever encountered. They will know what the laws and your right are and, I’m certain, will reassure you that you are in NO danger of losing your children.

On the other hand, I agree with the posters who advised holding off on making a complaint to the police officer’s supervisor until you have all your information. You don’t want this person’s attention and anger fixed on you, especially if you’re still not sure what the exact laws are or what social services have to say.

I used to be a foster parent here in New Hampshire. In my experience, the kids we dealt with were truly troubled children, not taken from their families just because they were playing outside in the rain (This is the “Live Free or Die” state after all). The social workers I dealt with were reasonable people, but they had excessively large caseloads. I don’t know how things are in California, but if anything, the case were too busy to handle some of their legitimate cases effectively, and they were not about to take children away for frivolous reasons. Still, it’s a good idea to know your rights, and you might even want to consult an attorney.

This same kind of thing happened to me. A few years ago, my gifted, artistic 10 year old woke up one Sunday morning in November and decided she wanted to make an art project out of acorns. So, she put on her jeans and an orange striped shirt but no shoes or jacket and ran outside to collect acorns from a line of trees behind our townhouse unit. She came in after about 15 minutes.
About half an hour later, a cop rings my doorbell. He said a neighbor had reported that some retarded boy was wandering the neighborhood acting strangely. He described the ‘boy’ as being shoeless and wearing an orange shirt. At first, I didn’t know who they were talking about and said I didn’t see any weird boy in the vicinity. Then as he was leaving, I saw my daughter, with her short haircut and her orange shirt, and no shoes, standing in my doorway. Then it dawned on me that we have some sick, twisted neighbors.
When I asked her what she’d been up to, she burst into tears and shook. She said she was just gathering acorns and showed me the little pile she collected.
You know, I’ve lived here since she was four. The neighbors know her. She’s more intelligent that most of them will ever be. Why they called the cops on her I will never know. But it’s crap like this that has robbed her of her childhood and made me hate the suburbs and all the snooty people who live here with a white hot passion.
Lenore, you don’t even know the half of it. Mothers of other children have blacklisted her from social events and disinvited her from sleepovers. Why? Because she’s bright, unconventional, a confessed atheist (I’m not but she is). One mother from her former girl scout troop told me that the girl scout leaders didn’t like her because she was too artistic. How can that be a problem? Anyway, I’d love to move but she’s now in her teenage years and it’s harder to relocate her. But I really do hate these people and their fear, conformity and interference.

Read the book _Protecting the Gift_ by Gavin DeBecker. It is everything you need. It shows how we make our kids frightened and when they are frightened they cannot pay attention to their instincts. Insticts help us know when someone is talking too close, or getting too familiar or it is that “still small voice.”

Mr. DeBecker is a crime expert that has worked for several presidents. He said our kids are more likely to have a heart attack and die than be abducted. We are helicopter parents and our kids are not creative. They learn by playing, not by homework.

Trust me, this book is for you!

I agree that calling social services to find out what the law actually is might be a good idea. I am a social worker and have worked child protection intake (taking calls such as this on a regular basis). We don’t investigate kids playing outside! (or walking to school alone, or playing in the rain.) (Barring exceptional circumstances such as extremely young age, young children left alone overnight, outside unsupervised late at night etc!). Believe me, we barely had enough time to properly investigate and support where there was evidence of significant abuse and neglect.

Had police called me to report this I would have (politely) informed him that this is NOT a child protection issue, laughed my head off with the rest of the folks in the office once I was off the phone, and then suggested to my manager that we arrange to provide a child protection training day to the local police department.

Also, I have spent time in Alisa Viejo and I’m sure the neighbor and the police officer were in shock that any child was playing outside – this is a community of kids that are scheduled and supervised up to their eyeballs!

I like Mike’s ideas. You should go with those. They’ll put you at an advantage and get a clearer picturer of what happened. Also, they won’t automatically be on the defensive, backing up their own as soon as you open your mouth.
My kids play in the rain…in their underwear. They are 4 and 2. We live in the woods, but we do have neighbors. I don’t put sunblock on them every single time their skin is exposed to the sun. I go in the house while they’re in the backyard (away from the road and partially fenced in) if I need to use the bathroom or make lunch. And I’m okay with it. I am actually anxious about someone calling someone. We live near many mcMansions where school-age children reside. I never see them outside. Ever. It’s really sad that these pasty children will never know the wonder of fresh air. They don’t wait for the school bus like I used to…in the rain, sleet, snow, sun. They sit in mommy or daddy’s car, lined up with the rest of the parents and children, along the side of the road. Seriously? I am so glad I am homeschooling.

typo in my post.

end should be: into the community / per head.
Proceed with caution.

Also see: Child Protective Services: A Guide for Caseworkers published by the National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect.

One of the reasons I got out of CA. I see no problem in what you did.

Sorry for typo in my previous post.
You know, I still remember when cops were helping kids to cross the road, not to call their parents. I still remember cops helping kids to get back home if they are lost without threatening parents. I still remember how they kept eyes on *criminals*, not on kids. Now everything is reversed.

I think CA is ready for the bill. Bill of childhood rights. Something li this: “It is not illegal to play/walk/jump/ride a bike alone”

Something needs to be done on a state level. No more paranoia, obesity, loneliness and broken communities. Kids will grow up knowing their neighbors, they will become new generation of friendlier citizens and not become gatekeepers of sterilized suburban communities.

Shaylene, I think you did nothing wrong – and should try to continue to allow your children to do the things you know they are able to.

You might try the same tack as Lori, who was “told off” by an officer for letting her 9 year old walk to soccer. She got an apology from the Chief of Police. See Lenore’s post from March 18: http://freerangekids.wordpress.com/2009/03/18/a-mom-lets-her-son-walk-to-soccerand-the-police-come-calling/

It’s wise to check up what laws apply in your jurisdiction and if there are any rules for your community about kids. On the community rules though, I would avoid the suggestion to get some adopted if they don’t exist. You do not want your community to dictate how you can look after your kids (even if the rules start out being exactly what you want). If there are rules try and get them removed, not approved!

I like the idea of contacting social services to start a conversation that isn’t instigated by someone reporting you. Not sure how they would take it though – I understand the departments are incredibly busy, so it might be more hassle to get someone to talk to you than it’s worth.

Best of luck, do remember that police are no different from other people. Sometimes they’re bad at their jobs. Sometimes they’re having a bad day and just taking a short cut. Sometimes they are genuinely mistaken about something. Don’t assume every contact is going to be like this. If this isn’t the first time your kids have been outside on their own, just remember the times you let them live real lives and you weren’t subjected to these ridiculous complaints.

I enjoyed reading everyone’s responses. Some of you asked me about my ethnice background, and wondered if that has a play. I honestly do not think it does because I realize more and more people around here are overly paranoid. I am a Muslim convert (yes, I wear a headscarf), and my husband is Indian. My experiences in OC has been good for the most part. Since most people are white, they think it is fascinating to see our kids who look different.

However, I feel the need to tell you all one more thing. This is NOT the first time the cops have been called on my family. Two years ago, my husband took 3 of our kids at the town center in our city. My 3 year old son was trying to run in the street. My husband took him by the hand, and put him on the bench. My son kept trying to get up, and my husband kept forcing him to stay on the bench because obviously he did not want our 3 year old to get hit by a car! Someone called the police saying my husband was “playing (yes, they used the word playing) too rough with my son.” The cops approached my husband, and wondered if my son was even his because he has blond hair. Fortunately, the police officers were on my husband’s side. The officer said, “I am from New York, and people here (in Aliso Viejo) are very nosy, and they call for everything!” The officer told my husband if his kid was behaving like ours, he would spank him LOL. Someone also called the AV police dept because someone had their baby outside without a hat on. (It NEVER gets that cold during the day in the OC!)

I have lived in Aliso Viejo for 6 years, and I always tell my husband when we are in public we should always smile, so people will not think we are a ‘weird’ Muslim’ family. I have always been active in the community. I was president of a MOMS Club, and I have been involved in our Muslim community as well. Now I am in the process of becoming a public speaker for Islam. Even though I have enjoyed living in the OC, I have always felt like I need to defend Islam and my family. People get “surprised” when I tell them my husband cooks for us, takes all the kids out so I can take a nap, and takes care of the kids when I go out with my friends on the weekends until 1am or so. They are surprised because they believe Muslim women stay home all day and is a slave because of what the media shows on TV. I think my experience would be like that anywhere we lived, not just the OC.

Thanks again for all your responses. It is nice to know there are lots of parents who use their common sense!

I think that this mom should call the police station with the cop’s name and badge number, tell them the story, and ask some questions about her rights as a parent.

That cop probably meant well, but if he’s making up information about predators nearby and threatening you with legal action, then that’s an abuse of power and harassment as well.

I’m of the opinion that the best defense when attacked is to be the first one to tell the story of what happened so that it doesn’t get skewed during its travels through the grapevine. With that in mind, I think I’d also call the paper as Karen, at the top of the comments, suggested.

“You might consider not singling out the officer responsible; that could make him and his buddies defensive and more likely to look for reasons to run you in. (That’s just human nature.)”

—-

Thats NOT ‘human nature’, that’s the behavior of bullying children who didn’t get their own way. Don’t try and preemptively apologise for the officers future actions. If he follows that course then he is just a childish bully who should grow the heck up.

Okay, I apologize if someone has already said this. It REALLY fries my butt that they’ll call CPS for a few well cared for, well fed children, but if some kid is being GENUINELY abused? Yeah, they pretty much can’t be bothered. See…. children have to have the stuffing beat out of them REPEATEDLY for CPS to do ANYTHING. And since we’re on the topic of molestation, the abuse has long since happened before they’ll even be bothered to step in.

I might hire a lawyer, personally. Not for long, mind you, but long enough to write a letter to the PD telling them that if they DO pick up your children and put them into the foster care system, they will have a HUGE lawsuit on their hands, since you were in no way breaking the law, and your children were at no time in danger.

Perhaps threat of a lawsuit might be enough. I know it’s hardball, but it will probably make them back off.

@Penny Piper – you are right. The Agency shows no discernment. Children who are actually – REALLY in danger – either at the hands of their paid care providres – or their own parents — go unnoticed — while the caseworkers persue the families that for one reason or another they “don’t like” … This is so very sad – both for the children who are abused / and for the chidlren yanked from their families – just because the caseworks “can.”

The system is a MESS. It is so dysfunctional. While “public opinion” would certainly indicate that it would be common sense to call in DHS or CPS — I cannot tell you strongly enough. This agency is out for itself — “for the good of the children” is a nice sounding intention from a press release. The only “for the good of” that takes place – is for the good of the Agency’s employees… Children take a back seat to job security – and federal funding dollars rolling in – based on the head count of children taken and placed.

Be very careful.

I had a similar situation, and I wrote to Lenore to vent about it. My 5yo plays outside and someone has called SS twice about it. Both times, they came (as they are required to do) and both times they left satisfied that all was well.

We live in a row house (mid-terrace is the term in Britain) that is set up from the street. That is to say, there’s the street, a sidewalk, then a flight of steps up to another sidewalk that runs along the front of our row of houses. Two doors to our right is a playground (also set up from the street and connected to our sidewalk.) My five-year-old may play on our raised sidewalk and in the playground. He may not go down the stairs, on the stairs, or beyond the playground. There are always lots of kids on the playground. He obeys this rule. How do I know? Because I have told all the neighborhood children that if they catch him outside the boundaries and they come and tell me so that I catch him, they will get £1. He once strayed (it was an area that was sort of ambiguous and so he wasn’t really to blame) and I paid the kid his money so that they’d all know I was good for my word.

I am irritated that somebody thinks they need to call the authorities, but I know that they won’t make anything of it – like I said, they were satisfied that I was a good mom. It’s just annoying to be judged by some unseen neighbor.

Even Barney Fife, who loved to hand out tickets for jaywalking and was the most over-zealous cop in TV history didn’t flinch when Andy let Opie run all over Mayberry unsupervised. It was pretty much standard practice in the 60s for kids to entertain themselves. Too bad a kid can’t play in his own neighborhood anymore.

I’d also be sure to use the word “harassment” in there somewhere. That tends to get quick attention.

Media AND supervisor. Definitely the way to go.

Several posters have asked the question that is the Holy Grail of free range: what does THE LAW say about how old a child must be before reduced supervision is appropriate?

Lenore could likely provide a more precise overview of this than I can. My understanding is that the various state and local laws are ambiguous, subjective, or silent on the issue. There is no “bright-line” specific age that is accepted. In many areas kids have to demonstrate “adequate maturity” or something like that before they can be left partially alone.

Because of that ambiguity, I have always assumed that the WORST case age scenario is [the child’s age past which I am no longer eligible for exemption from jury duty by virtue of being a single custodial parent]. In other words, no Court COULD EVER tell me that my child is too young to play outside if the Court is simultaneously telling me that the child is old enough to remain unsupervised for days at a time when I’m compelled to serve.

Well, here’s where I got a Monday morning shock: for most of my daughter’s life, that magical age was TEN. Ten was the de facto age at which the Court considered that the child was self-governing (within limits). I memorized this because you don’t screw around with jury duty – if you claim an exemption and it is discovered you did so in error, you’re in contempt of Court. Not good.

Except I just re-checked one of our local Court websites, and I see that the age has recently been raised to FIFTEEN!! Dang, I have now lost that particular potential free-range defense!!

Anyway, check your local Court systems for precedent. It won’t provide you with an age number that will make you “safe” from cops or CPS, but it might provide a point of perspective.

http://www.hcdistrictclerk.com/common/juror/general_info.aspx?Panel=divTitExemp

Thanks!
Alison

I think what’s just as important as complaining about the overreaction from the police is to find out who made the complaint in the first place.

The police can only act on the information they get in a complaint, so who knows how bad this neighbour made the situation seem, and what he/she will say next time.

If you do go to the press, try to put the emphasis of the article not on the police reaction, but on the fact that you have a wacko neighbour who made the complaint in the first place. That should shame the neighbour into respecting your privacy.

This requires immediate confrontational response. Go to police headquarters (with a friend as a witness) and demand to see the police officer’s report on his contact with you. Demand an explanation. Go to the local media.
Also I suspect that since this is a gated community (a truly evil perversion of American egalitarianism) most of the people are white, some are bigots, and there might be be a racial component to this.

I guess I’m not surprised by the comments about Aliso Viejo. In 2004, the city came close to banning water as a result of a hoax (DHMO, or dihydrogen monoxide, is a valid but rarely used chemical name for water):

In March 2004 the California municipality of Aliso Viejo (a suburb in Orange County) came within a cat’s whisker of falling for this hoax after a paralegal there convinced city officials of the danger posed by this chemical. The leg-pull got so far as a vote’s having been scheduled for the City Council on a proposed law that would have banned the use of foam containers at city-sponsored events because (among other things) they were made with DHMO, a substance that could “threaten human health and safety.”

My husband is from India (a Catholic). Our children are not dark or clearly olive-skinned (although, they both have the ability to get a good tan going, if they want 😉 So, sorry to disappoint you folks – genetics are not always a clear-cut case of “brown is dominant. ”

I have a 2.5 yo and a newly-minted 4yo. We let them have free roam in our fenced in back yard – they are allowed to go in and out all day long, if they want.. We do let them play in the front, near the house, but with more supervision and are pretty strict on letting the 2.5 yo not play in front too much without us out there. However, the 4 yo is allowed to play out there without us specifically by his side. We can keep a good eye on him because of how our house is situated. AND, he has clear rules that they are NOT to leave our yard.

Do not even get me started on playing in the rain – we have some of the best puddles in the neighborhood. There was one long, rainy day when they went through FOUR changes of clothes.

Yep, it is just a matter of time before someone calls the cops on us. I know that and accept that yet cannot feel helpless that I would be doing my kid a disservice by NOT allowing him to go outside. It is very frustrating to not be allowed to parent MY child the best way I see fit.

I should have seen it coming from the very beginning when we decided to co-sleep and THAT was met with all sorts of objections.

I don’t know if others have made these suggestions, as there are many comments here, but I would suggest that you or your husband request a clarification from your local police department. After all, an officer showed up at your door, told you you were endangering your kids, and said he would commence some kind of police action if you were to allow them outside again unattended by an adult.

What in the world does this mean? What law is the basis for his statements to you? How are you endangering your children?

And, just as importantly, what does his statement about ‘predators’ really mean? Have there been recent problems in your area? Of what nature, and how many? What have the police done to apprehend the ‘predator’, and were they successful?

It seems to me that this officer has opened a very big ‘can of worms’ and that you deserve some answers to some important questions.

Another suggestion that I have would be to get to know–if you don’t–your neighbors. Who might be doing the calling to the police? Can you find this out, and meet this person, and possibly–perhaps–calm his or her fears (assuming fear is what triggered the call)? Can you meet like-minded parents in the community, and have your kids play together outside?

Could you perhaps take things even farther, and organize a community meeting with representatives from the police to discuss issues of safety and child freedom in your area?

Group action is probably the most effective way to tackle a situation like this, and, as one can see from reading this blog, other similar issues as well.

Good luck.

The “American Dream” has become a waking nightmare.

Many already suggested this, but did you get the badge number/id of the police officer – or name? I would ask his superior officer exactly what law you were breaking and where is it written that children cannot play outside. Seriously, he is probably a well meaning person (although the busybody in your complex probably isn’t) but he cannot enforce a law that does not exist. It depends on how many feathers you want to ruffle, but to me it sounds like you have a neighbor who doesn’t like kids.

Peter,

The DHMO site is not a hoax but a teaching tool. I think it was a very innovative science fair project, that has had long reaching effects on teaching about checking your information. I use it every year with my kids (4th and 5th graders). Nathan Zohner, was a very clever 14 yo, I hope he has continued to be as clever and successful as an adult.

Now an adult not only believing the site, but trying to get a law past and getting through almost all the checks and balances that is sad. Maybe the entire government of Aliso Viejo needs to resign until they learn how to think.

From http://www.snopes.com/science/dhmo.asp

Sheerluck,

If you actually bother reading the site instead of just trolling it, you’ll learn just how wrong you are.

Leonard, LL–it would be interesting if we ever find out that the person who called the cops in this case–anonymously–turned out to be…(gasp!)…another person of color! What would be YOUR reaction to that?

Ans as for the idea that people on gated communities are primarily white and “racist”: Sounds like you two are the racists here. Go find a KKK website to espouse your sick views–NOT HERE!

I would definitely call the higher officer in the police headquarters. We had an incident at a State Park wherein a ranger was telling my kids they had to get out of the tree because “they might get hurt”. I told the kids to stay up there. He told them to get down. I told them again to stay up there that I was in charge of them,not him. (they freak out when I do this but get excited too and I can only hope they’re learning how to question authority) And I told the ranger I was there to patrol their safety and thanks for his input but no thanks. He then told me it was “a rule”. I called the headquarters and, guess what? No rule in place at all like that. Only one tree was forbidden from climbing and that’s because it was a heritage tree.

Shaylene –

Never mind the Register – call Gustavo Arrilanio at the OC Weekly. He’d have fun with this.

Wow. That’s insane! I let my kids play outside all the time by themselves. They are 6, 5, and 3. The 3yo can’t go out by herself, but one of the others has to be with her. But even she knows not to go in the street. We are not in a gated community, by any means, and a semi-urban area. The kids run around our neighborhood all the time, ours stay within sight of our house. But the funny thing is, police pass through the neighborhood at random everyday, they’ve seen the kids playing outside by themselves, and never once have they stopped to question them or me.

Definitely call the station and report this, and I would followup with a letter to the local paper if the outcome is not satisfactory.

Sounds to me like:

One, somebody in the community was upset that the kids were feeding a stray cat (that’s for another blog).

and/or

Two, somebody was upset that there were *children* wandering around their nice, quiet, peaceful community.

Never mind the Register — call Gustavo Arrilanio at the OC Weekly. He’d have fun with this.

It’s Gustavo Arellano and yes, brilliant idea!

Ah, Orange County and CPS!
When my son was small we lived in a city there. One day he received a small cut on the back of his foot from a metal dustpan I’d tossed aside. I could have cleaned it up and bandaged it in under five minutes. But my wife insisted on a visit to the hospital.
While I stayed with our son and watched a physician’s assistant put in two small stitches that she said were not really necessary, and covered them with a Band-Aid, my wife was interviewed by a hospital social worker The hospital billed $125 for the 10 minutes in ER, and a private doctor who was not on duty that Sunday sent a separate bill for the same amount, including $5 for the Band-Aid.
The next day a worker from CPS arrived at our door, acting on a report from the hospital SW. I answered her questions, then she took our son aside where he told her th same thing; it was an accident. Then she talke to my wife, who told her the hospital SW tried to get her to say I had attacked our son, and had suggested that she should divorce me for violence.
The visitor then told us that based on all she had learned no further action would be forthcoming and the case would be closed.
But within days I was notified by the field worker’s supervisor that my name was being placed on a state list of child abusers, and that I would be subject to arrest, and our son would be taken from us on any further reports.
It took an attorney a year to have my name removed from that list.
Be wary of calling CPS.

@ Li – What can I say? I’m a gabacho that can’t spell, but I emailed The Mexican as soon as I posted the above and heard back from him this morning. He’s on the case. (For those of you who don’t know what Li and I are talking about, the nationally syndicated “Ask A Mexican!” column in quite a few free weeklys or on the internet is a “Free Range Kids”-level breath of fresh air, common sense, education and entertainment. Also, it will do wonders for your vocabulary of vulgar Spanglish phrases.) I was responsibile for the “What’s the deal with Mexicans and leafblowers?” and “How come Mexicans drink that Bud Light swill instead of Tecate?” questions.

Viva La Reconquesta, chinga Lou Dobbs!

Viva La Reconquesta, chinga Lou Dobbs!

lololol!!

“Google before you open your racism-denying mouths, for god sake! This shit happens CONSTANTLY”

Yes, this shit happens. What also happens, and perhaps even more constantly, is the knee-jerk assignment of racist motives in any and every incident involving a non-white person, before any actual facts are obtained.

I didn’t deny the existence of racism in America; rather, I suggested that people should perhaps not leap to the conclusion that the caller’s motives were racist based on no other shred of evidence than that the incident happened to involve half-Indian children.

Im a 28 year old man with no kids and this is my opinion… Growing up in a gated community for several years as a child I think that it should go without saying that people choose to live in gated communities for reasons, weather it is because of safety & security or because of the astetic value of the property. I for one think that its great that kids want to play outside instead of sitting in front of a tv and a playstation. My one suggestion that I could have is to make sure that you have an eye on your kids and you are always within sight and or earshot of them. It sucks that someone would notify athourities instead of letting kids be kids…

word “social services” => words “social services”

In this day and age, even the worst thing can happen in a gated community. Living there just adds a layer of protection, but not a guarantee. God forbid someone tried to take your six year old child, how could a nine year old fight off the predator. This isn’t Mayberry, and as much as we’d like to have our kids live the same type of life we had growing up. Maybe you should be bugging your crappy neighbors instead of the person doing his job.

Looks like it made the OC Register – http://www.ocregister.com/news/kids-224463-let-police.html

Perhaps folks could go there and counter the two paranoid mom comments?

Yes, I can’t believe it, but my story is on the OC Register blog. I am a little nervous because I do not completely trust newspapers! I am hoping they do not destroy me and my family’s name. The reporter contacted the police dept, and is waiting for their side of the story. Please pray for me! I want this article to be positive, not negative regarding my family and I!

OK – stay.

Let these people who don’t know what they are talking about – advise you to stay. Lose your children – and pay tens of thousands of dollars trying to get them back.

Voice of experience here…. I am certain that if MY son had moved his family – my grandsons would still be with family – and able to visit their grandomother and play in the ocean. Once DHS gets their hands on your family members – they are GONE.

Don’t listen to me – I have directly experienced life at the hands of The Agency…..

About two months ago I saw this boy (maybe 7 or 8) riding his bike in our neighborhood. I’d never seen him before. Anyways, he took a pretty nasty fall and bent the front wheel on his bike. He had a helmet on but I could see from my window that he was bleeding from his mouth.

Well as this boy sat there crying with his broken bike bleeding from the mouth, I thought to myself maybe he needs a little help so I sprang into action. He had a pretty nasty cut on his chin and I could see he was bleeding from his mouth as well. Who here hasn’t had that scenario somewhere in their past, kids will always be kids.

I came to find out he lived only a couple blocks away, not far. He couldn’t ride his bike home because of the bent front wheel. He called his mom at work but she couldn’t get off early and I couldn’t stay with him until she did. I was thinking about driving him home myself but his bike wouldn’t fit in my car, not to mention the risk of blood stains.

After reading all your comments, I feel much better knowing I made the right decision that day. I always wondered if I should have called the fire department to maybe help stop the bleeding or the police who maybe could have taken him home. Nope, I told him that this sort of thing sometimes happens in life and suggested he get home before the police see him and arrest his parents for child neglect.

When he’s older I’m sure he’ll have fond happy memories of the lady who watched him walk away crying with a bloody mouth and broken bike. It kind of brings a tear of joy to your eye, doesn’t it. And now that I think about it, his mother never came by to say thanks. What a bitch!!!

Angry?

No, sweetheart, I simply do not suffer fools, and I’ve seen few fools as obnoxious as you are.

“Apparently – this is the goal – to take children and turn them into soldiers at age 18 when the state can no longer receive funding money based on having them in foster care.”

Okay, you’re officially a nutbag.

Seriously – CPS is stealing innocent children from their innocent families to turn them into soldiers? This is what you actually believe? Yeah, I’m starting to see why nobody wants you to have access to children.

I grew up in that area and am very familiar with it, so the thought of Aliso Viejo being at all dangerous actually made me laugh. I really have no suggestions for you, but you are very much not crazy. Also, it’s really pretty warm there, so being outside in a t-shirt and sweat pants would probably be just fine. One year in junior high I wore shorts the entire winter just to make a statement, and I don’t think anyone turned my parents into CPS.

i run out in the rain in my pajamas…as long as your not KICKING them out! you can take him to court or file him

Hello, I must say that I have not read all the responses, but Id like to chime in. I am a Police Officer, and have been for 25 years in the “LA” area. I live in the OC now and have for the past 15 years. I dont live that far from you actually. I wouldnt condem the officers just yet. Many time officers are just the tool people use to get at neighbors whom they dont like. Especially in a “complex” like you are describing. I lived in a very nice complex in Garden Grove for years, I moved out because of all the political garbage that homeowners association come with. As I am an officer fo the law, I know quite a bit about parking and traffic laws. My car was illegally towed three times the first year by the association president. All three times, I sued the board in small claims and won. They were so used to bullying residents around unchallenged untill they messed with me. Anyway, just trying to describe that I understand first hand how CC&R’s can be. As an officer OR as a citizen, anyone can call CPS on you. Many times when an officer threatens to call CPS, its not coming from the officer, but from a higher source. maybe a complaint from the Association board where you live, maybe from a citizen or neighbor that has a friend at city hall or on the county board. If you live where you say you do, trust me, what you described your children are doing is not going to worry officers on patrol, they are most likley being directed to you from a complaint. I as an officer responding to a specific complaint would most likley do the same as your officers did. I’d take names and info to prove i was there and whom I spoke to. I’d advise the parents of the dangers of “Preadators”, to cover my rear since the kids are running about(even though theres not really a chance anything might happen, but what if something happened to one of your kids and the officer didnt warn you? then the officer would be blamed for not informing you of possible dangers even as remotely as it seems to you at the time). In my 25 years on the department, I have been blamed for so many things, many in which have begun in a situation as what seems so unusual as yours. Today, to keep from being blamed for, well, everything, officers do as much warnig, advising and even go so far as threatening actions to get the point across and cover themselvs should the worst actually come out of a complaint situation. Its crazy, but in this lawsuit happy world we live in, it must be done. also, let us not forget, officers didnt just find your kids, they told you they were there on a complaint. I would go looking at your homeowners association or unfriendly neighbors before blaming the cops. Trust me, no hard working street cop wants to be knocking on your door about kids in a complex playing with a cat. Most would rather be out there keeping your city on that top safest cities to live in list. It didnt get that way by cops calling CPS on good families, it got that way by brave men and women out doing the dirty work most civilized people dont have the heart, courage or stomach for….Taking out the real trash, solving real crimes. I hope you havent been soured on your experience with the police, its a tough job and I would never recommend any of my children to follow in my footsteps. I do hope you stay and raise you kids in the fine US of A. Maybe do as I did. Move out fo the complex. People specifically move in to complexes because they want strict absolute compliance in their lives. Your kids are probably fine, but the hermits that sometimes inhabit complexes dont know that so if they see them out, they assume shenanigans is in order and the police they do call! Have a great new year! Angel

“Aliso Viejo isn’t as safe as you think.”

Anthony, would you care to elaborate?

At all?

That’s absurb. Even kid should have freedom to go outside and play. Police should know that parents will not allow their children to go outside without their permission, and do anything that will harm anyone.

FACT: A child (14 or under) is 40 times as likely to die in a car accident as they are from an abduction. There were over 1,500 traffic fatalities in 2005 (NHTSA) and about 46 abduction deaths (USDOJ). There are over 200K traffic injuries to children each year.

Believe it or not, your child is in far more danger sitting in your car with her or his car seat and seat belt and with you driving than s/he is walking the streets alone, period. You put your child in your car and drive off without a second thought, right? So why then are so many people so paranoid about a child walking or bicycling down the street alone?

Not every child is mature enough to be on her or his own. I am not suggesting that you allow an infant out of our sight. What I am suggesting is that stranger abductions and child murders do occur and that they are tragic and horrifying… and that they make the national news precisely because they are so rare. This is cold comfort to the parents, but the fact remains that their children were violated under circumstances that are vastly safer than many daily activities we take for granted. In the end, life is risky and it is both ludicrous to think that we can eliminate all risk and pointless to think that we have anything resembling control. All we can do is take steps to make sure that the risks are minimized as much as possible.

Logan is about 8.5 years old. He always rides in a booster seat with a seatbelt. On his bicycle or skateboard, he always wears a helmet (correctly, not pushed back on the head where it does zero good). He carries a cell phone with both a GPS locator and all of the contacts he needs on speed dial. He knows both of his home addresses and contact phone numbers by heart. He knows how to cross streets safely, what to do about strangers, where to go for help, what to do if we get separated on the bus or subway, where to get off the subway, etc. etc. etc. His mom, step-mom, and I continue to invest a lot of time and effort training him to fend for himself.

Today, I sent Logan to the laundry ONE BLOCK away. He had to cross two streets, each with 4-way stops. He knows how to use the change machine, the soap machine, the washers, the dryers, what settings to use, etc. etc. He put his clothes in a sack and off he went.

A few minutes later, he comes home and tells me that there are officers downstairs who want to talk to me. I come downstairs and two officers tell me they got multiple calls about a little child out alone (oh, the horror!) Had Logan misbehaved? No. had anything bad happened? No. Just OH MY GOD THERE IS A CHILD WALKING DOWN THE STREET, OH NO, OH GOD, HELP, HELP!!!

I explained to the officers that I am aware of now law that sets a minimum age for a child to be out and about, that I have reviewed the sex offender database and there are none in our immediate area, and recite the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT STATISTICS on walking-down-street versus being-in-car safety. To which they say, “Oh but criminals don’t check stats.” To which I respond, “Well then you’d best pull over every single car with a child in it.” They talk about the kid in Oregon who vanished, Kevin Collins, etc. to which I reply, “Those are horrible tragedies but they made the national news precisely because they are so rare. If airplanes crashed every day we would not hear about them any more but that would not make flying safe.” To which they sputtered something about having to go research the law, to which I replied, “If I am violating some law that I am not aware of then please do tell me, otherwise I am not doing anything wrong.” They said OK and left.

The bottom line is that a child outdoors today is FAR SAFER than when we were kids and our parents sent us off on buses, to playgrounds, etc. on our own.

I have taught my son that the world is a fundamentally good place. Most of the people he meets are not out to hurt him and most will gladly lend a helping hand if needed. He should be able to go up and talk to anyone (within reason) without fear. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES is he to accept a ride or go ANYWHERE with a person who is not police, firefighter, etc. He has the right to yell and scream and run away and defend himself. He does not have to follow directions just because he is a kid and someone is an adult.

Logan later told me that THREE police cars responded and that the first officer told him to “Stay where you are” and started barraging him with questions. What the hell? Seriously? Really?

Some months ago, I was sitting at the playground reading a book. Not talking to anyone, not doing anything, just… reading a book. Logan was off playing. SIX police officers come up to me and say they got a complaint of an “adult at the playground without a kid.” I had to find Logan, they asked him who I was, etc. etc. For not watching my son with binoculars!!

Contrast that with a time I was at a different playground, on private property. I was on the phone while Logan played. A security guard approached and waved at me. I put the phone down and greeted him. He said, “Excuse me, Sir, sorry to bother you, but which kid is yours?” I pointed to Logan and he said, “OK, thanks, just checking!” smiled and walked off.

That’s reasonable. The person who called the cops could have taken the initiative to simple ask Logan if all was well. I think one cop can handle an 8 year old boy. It’s OK to ask questions and to check on someone. These bullshit paranoid histrionics are uncalled for.

I refuse to succumb to this fear and I refuse to let paranoid assholes get the better of me. If something happens to Logan while he out alone, I will be devastated… but I will NEVER second-guess the logic of sending him out alone, under carefully planned and monitored circumstances.

Land of the free, and the home of the brave, MY ASS!

I grew up in Queens, New York in the 1960s. At the age of eight I was walking five blocks by myself and taking a city bus almost a mile to school every day. By age ten, I was taking the subway by myself to visit my aunt in Washington Heights (upper Manhattan, a one-hour subway ride). No one ever stopped me and asked me where my mother was, and the police never came to my door telling my mother she was a lousy parent. It simply wasn’t a big deal. And I wasn’t alone.

I have to admit, I’d have a hard time letting my daughters do the same thing today, but it’s more because of society’s paranoia that has gotten burned into my psyche, than because I honestly believe something might actually happen to them. The same mother who once allowed me to do all those things would now not permit my cousin’s 12-year-old daughter to go to the restroom by herself in a family restaurant.

Yes, there are predators around, but they have always been there. We just hear about them more these days. I went to a Catholic school, and priests were molesting little boys back then. I never had it happen to me, nor heard anything about it back then. Jack the Ripper was killing people in the 1880s too, so that kind of thing has always been around.

We as a society have shut ourselves up in a cocoon, pretending that we have protected ourselves from any and all dangers, and then we are shocked and outraged when one incident happens to shatter the illusion. In the meantime, tens of millions of children across the country go out to play or to school and come home safely every day, but we don’t think about that.

The same thing is true, whether we’re talking about child predators, terrorists, or offshore oil rigs (and I’m not a “drill baby drill” advocate).

So lock yourself in a gated community, arm yourself to the teeth, buy an electric car and charge it off your solar array (I actually want to do that one), hose your kids down with DEET every time they go out to keep them safe from encephalitis, and guess what, the earth will probably be hit by an asteroid and wipe us all out anyway. It happened to the dinosaurs, and they didn’t have to deal with child molesters or religious fanatics.

I agree with the people who are saying, fight back. Get his name and badge number and call his supervisor. Lenore’s story a Christmas call from the train nazis wound up with an official apology, if I remember correctly.

hello they are not respecting your rights i homeschool my kids and my youngest i can’t keep at home he loves going out to play especially with four year olds hes only 13 and i took him out in 1st grade, he still can’t add well but hey he can read, well i do my homeschooling in my time people just don’t get it do they sometimes in winter he has no shoes on at all so what and we drop him off at church and come home great babysitting! well both our daughters got preggy early about 17 so you can tell we did a good job parenting good luck
I am tired of people saying I dont homeschool when i do, i have the books out on the table ready if deefax shows up so it looks good. ; )

so…in aliso viejo, just this past weekend, a child was abducted from his garage. his mom had buckled him into the car seat, she ran in to grab something, and within a minute, a man had jumped in the car and took off with the child.

cops were swarming our neighborhood all day. they caught the guy (thank GOD!), but obviously, we’re all a bit shaken. turns out the perpetrator was just released from prison a few days prior, and his girlfriend seemed to be casing the neighborhood.

please be careful, even in there aren’t any offenders directly in your area.

What the police did was an absolute infringment on Shaylene’s civil rights. 30 years ago kids of those ages could go about an no one would say anything. America is definitely NOT more dangerous than 30 years ago. I think there should be a petition. Child Services should be called if parents are ABUSING their children, not if they’re parenting more old fashioned-like, like letting you kid go outside for goodness sake! Someome should also remind those officers that this is American and not a police state.

What Karen said (first letter). I will guarantee you that a feature writer at the local paper would LOVE a story like this. Contact the reporter directly via her/his email.

Hi, Charla.

I have been a web developer for the past 12 years. I’m not familiar with BlogEngine.net, but I have worked with .net on one site, and with Classic ASP on a number of sites.

I do all of my new development work in PHP, and we use WordPress for our blog sites. It’s a stable platform, and the latest versions especially have been quite robust, with many third-party add-ons, so I don’t see a reason to switch. My own recommendation would be, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.