Readers, you won’t believe what just happened! Oh, the poor parents! The poor child! The poor…viewers of ABC15!
MESA, zeekkyektf
AZ – Police in Mesa are investigating an incident where a man made contact with a child at a Walmart store.
Pause to start counting how many times they use the word incident, and my rule of thumb when it comes to that word.*
According to police, the incident happened shortly before 9 p.m. at a store near State Route 87 and Baseline Road.
Police said a 3-year-old child was sitting in a shopping cart while the child’s family members unloaded groceries nearby.
A man dressed as a woman made verbal contact with the toddler, police said. There was no physical contact.
The family approached the man as he left. Police aren’t sure what the man told the toddler, but they are investigating it.
They are calling this incident suspicious.
*Anytime you read the word “incident” you can substitute the word “non-incident” and it means the same thing. (Except then you can’t run it as a news story.)
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60 Comments
The media will stop at nothing to sensationalize a non-story, always for the ratings. I would love to ask these idiots who presented this “incident” what they think should happen to the stranger, given that he/she did NOTHING wrong. I would ask them: Is it a crime to talk to someone who happens to be in your vicinity? Did the stranger in any way harm the child? Should the police have been called? Of course, the answer is no to all these questions.
One more thing: how in the hell did this non-story make it on television? Did the parents call WABC15? So many questions, so few answers!
How ludicrous! It would be a story if the stranger actually SAID something suspicious, such as “Hi cutie, you will make an excellent addition to my child trafficking ring. Come with me now…”
Otherwise, simply greeting a child — perhaps to entertain them while Mom is busy with groceries — is at best a favor and at worst a mere social grace.
They said the man was dressed as a woman but that doesn’t matter (not that any of the situation matters). I’m willing to bet it’s good old fashioned transphobia. So dumb. If somebody approached my three year old (okay she’s four) the only thing I would expect out of the situation would be that my child would be polite and say hello back. Because, yeah, I’m willing to bet that’s the conversation that took place. Also if the police aren’t sure about what was said to the toddler, they should ask the toddler. Not that I understand why the police were called in the first place.
“It could involve a store full of shoppers”.
I think they are right. It was dangerous.
There were so many adult shoppers there, who could have potentially judged each other for no apparent reason and cause great emotional and financial distress to each other, while also wasting important limited public resources (police, and media. Emmm… Actually media is not a limited resource. And not that important).
Again, I need to correct myself, not ‘potentially’ but – they actually DID it.
So it was a dangerous situation, but not to the toddler.
Are they sure it wasn’t something something like aren’t you a cutie? I say it to babies all the time why not this guy too. Plus baby is in one piece and not missing so not much worth fussing about.
Next time i shut up. Wont say hello or other social acceptable ways of communicating. The simple fact to be seen or even suspected as Seks Offender does me make this decision. I will wait till the world come to its sence again.
Amy P
My thoughts exactly.
Luckily it’s not acceptable to say anything directly against a person because of their sexual orientation or sexual identity.
But, unfortunately, negative people can always find a way.
So now, that they cannot punish a man for wearing women’s clothes, they make up something else about him. And put it in the news, as if it was done to help our children be safe. While all the time thinking to themselves: “YEAH! We did it! We got rid of this ‘criminal’! *wink wink*”
I wanna throw up.
Because kids are taught from birth to never ever talk to strangers, the (probably by-now-bored) Little Darling in the shopping cart seat COULDN’T POSSIBLY have spoken to the non-perp first and the NON-perp was simply being polite by responding. Nosiree, that NEVER happens in stores or store parking lots, so all the times a precocious toddler in a cart seat started chatting me up while Mom’s attention was elsewhere must’ve been figments of my imagination.
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry that I’m old enough to remember when an adult male could “chat up” a child in a shopping cart without it being an “incident” worthy of calling 911 or a local news crew. If the Nervous Nellie parents in the story panic when a total stranger has “verbal contact” with their child, leave the child at home with a sitter from now on.
What’s this world coming to when men are allowed to inhabit the same planet as children !!
“News”, by definition, is something that is unusual in some way. There are some exceptions… weather is “news”, even in places where it doesn’t change much. Sports results are news, even when the team that was expected to win, wins (“In today’s news, the Globetrotters defeated the Washington Federals…”)
Having a man dressed as a woman interacting with other people in public is still unusual. Maybe someday, it won’t be, but it is now.
Cosplay used to be unusual. In my youth, the TV news would come to the SF convention to take pictures of the people dressed as their favorite science-fiction characters from books, magazines, movies, and TV. That was basically the only coverage of anything that happened at the convention… some people walking around in costumes. Now that there are enough people doing it for there to be a word for it, it isn’t news that some people like to dress up in costumes, and the local TV stations don’t bother any more.
Darth Vader riding a unicycle playing flaming bagpipes? That’s just a thing that can happen any day in Portland.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=vader+unicycle+bagpipes
I must be asking for trouble. I am a 56 year old man who waves at kids in shopping carts all the time and occasionally speaks to them. I guess I’ve been lucky so far that i haven’t been arrested.
Seriously, though, I kinda feel like its my mission to let people know that it’s possible for your kid to talk to an adult and emerge unscathed.
Anyone else notice that the word suspicious is in quotes on the news screen?
Kimberely, yes, I noticed the quotation marks around the word suspicious. I think the reason for doing so is it was the only way they could apply the word to this situation, knowing full well that the whole story is ridiculous.
I just did this in line at the dollar store yesterday at lunch time! My apologies for making smiley googley faces and at the almost 2 year-old girl with pink Trolls sneakers in front of me smile and look to her mother who also smiled. She was a cutie!!!
But I am a woman who dresses like a woman so I guess not *suspicious*. Once, my daughter’s friend asked me very loudly why the woman with the deep husky voice who told her she was being so good “Is that a lady or a man?” to which I told the nice lady, “She’s not mine”.
It’s Walmart.
If you’re going to be offended and terrified of people dressed inappropriately, you’re at the wrong place.
(See *People of Walmart* website for reference.)
It should be illegal for anyone to talk to anyone.
You can’t be too careful!
Honestly, it’s stories like these that make me just want to dive under the covers…forever.
1) how do they know it was a “man dressed like a woman?” Frankly, we shouldn’t presume to know the gender of anyone unless they tell us, but let’s go with anyone who presents as a woman should be referred to as a woman, or — if you’re really not sure — let’s go with “person!”
2) Did it rise to the level of “suspicious” because they’re gender presentation didn’t fall neatly into the comfortable binary we are all used to? If this had been a more “gender conforming” person, would this have gotten any attention?
3) or is it just the whiff of a man-any man – showing an interest in a child that has everyone running around yelling “stranger alert! stranger alert!”?
4) I’ve been of the opinion for a while that local news is responsible for a good deal of social norm establishment, and it’s a dreadfully narrow set of norms they apply and encourage adherence. I think it’s worthy of empirical study.
going back to bed now….
I’m surprised the parents didn’t get arrested because they kept a minor out after bedtime. If you’re in a parking lot at night, it will be dark and not as busy. That’s probably why they were a bit more cautious of this stranger.
“A man dressed as a woman”. Hm, I wonder if they’re actually talking about a transwoman? Because we all know that according to sensationalist news, the only group of people more likely to molest your child than a man is a MTF Transgender.
I’ll ask something even simpler. Who alerted the media to this “incident”? Why is Walmart specifically mentioned? The media has a tendency to jump all over anything involving Walmart. That this involves a child and Walmart makes it even better.
I think I’ve mentioned this before. Several years ago I was at a grocery store. I was reaching for something on a shelf when a little boy, sitting in a cart, said “What’s your name?” I told him “Jim” and walked away. A little bit later I’m in the checkout line and he’s in the cart in front of me. We had started talking when his Mother said “What have I told you about talking to strangers?” The little guy replied “That’s no stranger, that’s Jim!” I laughed so hard I hurt myself.
I’m with Mary… if we really wanted to enforce a nanny state where the judgment of no adult or parent is to be trusted, Walmart could just have their greeters enforce bedtime curfews for infants, toddlers and teens… maybe 7pm for up-to-3-y/o kids, 8pm for 3-to-8, and 9pm for 8-to-16s.
But, that would be ridiculous, just like this “incident” was.
Known the world over as The Spoken-to Child because of a horrific childhood incident, Suzy Harper recently had a breakthrough in therapy. After a long succession of therapists unsuccessfully scoured her memory of the incident, Dr. Jon Walsh was finally able to extract important details from her long forgotten memories. Suzy, with grateful tears streaming down her still-chubby cheeks, said, “I finally remembered! The man dressed like a woman said to me, ‘Hey there, kiddo.'”
The search for the MDLAW continues. Searches of Target restrooms have been unfruitful.
Faithful viewers who have a heart for Suzy’s traumatic story need no reminder that next Sunday is the 50th annual Spoken-to Children’s Day. The candlelight vigil begins at 9 p.m. on the steps of the state capital.
@marie-That is awesome.
Seriously, if they think the parking lot exchange was scary, just wait until Halloween when men will dress as women, animals, food, and maybe even the scariest of all- a clown!
There was a terrifying incident outside Philly where some teens put red balloons on sewer grates and police were notified of this terrifying event (I was in awe of this prank).
It’s amazing what scares people and what they report to the police.
There was a “big issue” some years ago in my neighborhood when a woman in a van approached several children on their way home from elementary school. Parents panicked, news spread quickly. Beware! A few days later someone wrote on our neighborhood page that the woman found a necklace in front of the school and tried to find its owner. When she did not, she brought it to the school office. Well, maybe a rather strange way how to find a child who lost something, but anyway… Such stories remind me a fairy tale about “A boy who called wolf”. Or not?
Slow news day? Deathly slow news day?
I always wonder, when reading these stories, just how long it’s going to be before I’m arrested for taking my own children with me to run errands.
Just saying, I was accused, at length, earlier this week of being a man dressed as a woman.
As I was wearing my husband’s jeans (top of the clean washing pile and I couldn’t be bothered finding mine) and a men’s jacket (great pockets, found it in a second hand store) this was especially confusing for me.
Now if only my sexist patients thought I was male I might at least get some benefit, but all I got was abuse.
The growing number of these ‘incidents’ are similar to the growing number of rapes on campus and why Universities are no longer safe.
I love it when news channels promote their news readers.
“Joe Blow, Jane Doe, and Fred Smuck deliver the news that you can trust!”
Sadly, something like this happened recently at a park near me. A man was at a birthday party with his two kids. Two other girls were playing along with the party kids. Party kids started leaving, the two were still there. The dad asked them if they needed a ride home, and had some kind of conversation with them. I know, stupid. His own kids were in the car. Another mom saw him talking to the two kids (ages 6 and 8) and yelled at him, took photos of him and his car. He drove away, maybe fast. These facts were not reported in the paper, but they were reported by various people on the police Facebook page as to what happened and why this dad of two kids is not a risk to anyone.
The two kids who were apparently offered a ride, live across the street, parents were on the porch watching. They like to let their kids free range somewhat.
The guy who offered the ride got arrested. He has been charged with “luring”, which apparently in WA does not have to have an intent to harm or do bad things to the kids. It can be just inviting them for a ride to their home.
I fear for my sons.
Can’t imagine living worrying every interaction my kids have with an adult is something more, and feeling that that simple interaction needs to be reported.
It’s a vicious cycle. Someone on social media writes story about being followed, or whatever the big trend is. Gets shared and passed on. Media picks up on it does and report/segment. Brings that to parents attention and now they see everything in that light. Queue something as simple as someone talking to their child, call an manager, and instead of saying sorry nothing happened and it being left at that. It’s call the cops, and again instead of going that’s not a crime and leaving it at that. It’s we’ll investigate just to make sure. And because nothing happened so there is really nothing to go on they reach out to the public for help. Which confirms fears because why else would the do that if they didn’t think something happened. Another blogger sees the hits and traffic and now writes there own post one upping the last one (talked to,followed, sex traffickers, attempted abduction) and the cycle continues.
“The guy who offered the ride got arrested. He has been charged with “luring”, which apparently in WA does not have to have an intent to harm or do bad things to the kids.”
No.
RCW 9A.40.090
Luring.
(1) A person commits the crime of luring if the person, with the intent to harm the health, safety, or welfare of the minor or person with a developmental disability or with the intent to facilitate the commission of any crime:
(a) Orders, lures, or attempts to lure a minor or a person with a developmental disability into any area or structure that is obscured from or inaccessible to the public, or away from any area or structure constituting a bus terminal, airport terminal, or other transportation terminal, or into a motor vehicle;
(b) Does not have the consent of the minor’s parent or guardian or of the guardian of the person with a developmental disability; and
(c) Is unknown to the child or developmentally disabled person.
Thank you, New Name. Someone else had posted and said that it had changed, taking out intent. For a police office page…they don’t actually correct things that people say.
Still, it seems like it is all part of this very bad trend to say that half of the population cannot talk to anyone under a certain age.
My kids have never known a stranger, and chat up people all the time, everywhere. Especially if someone is in a military uniform (they thank them for their service) or if the person is wearing a football jersey. One time, a woman scolded my daughter for talking to her. My daughter said, “It’s okay to talk to strangers, just don’t go off with them.”
The only time this ever got uncomfortable was when I was a single Mom, and the kids would invite random men who looked interesting to be their “Dad in the house.” This never resulted in them getting a new Dad, but I did have a really interesting conversation with a 6’2″ man dressed as a bride. (My daughter liked his dress, which prompted the request for him to be their Dad.)
“Someone else had posted and said that it had changed, taking out intent. ”
No, other way. it recently changed to ADD the intent element, after a court case in which the appeals court found that the statute, as written (without the intent element), was unconstitutionally overbroad.
Just last week I took my 2 littles (2 1/2) to the play ground my one little B loves dogs and knows to ask and hold her hand out etc. While I’m standing at the sand box with A ( he’s a sand thrower) she goes up to a dog and starts walking with the dog and the owner. One of the other moms there ” she’s walking away, she’s walking away with her” all panicked. B stops at the edge of the wood chips says bye and comes running back. Queue the mom ” I would never let my child do that”
First I know I’m watching her. Second i have given her boundaries, and she knows what will happen if she goes to far, and until she shows me she’s not going to stop I’m not saying anything, I trust her. When she comes back She gets a good remembering to stop at the woodchips. And third, I may not know the dogs or the owners names but I do know they are there same time every week as the dog is a hospital therapy dog, and this is her break. Which I know because the first time B goes to a new dog I ask if they are good/ used to kids.
People are being conditioned to distrust each other and behave in a paranoid manner. This is very sad. Society is based on tolerance and goodwill. For some reason we are living through a period where media and law enforcement are motivated to erode the underpinnings of a successful society. What is the point of this unraveling?
Many years ago (before the world went totally nuts about adults speaking to kids in public), I had my then 18 month old daughter in a cart at a store similar to Home Depot. While I was standing 10 feet away looking at a potential purchase, she was approached by a man who appeared to be in his 40s and who clearly had Down’s Syndrome. He did not touch her, but they started a great conversation (she was a very early talker) and were having a great chat when an older, well dressed woman came hurtling around the corner, clearly looking for her son (who proceeded to introduce my daughter to his mother). It was immediately apparent to me by the look on her face that she was concerned by my attitude and what I was going to do. I immediately reassured her that I was absolutely fine with our children having a chat and she took her son and left.
I have often thought about that mother and the difficulties she faced with people being scared of her son for no good reason. What a terrible burden to carry.
“Man dressed as a woman” – That’s plenty of reason for pause. Good for the parents and the community for being concerned.
In the pre-internet days, a child predator was an adult who sought out children and abducted or coerced them into their home or car for the purpose of sexually assaulting them. Then came the internet where a child predator was an adult who sought out teenage or children’s forums in order to trick kids into meeting them in person for the purpose of harming or sexually assaulting them. Before you know it, that definition expanded to talking sexual or suggestive to the youngster and not necessarily wanting to meet them in person. Now, however, a child predator is ANY adult who merely talks to a youngster. Doesn’t have to be sexual or suggestive. The adult could merely wink at the kid and say to him “How are you today young man? Are you helping mom shop?” Even innocent communication like that to a kid in this day and age can get a well-intentioned adult into trouble if a paranoid parent is involved.
It’s really getting ridiculous and needs to be reined in.
“Police aren’t sure what the man told the toddler, but they are investigating it.”
Are they going to ask the 3-year-old to recreate the conversation, word for word?
Oh, and DrTorch? Wrong site
I’m pretty sure this would have happened at 1 of 2 stores I’ve visited (one quite frequently). Mesa is fairly conservative even for AZ, which I’m sure is a factor. It does seem the child was genuinely frightened or confused, tho this could obviously be unrelated to any actual threat.
Dr. Torch,
Please cite all incidents you know of where a transgendered man attacked a toddler or anyone…..
@JohnB: Something I find amusing is that in many “incidents”, there’s little indication of the child feeling frightened or threatened until a parent panicked. In this case, as I noted, the child evidently found the encounter odd. Might be interesting to experiment how young children really normally react to strange dress.
“People are being conditioned to distrust each other and behave in a paranoid manner.”
More than that, they’re being conditioned to run to authorities for every little thing. That scares me worse than anything….
Dr. Torch: Please define “man dressed as a woman”. I’m genuinely curious. No one could mistake me for a woman (the beard sort of gives my gender away), but I’ve worn kilts in public, including solid colored ones that look a lot like pleated skirts. Surprisingly warm garments, actually. Am I dressing as a woman? I’ve seen innumerable women in jeans and t-shirts, which is my usual “not at work” garb; am I dressing as a woman? For that matter, I once knew a man who wore skirts all the time–full-length skirts, purchased in the Women’s department. There was nothing in the least feminine about him, and the way he dressed made it clear he was dressing for comfort, not titillation; was he dressing as a woman?
“It does seem the child was genuinely frightened or confused, tho this could obviously be unrelated to any actual threat.”
First, I’m not a huge fan of going with how a child–or anyone–feels when it comes to criminal charges. If you feel unsafe yeah, get out of the situation; however, your feelings may be wrong, and it’s very likely that a child’s feelings are wrong. I mean, my kids freak out if I make them put pants on some days; we’re dealing with immature people (no insult here; kids are SUPPOSED to be immature). We should not be sending the police after people just because a kid is frightened; we should get the facts.
Second, this raises the question of cause and effect. Did the man cause the fright/distress, or was he reacting to it? I’ve occasionally seen a child in distress, and done things like give them back the toy they’ve dropped (the cause of the distress). I’ve seen strangers joke with my kids when they were upset, which calmed my kids down (this is predominiantly older women in my experience). If the presence of the man is what frightened the kid, I would also question why. Did the man do something threatening? Or did the parents pound into the kid’s mind that strangers are universally dangerous?
@James: I elaborated on my thoughts a bit in an additional comment. A lot of the data you could apply to these questions comes from the study of “coulrophobia”. The upshot would be that kids react strongly to colorful and unusual costumes, but no evidence is forthcoming that an actual criminal would do anything but avoid such things.
One more thing that’s niggling at my mind: The description of the harasser has parallels to entities not considered “real” in a conventional sense, like the “Mad Gasser” and ‘phantom clowns”. I would be VERY interested to know if the interaction showed up in security footage.
“Dr. Torch: Please define “man dressed as a woman””- No. I didn’t make that assertion so I have no responsibility to define it. Pay attention to the discussion and stop addressing me for your ridiculous tangents.
“Oh, and DrTorch? Wrong site”- Obviously not. Well, maybe for you.
“Please cite all incidents you know of where a transgendered man attacked a toddler or anyone”- I will start by identifying at least one more fallacy from a contentious dullard who doesn’t understand sound reasoning.
Is Dr. Torch James Pollock with a new name?
DrTorch- “I will start by identifying at least one more fallacy from a contentious dullard who doesn’t understand sound reasoning.”
1. Are you calling me a dullard?
2. OK..identify the fallacy, please.
“Is Dr. Torch James Pollock with a new name?”
I’m pretty sure not.
I have occasion here & there to talk to kids, and I do so. That people are paranoid isn’t going to stop me. I’m not obnoxious about it, but I don’t turn down an opportunity to engage a child with my silliness either.
The funny thing is that in our area it seems like I am pretty regularly seeing stories in the paper (or whatever) about a FEMALE teacher aged 25-30 or so having been found to have engaged in inappropriate conduct with little boys. I see these stories WAY more than I do stories of men doing such a thing, yet it’s the “strange men” people are scared of. Regardless, my son this year is in 3rd grade and his teacher is a super-young 25-year old who frankly is kind of cute to be perfectly honest. She is precisely the age of those teachers I read about in the papers, and in fact my son likes her.
Here’s the thing, though–I choose to NOT make snap judgments about 25 year old women who spend time with my son in such a capacity. Granted, he’s only 8, but still, it’s a small school, he could still be seeing this teacher when she’s 30 and he’s 13. What if she is “grooming” him for the future? Hmm? Really, that’s the mindset of these people after all.
” Doesn’t have to be sexual or suggestive. The adult could merely wink at the kid and say to him “How are you today young man? Are you helping mom shop?” Even innocent communication like that to a kid in this day and age can get a well-intentioned adult into trouble if a paranoid parent is involved.
It’s really getting ridiculous and needs to be reined in.”
You’re right this is ridiculous. That’s why I keep pointing out for people to not be so #$%^#!! gullible! Sure an ‘expert’ or a mob on a form can certainly tell you that “Any male stranger that talks to a child, smiles, or even makes eye contact, is a sexual predator” However, it’s up to the person to actually believe this crap! Unfortunately, we have created a ‘victim society’ that’s so widespread that some people WANT to be a victim – or more accurately want the victim label so that they can be a member of the crowd! The expert told them that they are entitled to join the club. Why not join it?
If only they knew about all the drawbacks of a victim mentality.
Ok, where are you getting that the child was upset by the conversation with the “man dressed as a woman?” I see nothing about the child being upset in the article. The parents were clearly upset or the police would not have been called, but we know absolutely nothing about the emotional state of the child.
United States of Paranoia and Suspicion!
Wait–What? My husband makes “verbal contact” with toddlers in the store on occasion. Nobody’s ever freaked out about it.
*gasp* OMG! They saw Conchita Wurst and didn’t even ask for an autograph! :-O
😛
Mom radar on here…. The difference for me between suspicious and non-suspicious often involves the persons’ respect for personal space. Some one just talking to my kids is one thing, but if they are up in their face or really close, it gets my suspicions up. Second thing that get’s my attention is do they engage me – give me eye contact or something to acknowledge my presence and authority/responsibility for this child. I wouldn’t call the police about this, but this would be one of those tricky people situations. I’d be talking to my kid about it for sure. No matter how they are dressed.
A man dressed as a woman? Since they don’t know who this person is, how did they determine that the person was physically a man? I’ve known physical females with hormone imbalance issues who have to shave as a result. Someone might claim that they were a “man dressed as a woman” – but it would be false.
Did the mother of the child take “upskirt” photos of this individual?
Chances are I know all the men dressed in women’s clothing in my town so no worries there. It’s my cousin or the Queen who did my hair for 10 years.
I hate the frequency in which people report non incidents. Cell phones are partly responsible for this. Everyone walking down a road or parked off the side of the road became suspicious. People can see someone beating another person senseless on the side of the road and wait 3 hours to call it in because they, “don’t want to get involved”. A woman walking down the side of the road carrying one grocery bag… alert the cops!! Something is horribly wrong! She’s in mortal danger! Kids playing in their yard? Call CPS!!! Remove them now!!!
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again… I don’t know what people expect. There has been so much hysteria pushed over men in general, for years, by several different special interest groups. When everyone acts like strangers are lurking in every corner, waiting to abduct your child, you can not be surprised when people think someone will now dress up as a woman to gain easy access to their children in bathrooms.
No guarantee this person was even trans. They could be a Queen, standard cross dresser, going to a costume party, etc.