Thinking The Worst First

Amen!

(It’s Sunday.)

Actually, this is not worst-first thinking. Because in these cases, her dad dying would surely be worse than possible kidnapping. What it is, is a perverted obsession with pedophilia and child abduction that kind of grosses me out, to be honest.

“It is a necessary evil. To keep children safe”

This line is used as excuse for EVERYTHING, not only in free range parenting related topics

This week I was involved in a discussion about the father who recently “punished” his daughter for breaking curfew by putting an ad in the local paper for her for free babysitting. The argument was that it was dangerous for the teenager because you never know who is going to answer that ad. Please, the people who are going to answer it are parents of small children who want out of the house. Not only that but the father of the teenager said that he checked out the people who answered the ad. So what is the problem?

I am very thankful my parents never thought twice about my HS/College age Uncles taking us out for the day. The Uncles figured out/got my sister and I to fess up about how bad the bullying I was experiencing was at school. Specifically about the sexual aspect of the bullying.

Can you imagine being 17 – 22 yo and going to your brother-in-law, who you have met maybe 4 times (we lived in different countries), and telling him his 10 yo was being threatened daily at school with sexual assault and you thought she might be suicidal? They did.

When we got home 2 calls were made. To our lawyer and my doctor. I started therapy to deal with the violence I had already suffered. The lawyer made it clear to the school and parents of the boy either the violence/bullying would stop or criminal and civil charges would be brought.

The song and dance changed from boys will be boys to of course this will stop.

my hubby currently works out of town. i can’t begin to tell y’all how grateful i am when one of the gentlemen, dads or not dads, at church reaches out to my son for a brief wrestling match, a toss in the air, or even a hug. i also really appreciate the guys who do the kids’ workshops at home depot. they’re really kind and patient with kids and parents! seriously, if one of our male friends/relatives wants to play with my boy, all i think is, “thank you for letting me have a moment.”
cute stranger story- we’re at kroger, the boy is in one of those car baskets that’s like pushing a bus. he’s steering happily. a gentleman walks by and says, “are you driving?” “yup!” the boy chirps cheerily. “you’re doing a good job steering that basket.” says the man. “thanks!” says the boy. as we walk away, “mommy, did you hear what that nice gentleman said to me?” i wanted to cheer! not the scary stranger, not that creepy man- the nice gentleman! fearless and wise, that’s our goal for meeting people we don’t know!

Children deserve to be surrounded by as many people who love them, care about them and who will be positive influences as possible and over protective parenting is ripping that away from kids.
My husband always has loved kids and acts like a big one himself. Sometimes when we are at the park and he is playing with our kids ( usually soccer) other kids will join in on the fun. I usually see at least 1 parent hauling their kid off giving my husband “that look”. I often have to bite my tongue.

What’s particularly distressing about your friend’s family’s attitude is the underlying assumption that everyone’s motivations are completely selfish. In this case, it manifests as the assumption that a male playing with children must be doing it either to benefit his own kids (not anybody else) or his own perversity. We can’t imagine altruistic behavior, or even simple reciprocity (maybe the guy enjoys helping others enjoy themselves).

That attitude is also tied up with the notion of children as possessions.

“The group of male family members who had children remarked that the other guy had no business out there playing with the kids because he didn’t have any.”

Okay, that’s weird. Because most dads I know would be glad for the break — yay, someone else is playing with my kids for a moment so they won’t bother me! And this is family, so they all presumably know each other?

Is it possible they were uncomfortable with this SPECIFIC guy, for gut reasons, and that was just the excuse they used / the way they explained it? Because sometimes a specific person will give you the cautionary vibe, and it’s hard to explain it to people – “I know it’s not rational, I just SENSE there’s something off about this specific guy…” Nobody wants to say that, and we aren’t encouraged to trust instinct in that way, but often instinct is right.

I read an article in a magazine recently that said that kids under 10 should not play with people over the age of 10 at family parties because it was too dangerous. The young ones could get hurt if the big ones are playing too hard and the young ones could trip the big ones and hurt them. Unbelievable.

If that girl hadn’t walked to the fire station to save her dad, he might have died. And then she would have been home alone. And then she could have electrocuted herself trying to use the cellphone to call her mom. And then she could have fainted and choked on her own vomit. And then a pedophile could have climbed through the rosebushes, jimmied the lock, killed the family dog, and spirited the unconscious girl away into his ice cream truck.

But none of that happened–all because she was never left alone in the house, thank goodness. But it could have happened.

(This is sarcasm. Thank you).

Sickening how an adult interacting in a positive manner with kids, in full view of a whole host of adults and relatives, mind you, is somehow branded a predator.

Our pledge is to think.

Yes, that about sums it up!

Today I’m in a “discussion” on that mighty-mom website about proper car seat use. The item of disagreement is whether it’s OK for a child to wear a coat during a drive. Apparently anyone who puts a coat on a kid who’s going to be in a car does not care about their kid at all. One person went so far as to say they won’t deserve sympathy at their child’s funeral.

Nobody found it the least bit suspicious that this was strongly encouraged by companies that sell expensive products as alternatives to coats in the car. (The only videos offered as [sketchy] “evidence” were their product ads.)

My question was, are we painting with too broad a brush? Are my coat-wearing preschoolers really going to fly out of her seat during an 8-minute drive at 30MPH? Where’s the proof? Crash test video? Statistics? Logic?

But the verdict of the community is that regardless of the complete absence of any logic or evidence (pertinent to my kids’ age and size), my kids are going to “suffer” for my tendency to “think” and want to know the logic behind a safety rule.

Fact is, there is an opportunity cost to every “safety” decision. 10 minutes per day (putting coats on & off in the car as recommended) is 60 hours per year – times three, since it would take all of our time – not to mention the aggravation of prodding two 3-year-olds to do anything promptly in cramped quarters when you’re on a schedule. Unless you have nothing better to do all day, how can you not do a cost / benefit analysis?

[For the record, I don’t wear coats on my kids for long drives. And even on short drives in good weather, I don’t drive more than 55 on the freeway. (As for their argument that someone is likely to come at me and hit me head-on in the one-way freeway lane while we are both going 70 . . . I don’t think I need to address that here, do I?)]

Sometimes I think it best to illustrate absurdity by being absurd. Think of the scenario we were discussing a few days ago. Do not leave the kids locked in their car seats for four minutes while you pay inside. They could have been kidnapped, car jacked, overheated, etc. Turn it around. If you brought them in they could have been run over by a car in the lot. They could have been mowed down in a form of gang initiation ritual. There could have been an armed robbery at the checkout line. The air intake in the store could have sucked exhaust into the building causing CO poisoning. ….Oh on second thought that would probably make it worse.

It’s as simple as this, it’s NOT about the kids to them. They just use children as the excuse. I’m certain they mean well in the safety of their children. But it’s primarily to ease THEIR own fears, THEIR own insecurities, THEIR own issues. No how they portray it, or how they justify it in their heads, they ALL KNOW what the reason is deep down inside. They are just too stubborn and ignorant to admit it. There by jeopardizing their children’s mental, emotional well being as they grow up. There by altering their future adult lives for the worse. A mirror image of their (the parents’) own lives now.

I DARE ANY OF THOSE PARENTS TO GO UP TO THE PARENTS OF THAT GIRL THAT DROWNED AND TELL THEM “It is a necessary evil. To keep children safe.” I wonder how long it will be by before the parents of that girl knock their teeth off! I know I would.

I would much rather live with the mark of pervert than to live knowing I could have kept that girl from drowning!

Good post.

I am a martial arts and women self defence instructor – and have been researching the subject and helping other instructors and police officers design their own course offerings since the early 90s.

Your post reiterates a common message I share in my self defence classes – and that is that most people cannot correctly estimate the many risks they face on a daily basis. Many in fact obsess on aspects of danger that are highly improbable. Then when faced with some form of danger, these same people are unable to make decisions that can save their lives.

I am a huge proponent of increasing awareness, and I like the balanced approach promoted by freerangekids. You are doing a good job …. more parents should come here and get a dose of freerange perspective.

Cheers,

Colin
SuperParents

Eric – so just for fun, I’d want to know – how are they going to confirm I’m with my “own” children at the park? Demand ID (kids don’t have any)? Do a DNA test (mine were adopted)? Lie detector? Interrogate my kids? Am I likely to be shaken down regularly because I don’t look like the parent of the kids I’m with? Ugh – shudder . . ..

About a month ago, I was taking my first ever flight with my then 8 month old son. It was just us two, a couple of bags and a stroller. It got aggravating at times trying to lug everything through the airports, especially when my son, who had just started the clingy stage, refused to be left in the stroller. So I was immensely grateful, while waiting for our final flight, to two gentlemen who entertained him so I could have a break. We were in the boarding area and I set him on the floor to move around. He crawled across the way to where two men were seated, one looked like a young grandpa and the other in his early twenties. At first I was concerned when he started crawling over, but not because they were men. I was concerned for their electronics and books and the fact that my baby might be disturbing them. But then the grandpa moved the book he’d been reading out of my son’s reach and started playing with him once he pulled himself up. And the other young man picked him up (after encouragement from me) and held him and played with him for a good twenty minutes. We chatted, and I found out he was the oldest in his family and had lots of practice with babies. It actually wasn’t until I was almost home that I realized not once had I considered that these men might be predators. I was just simply, overwhelmingly grateful that they were there to give me a brief respite from the struggles of traveling with an infant. And also, how can I forget the big, gruff construction worker who sat next to me on one flight, who held my son as well and even put up with him pulling on his goatee. He told me about his four-year-old daughter and how much she looked like her mother. I think it’s so sad that we forget that these “men” that society is so afraid of are fathers and grandpas, brothers and uncles. There are sick people out there, it’s true, but so many of the ones we’re willing to lump into the “pervert” category, just based on their gender, are good men, wanting to help where they can, if we’d just give them the chance.

Does this mean that at some point some idiot is going to say people without children are not allowed to go to disneyworld?

After reading about how David and Charles Koch have funded organizations that further their radical libertarian views. I had an “ah-ha” moment. These guys and their rich buddies have poured hundreds of millions of dollars into encouraging us to be afraid- of change, of government, etc. And, not just afraid, but angry. I think that after a while of having them push fear through think tanks, conventions, and the media, it has become an infection, and has been magnified further by corporations that just do whatever to get you to buy their stuff. They have been remarkably, and frighteningly, successful. The New Yorker article did help me feel a little better in that the fear, at least in part, is coming from the outside of us and is not necessarily a natural part of each of us or of our society.

I didn’t read the other comments, so I bet this has been mentioned..

If the dads didn’t like another man playing in the pool with their kids why didn’t they get their lazy heineys off their chaise lounges and play with the kids themselves?????

Grrr, this chaps my hide.

Thinking worst first is a constant problem across many areas. The motivation of children is to ‘test limits’. The economy has NEVER been worse. Kids have it tougher today. The school bus is just crazy. Danger, danger. Men are all predators.

I’m thinking of the young men who work at my daughter’s summer camp. My husband was that same type of young man at a similar age and I have a cousin who is just the same. They are great with kids, relate well to them and the kids love them too. At what age do they go from being “great kids” who have a real rapport with younger children, to being potential predators? This is just such a disturbing attitude, and so unbelievable that family members are suspecting each others motives.

My third child’s teacher is MORTIFIED that I am letting her walk to school alone as a kindergartener. Six houses down, turn left. Two others have survived this dangerous walk through the wilds of the vinyl siding jungle, with dangers like cracks in the sidewalk and other children walking at different speeds… the HORROR!

I think it is wrong to generalize in either case — ALL men are to be suspect — OR — NO men are to be suspect. Everyone must be taken on a person by person basis.

The reason I asked if maybe their gut was telling them something was because of an experience I had at a family gathering, where there was a particular male individual who made me uncomfortable around my kids. I couldn’t have explained rationally why — it was a sort of SENSE. At the time, I just thought, well, thankfully there will never be any reason for him to be alone with my kids that I can think of, so I won’t have to explain why I don’t want him to be. Sometime later he was arrested for child molestation and is now in jail. I have only had this feeling twice, ever, since having children (I don’t know if it was accurate in the second case as I have no contact with him).

I think there is a real intuition in these matters, but I realize that also our intuitions can be distorted by misinformation. I know nothing about this PARTICULAR case described here at the swimming pool, but, in my experience, it is so unusual for dads not to want other male friends and family members (strangers are a different matter, but friends and family?) to play with their kids (they usually see it as a break from duties and are grateful) that I wondered if their sense that this guy should NOT be playing with their kids was motivated by something other than the generalization that men without children should not play with children — a generalization they may have used as an excuse rather than saying, “I don’t want him playing with my kid because I feel hinky about him.” Of course, if I felt that, I would get IN THE POOL with my kids and stay in. Why didn’t these dads? So maybe they really were just making a borad general rule and had not instincutal reason to supsect this guy.

I certainly don’t think we should make the generalization that a man without kids shouldn’t be playing with kids (and in both the cases when I had that weird SENSE, both men had kids — what, child molesters are more likely to be childless? Hardly!). On the other hand, I cannot possibly go so far as to vow to “see men and women as decent until PROVEN otherwise.” Proof is necessary in a court of law where punishments are meted out, but it is not always necessary in our day to day interactions where we choose with whom to leave our children, or whom to trust to help us bring our bags to our car in an underground garage at night. To insist on PROOF of indecency before assuming caution around certain people would sometimes require ignoring instincts that warn us against potential harm. It would also require ignoring warning signs of potential violence (because warning signs are not PROOF). It is so common to ignore these signs (until someone is raped, until someone shoots up the school, until someone shows up at work with a gun and opens fire). Violence and sexual abuse almost always has a trail of warning signs proceeding it, but people are so afraid to appear rude or judgmental or to make a scene that they often do not heed them. There are all sorts of fears that motivate us – not just fears of our children being hurt, but fears of others thinking we are judgmental or impolite or that they will know our private suspicsions about particular people with whom we are uncomfortable.

Generalizations are a way people try to make themselves comfortable by covering the things they are worried about in a blanket sort of way, so they won’t have to point to any one specific person. We’re really worried about person Z, but we don’t want to say we’re worried about preson Z, so instead we’ll say we’re worried about group Y, which includes person Z.

Sky, I agree with you. The pledge would be better modified to something like “I will see men and women as decent unless I have a specific reason to suspect otherwise.” A “specific reason” can even be a hunch, if it’s strong enough — but it has to be person-specific, not generalized to something absurd and bigoted like “all men without kids” or “all men over 60 who like to play with kids” or something bizarre like that.

This is so true. Men today even seem to be uncomfortable to bathe and change their own kids diapers, THERE OWN KIDS!!! What is going on here.

I am so glad that my husband does these things, but I feel bad for other moms!!!!

I see nothing wrong with going off of intuition and gut feelings. I’ve seen people who are creepy in ways I can’t put my finger on…maybe they’re fine, but if a radar goes off it shouldn’t be ignored. Parents should use their heads–and yes, their feelings, even. I believe in that sixth sense.

But that’s different than generalizing.

Paula, you’re right that gut instinct isn’t 100% reliable. But as long as following your gut doesn’t actually hurt anyone, it’s just as well to regard it, rather than completely stunt it by ignoring it entirely. I don’t think anyone’s suggesting harassing or persecuting people that make us uncomfortable in that situation, just that it might be a time to direct the kids elsewhere in those situations, without making a big deal out of things.

Visit http://www.deadbeatdad.us This site has tons of helpful info regarding child support and related topics!!

This whole thing about male adults is pretty silly.
Like the parents who don’t want their kindergartners to have a male teacher.
Or even sillier. At my house, my family is gone. My godson has lived with me for 22 years. He married a few years ago, and he and his wife now have a family of five. Last week, after accumulating the necessary documents including notarization, I took the 9 and 11 year-olds to visit relatives in Sonora, México. They consider me to be their grandfather. No problems, only idiotic delay returning to the US.
But, at home, the toddlers are discouraged from speaking to me, much less normal physical contacts–pat on the head or their demands for “High Five”. And a simple glance at the 3-month-old results in the baby being spirited out of the room by my godson’s wife, away from “danger”. The older kids are sometimes allowed to ride bikes and scooters around our cul-de-sac, but only under parental (not my) supervision.

Completely agree with all your excellent comments, above, and thought of one more point:

My entire life I have gotten along better with guys than with girls. I have several great girl friends, but in general I have a better time hanging out and feel much more
more like myself with the boys. I think it’s because I’m way more of a “Thinker” than a “Feeler”. Even as a young girl I got along better with my dad than my mom. So,

a) it would have be awful and mean if adults, because of their paranoia, had kept me sequestered away from men (i.e. my dad, family friends, etc). I would have been missed out on some of my most memorable, positive childhood experiences, and I would have felt even more alone than I already did.

b) it makes me sick to think that people might have looked at my dad et al. through suspicious eyes.

So our society says that if a man does not change diapers/bathe kids he’s lazy and uninvolved but if he does change diapers/ bathe kids he’s a pervert? Where’s the break?

Plurals, I think most people will be scared by your comment. But I think it’s honest and logical. It’s like, most men can be trusted around a pubescent girl, even though it’s clear she’s developing into a sexual being. Some people eventually marry the little girl they care so much about – without having committed any inappropriate behavior before the legal age. Not sure how common that is, but I know it does happen. I suspect it used to happen a lot more, when girls’ virginity was respected more.

Someone on here once brought up a great point about something similar, Plurals. It was acknowledged that there are very good people who for whatver reason have certain desires that are difficult to control and that we as a society don’t give them opportunity to deal with these desires in a helpful manner.

If you trust this man to control himself, hey, I support you.

Here’s the worst case of thinking the worst…

I’m divorced and remarried with two kids, one by each woman.

I was away overnight on business (though thankfully very near home) when my wife was taking care of my daughter from my first marriage and our son.

She got up, fed the kids, got them dressed, and then found one of our cats in acute distress. With little time, she told the daughter (8) to watch her brother (1 1/2), while she took the cat to the vet. She then put a call in to the babysitter, though couldn’t reach her.

The 8-year-old has watched her brother for hours on end, though never before on her own. She had my wife’s mobile number in case of emergency, the house was locked, and the alarm was on.

Upset about the dying cat, she called her mother to tell her the news that the cat was dying. Her mother then found out that she was on her own with her brother, CALLED THE POLICE, and got in her car to come over to the house.

My wife then got home (less than half an hour to and from the vet including the time to sign the form for the disposal of the then dead cat) to find the kids wandering outside the house with police in front of the house. She called me in a panic, and by the time I got home I had three police cars in front of the house with one of the police officers on the phone to child services. I also had to deal with a wife upset over the death of her longtime cat and almost in a panic over the threat of child services; and a daughter crying hysterically and apologizing for calling her mother, that it was all her fault that the police were there.

That was two weeks ago today. Child services is coming over this afternoon to assess the situation and evaluate our competence as parents.

My ex lives across the street from our daughter’s school. Until very recently, our daughter was not even allowed to walk herself to and from school “in case something happened”, and even now it’s a rare occurence for her to do so.

My ex and I have a clause in our separation agreement mandating the use of a parental coordinator. Despite the fact that two weeks have passed, she has refused to respond to my requests to make an appointment with same.

Have you seen this, Lenore? http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/travel/news/fears-over-airlines-move-to-separate-children-from-adults/story-e6frezi0-1225912167654

Air France has changed their seating policy so that unaccompanied minors must not be seated next to an adult. Cabin crew are concerned that this means children will not be able to be aided in the event of an emergency – but it’s apparently more important to the airline to protect children from adults than from oxygen deprivation in the event of an emergency… sigh.

We were at a gathering about six months ago. This was a potluck and we had just met the hosts when we arrived at their house. They had this really cool trampoline built into the ground (so that it was flush with the ground and had a pit under it so the person on it could jump just like on an above-ground trampoline but without falling off it).

My son, age 6, was on this thing jumping on it when another guest (who turned out to be friends with the hosts) started showing him all these neat tricks. I was right there, watching them. This guy really knew how to jump on a trampoline. He was alone and childless, and for a few moments I was skeptical but my son was having such a great time. My biggest worry was that my son was imposing on this guy’s time.

When we left, my son wanted this guy (it turned out he was married but without kids) to come to our house to “play.” Since we didn’t know the hosts we never were able to follow up, but my son often plays with our male, childless friends (while we’re around) when they and their mates come to dinner at our house.

I’m not 100% free range, but I do like to think that I’m not a paranoid parent, either.

The guy enjoyed playing with the kids precisely because he doesn’t have any — still has the idealization intact. Whereas the papas were probably laying low hoping to cop a few minutes peace for themselves. Bless. But, yes, they should be thankful to the sucker, eh, childless guy, for keeping the kids occupied for a while. Ingrates!

Re. prohibiting adults entering parks unless accompanying their own children: It’s obvious such a policy has no empathy for people who may want to enjoy the park but aren’t accompanying a child. But do the brains behind it realize this will also mean not empathizing with their future selves? Do they think they’ll have young children forever? I can imagine a time when, though I no longer have a child to accompany, I might want to amble over to the park, watch the little ones play, and get nostalgic. When today’s parents become tomorrow’s empty nesters, will they regret they’ve banned themselves from enjoying a park full of children? Oh, who am I kidding? Those types will figure out some other nonsense by then — Park for senior citizens ONLY. No squeals of laughter please.

@ebohlman – Your point about altruistic behavior no longer being taken at face value was interesting.

And, of course, I take the pledge.

Thank you for all your thoughtful replies. The way I reasoned my decision to allow this man to be my son’s friend was that a) he loves my son. As opposed to a simple desire. b) only unhealthy people hurt people they love. c) there is no evidence to suggest that this man is unhealthy.

I’ve found that – just like adults of both genders – he was capable of sacrificing the physical intimacy he might have desired for what seems to be an emotional intimacy that they both get a lot out of, and frankly, I’m glad my son has such a wonderful friendship with someone with actual life experience, rather than kids at school who might be just as naive as he is.

In fact, the only reason I would want to end the relationship is so that our friend doesn’t get left behind when my son grows up and starts seeing more of friends his own age.

I hope I’m not scaring anyone, and sorry if I did already. I suppose I’m an optimist.

OMG! You don’t even WANT to know what I think about people like this! I run a home daycare. One day, I get a call in response to a space I advertised as available. The nutty woman on the other end didn’t even ASK for my references, instead, for 15 minutes while one of my clients was here, grilled me about EXACTLY how much time my husband spends in his own home with the children. How much time unattended by me? How much time while I’m in the home. How much time in direct contact with the children. Does he change their diapers? Does he feed them? And this went on and on. As I was making faces and answering her questions, the other Mom said, “Give me the phone.” I shook my head and said (while covering the speaker), “Don’t worry, I won’t let this nutcase near your daughter.” then told her that I’m sorry she wasted her time, but quit your job and stay home!