A Divorced Dad Sick of Being Taken for a Perv

Well said, sir. Though not divorced, I also take a very active role in raising our children, and try to give my wife a break whenever possible.
I always thought that people would look towards a father shopping or playing with his children in a respectful way, not an accusatory one. I’m deeply saddened that this is not typically the case.

Give your wife a break?

That phrasing makes me kind of sad, honestly, because it sounds like your instinct is for her to be the one doing the work and that you can relieve or help her occasionally.

Regarding men with children, I often wonder what people do when someone asks where their mother is and the father says “We don’t know, because it’s my partner and I.” So often non-traditional family structures are totally invisible in society.

Given our work schedules (I’m a math teacher at an urban school, my wife’s a pediatric anesthesiologist at a children’s hospital), there are many times in which I am out with my daughter by myself. I do have to say that I have yet to encounter a single case of ‘the stare’. It helps, of course, that our daughter is a charmer and attention getter of the highest order. If pressed, however, I fully intend to respond by taking the “what kind of sicko would even think like that?” tack.

@ Emily,

As a full-time mother, she most definitely does the lion’s share of the work with the household and children. When I am not working one of my two jobs, yes, I like to take the kids and give her a break. She deserves it.

I am all for more hands on fathers. My husband is not much on taking them out on his own but he does sometimes. He is very hands on at home though. I love that he feels comfortable giving his sons kisses and hugs all day long. Many fathers never show their little boys physical affection.

Stay at home fathers are on the rise so hopefully society will get more used to seeing fathers out in public alone with their kids. I always smile and say Hi when I see a father with his kids alone. I give them extra encouragement.

If the rare thing happens and my kid actually does get kidnapped I would hope someone would stop it if they saw it, so I can understand people watching out for little kids. But, confronting you about it was not okay. He should have just watched from a distance discreetly to make sure it was okay. Once she calmed down and continued shopping with you he would know it was not a kidnapping situation. I don’t think that just goes with men either though. A woman is just as capable of kidnapping a child. I have had people give me weird looks because I was playing with their child along with my kids like they thought I was going to try to do something to their kid. Some people are just going to suspect everyone.

While not as rude as being asked you connection to the child, I also really dislike when people at the playground say something like “its so nice your wife gets to sleep in” or “its great that you give your wife a break.”

Its offensive that someone is presuming that my wife would be the primary caregiver instead of an equal partner who shares both bread winning and child care. It also is sad because it exposes my son to stereotypical gender biases that simply no longer exist in the way most people live.

Its sort of the same as saying “you speak really well” to an African American. The prejudice behind the statement makes the compliment really rude.

Well said original poster and well said Dolly. I myself stay at home with our 2 and 4 year olds–I’m married, and regularly engage with other kids in play publicly, for whatever reason they tend to gravitate towards me–why should I refuse them just because some people are suspicious by nature? I don’t think twice about being stern with mine publicly when I need to either.

Keep.at it dad. That you are indeed the dad is all you need. The schizoids suspicious of all men are little peons not relevant to life, they’re idiots not even worth acknowledging much less editing your parenting based on their stupid gazing.

LRH
Android VM

Dear EmilyMK, I’m afraid that it’s natural for the OP to sound a bit defensive – as a fellow father who works two jobs, I am cognizant of the fact that my wife does the lion’s share of the child-care, and would probably have phrased it similarly as “giving her a break” when our roles are reversed – that is, when I stay at home and watch the kiddo while she goes out and does things. Also, I probably would have been similarly hurt at a negative reaction to what I saw as an honest description of our familial roles. Naturally, my wife and I (and probably the OP’s family as well) know that other arrangements exist, but this is what ours looks like. I do however take the point about well-meaning but boneheaded people who see a man out with a child and are like “Oh, how nice to give your wife the day off.” Feminism fail.

Regarding the original topic, I take my 1 1/2 y/o with me many places, and I have never gotten anything but “Aww” type looks from strangers at seeing us playing, holding hands, etc. If someone gave me the suspicious inquisition that is described here, I would have a very hard time not telling them to get lost.

Well said, mamataney. To say my husband “gives me a break” sometimes (well, that’s more past tense since the kids are older now, and they’re more companion than responsibility most of the time) is not to imply that it’s some special favor that he does. It just describes what’s happening at that moment. And “babysitting” your own kids is ludicrous.

I am so sorry Byron! Its awful to ever feel that way! My dad was always taking us places and doing stuff with us as kids (my mom worked nights, so during the day my dad was the one we went to) And we are FIVE GIRLS! imagine a man alone with all those little girls! the horror! Keep up the good parenting! Much support your way!

Byron,

I’m also a divorced father, lucky enough to have a balanced custody arrangement so that half the time, I’m a single parent. (Which does help me better appreciate a typical mother’s role.) The only elements of creepiness I’ve noticed is that my daughter (almost 16) and I both get weirded out when someone assumes she’s my girlfriend (or even wife). Um, no. That’s one reason she never rides in the front passenger seat.

Without diminishing the annoyance of accusing and judgmental glances, the best solution is probably to ignore them, in a deep it-doesn’t-matter kind of way. Because it doesn’t, right? Even in the unlikely event that someone tried to report you as a child kidnapper, your kids would quickly straighten that out. (Although mine would probably delay for a moment, stroking their chins and thinking evil thoughts.)

Shrug off those glances as best you can, like water off a duck’s back. More focus on your kids and an air of confidence are the most powerful deflectors of suspicion, anyway; people read too much into nervousness.

However, when my daughter refuses to go shopping with me but still wants me to pick up some bras for her, that’s still weird. I can either risk the awkward looks at the store or insist that she shop for herself (or with her mom).

I will address both issues the article and the giving mom a break. First, I am very active with my oldest daughter in her swimming. I am the swim parent and my wife is the school parent. I go to about 97% of the practices and all the swim meets. My wife comes to very few swim meets because with a younger daughter it is just easier not to go compared to having to entertain a 2-6 year old in a hot pool for 5+ hours.
I am sure since I am a dad around children all the time in their swim trunks that there are people who think I am a perv. To that I say whatever. I love being a part of my daughter’s life in this long journey.
I take my children often out of the house to give my wife a break. It is something that needs to be done to keep the sanity in the house. My wife loves her quiet time and I love that I have a close relationship with my daughters.

It’s terrible how often men are judged for being around their own kids. My kids just finished swim lessons, and my toddler loved one of the grandfathers who took his grandkids to the pool for lessons at the same time, as he brought crayons and markers for his youngest granddaughter, and allowed my daughter to draw too. Usually he was the only man bringing kids in for lessons. Drawing is one of the few things that gets my youngest to sit still for very long at all, so I really enjoyed the time she wanted to spend at his table.

I know it can be awkward for stay at home dads to take their kids out. Two of my brothers-in-law are stay at home dads and both have made references to the challenges of not being accepted by the moms at the park.

Happy to report that my husband takes our son to a variety of local playgrounds after work every day and he knows far more neighborhood moms (dads, too, though fewer are at the playground at that hour) than I do! He has only once expressed discomfort with how he was treated– and that was because he was reluctant to help a little girl pull her pants back up after she’d pulled them down herself. As the only other adult there, I think he wound up watching baby sister while the mom dealt with the underwear & the embarrassment was his alone. He often tells me he plays tag or catch or otherwise helps out with other kids. This just seems to be how it’s done around here.

In our neighborhood — admittedly mostly affluent — we often see dads with kids of all ages, and often other races. It’s obvious which men at the playgrounds are dads! Very rarely there’s been someone who raises the hair on the back of my neck…I’ve never done anything about it other than maybe pay a little more attention to where my kid is, as opposed to daydreaming! I’ve seem some curious looks at out-of-the-ordinary-pattern families (we are one, being at the distinctly elder end of the parenting spectrum), but nothing hostile, and though I’ve overheard some friendly questions, no nasty comments. I’m afraid my response to something like that would probably not be repeatable in public. Good grief. Manners?

It has never crossed my mind to think the dads at the swimming pool are pervs. Jeez.

Though I will admit I’ve hung out a little longer than I otherwise would have keeping a subtle eye (at least, I hope it was subtle…I tried) on a situation I wasn’t sure about. Fortunately it’s always become apparent all was well…not entirely sure I know what I’d do otherwise! But I hope other members of my community do the same thing…because looking out for each other is part of what makes a community, right?

I agree 100%, taking offense to the statement “giving my wife a break” is most certainly a case of someone making a mountain out of an anthill. Enough! Clark Cox got it exactly right. But if the argument is over, then forgive me if I’m re-starting it, just chiming in that one of my main pet peeves is when people make something out of nothing like that.

Iva @ This Side of Perfect I couldn’t agree more. One of my main gripes is the whole “dead-beat” dads thing, in terms of dads being called that if they aren’t willing to dress in rags and live in a burning barrel so their kids & mother who never lets him see his kids are living in opulence. One attorney actually tried to argue with me–no I wasn’t going through such a thing, but the topic came up–that a man’s obligation with regards to child support & his right to see his kids are separate. I disagree 100%. A man–or woman, if the tables are turned–should NEVER be compelled to shell out $500 or more every month for kids that they are not allowed to see even when the dad has made it clear he wants to.

That’s ridiculous. If you’re giving up that much for said kids, you sure as heck ought to have PLENTY of access and say-so in how they’re raised. If the phrase “with rights comes responsibilities” is to be believed, then the reverse is also true–with responsibilities come rights.

Jonas You tell them about it!

LRH

Aren’t there laws regarding “falsly accusing” someone of a crime?
These people aren’t busybodies, they’re criminals and a really good lawyer can prove it. And isn’t it about time!
AARRRGGGHHHHH!

@Emily – sorry, but I my reaction was because I think you were the one that was nasty to Nicolas. You completely took his comment and twisted it and blew it out of proportion. And if you don’t wish to be part of the problem, do not read into simple comments and try and find some sort of ridiculous fault. And pulling a racial card on me? Where did that come from? You might as well Godwin this while you’re at it!

That said – you’re point is valid regarding why these prejudices exists – in part. However, we know that the number one reason is the “male sexual predator” that is so prevalent our media. Not because a husband and father has his kid alone.

Personally, when people look at me like I’m some sort of perv because I’m having fun with my kid, or even smiling and being playful with a kid who keeps looking at me and smiling, I just call them out. “Is there a problem?”. Most times they turn away. Sometimes they speak up…bad move. Because I usually end up putting them in their place and make them feel like the ignorant, self centered, paranoid, perverted thinking people they are. The good thing most of the time, is that the parent(s) of the child, never minds. And even tells the others to mind their own business.

@Emily: this is the internet. Unless someone blatantly makes derogatory remarks, don’t read between the lines. 9 out of 10 times, you will always mistake them, and end up looking sheepish. I didn’t see anything wrong with what Nicholas said. Maybe he’s the only bread winner in the family, and his wife is a stay at home mom. Which would mean she takes care of their kids full-time. He could be busy with work most times. So when he has time away from work (trying to make the effort to take time away from work), his comment of “…try to give my wife a break whenever possible”, is pretty accurate. There is no other way one can say that, given that scenario. I understand your all for women’s lib. But don’t get blinded by your beliefs. Some people take it way too seriously, and forget to use common sense. ie. helicopter parents. Different situation, still same mentality. It’s all about keeping an open mind, and not be so judgmental before you have all the facts.

Stories like this make me glad that I’m not in the States anymore. That craziness hasn’t come to Germany yet. My husband works from home and is the primary parent at home. I work full time. My son has had his friends sleep over while I was at work (I often work the late shift) and my husband was home with the boys. My son’s friends like coming over to my house when I’m at work because it’s like a “guy’s day” for them. None of the other parents seem to care. They are happy that somebody is with the boys. My son has also slept over at friends’ houses where only the father was home.

When my son was younger, and had babysitters, his favorites were always teenage boys. Male babysitters were more interested in things that he liked to do: have Yu-Gi-Oh duels, talk about sports, collect Pokemon cards, or simply go outside and kick a soccer ball.

My husband often takes my son out skiing with his friends, mainly because he’s the parent who can keep up with them. When my son was younger, my husband was the one who took him and his friends to the gym or playground. Again, the parents were happy that their kids had an adult nearby in case of an emergency. People over here don’t think anything of a man out in public with a couple of kids.

My son has also gone skiing with his friends’ fathers. The thought never crossed my mind that the other dads were perverts who were grooming my son. The dads tend to be the ones who are better skiers who do more of the “crazy” things that boys like to do. When my son is with his friends and their fathers, my thought is that he’s with other men who are good role models for how a man should be. My feeling is that the more male role models my son has, the better a man he will be when he grows up.

A little off topic, but what is the feeling toward male teachers in the States? Two out of the three teachers who are my son’s all-time favorites are men: his geography teacher from last year and his math teacher this year. In fact, my son is talking about wanting to become a teacher because of those men.

Anyone ever think that the dads say they are “babysitting” because they don’t have the right words to say what they are doing? Society has, up until fairly recently, assumed that all the child care was done by the mother. A man, until recently, was looked down on if he wanted to spend time with his kids. And I mean recently. Golly, it has only been in the last 10 years that they had changing tables in men’s rooms. (I have a friend who when his now 20 year old was a baby was told that “yes, you actually have to go stand in the rain outside the car and get the baby wet in order to change his diaper, because here at the home improvement store we will NOT tell women that you are in the lady’s room changing a diaper and will not stand in there with you.” So the fact that men might not have the words to say that they are in charge right now….stop bashing them for it.

As to the original poster, I think that he is great for getting custody of his kids. It sounds like he is doing a great job of getting everything done, despite the stupid people around him.

It is articles like this that make me worry about being a single man without kids. My cousin’s second child was just born; I am the godfather to their first. Since I am a 30some year old boy, I plan on taking the kids to see all the cool animated movies (which I would be seeing anyway) once they are old enough. Even now sometimes I get strange looks from parents sitting alone in a movie largely directed at kids. (The fact I dress like a biker does not help, but it’s fun to feak out the squares).

If a father cannot take his kids out without getting strange looks, I worry if I’m asking for trouble for wanting to take some younger members of my extended family out.

One of my most vivid memories in the months after my parent’s divorce when everything was so chaotic was my dad taking my shopping for my birthday. He wasn’t coming to my party, so he took me shopping and wrapped up what he’d bought me, so when it came time to open that present at the party, I though of him and for a moment it was like he was there. I look exactly like my father, and this was 25 years ago, so nobody thought anything of it. Or else, I didn’t notice.

Then there’s my husband who got horrible looks and comments when I was washing our baby’s binky off after it fell on the floor in the grocery store. She was pretty upset, and he was trying to comfort her as best as he could without her binky, but some old lady was like, “Where is that baby’s mother?”

Like a kidnapper is going to stand in the middle of a grocery store with the screaming baby he’s taken.

Yeah it is a total concept of the past that only men can do the child caring stuff. The men on my mom’s side of the family have that ideal. My uncle ran out of the room when I changed their diapers even if they just were pee diapers. Yet, he claims he wanted children. How dumb! They were all shocked when I told them my hubby changes diapers and gives bottles, etc.

The BBC showed a documentary last year called ‘A Century of Fatherhood’, which you can see on youtube, starting with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtVWh_tqRsM

It’s absolutely brilliant.

Great reminder! When my husband and I divorced and I started dating again, I wouldn’t even let my boyfriend be alone with her in any way for a whole year. The notion that all men are pigs was pretty well ingrained in me, I must admit! But really, so few are, and the ones I’m hanging out with are even less likely to be.

When a father says that he is babysitting his children, that leads to the above attitude where a man with a child is seen as an aberration. When a father is just “helping out” when he engages in parenting, that leads to the above.

That always drove my husband mad when the Monsters were small. “Oh, you’re helping out! How sweet!”, people would say. He would sort of glare, but not react. That changed one afternoon when Elder Monster looked at one of those fools and said “He’s my DAD, and he’s HANGING out with me because he LIKES TO!” And that was the end of him not reacting.

My niece was visiting over the weekend, and she kept pestering Uncle for piggyback rides at the waterpark. He got a lot of glares and stares, this Arab-American fella with the cute little Swede glued to him, even when she yelled “Giddyup, Uncle!” Instead of laughing with the guy making goofy fun with his niece, people acted like he was Satan incarnate. It’s all nonsense.

Peggy: Honestly even though I don’t believe all men are pervs or anything, I actually think not leaving a child alone with your boyfriend for a long time is a good idea. There have been child abuse and murders and molestations from the mother’s boyfriend. Some men will actually seek out single moms with kids in that way. It actually falls into the “Molested by someone the family knows” category. Even if the guy is perfectly nice it makes good sense to not trust him with your kids until you really really really get to know him well and that takes time. I think you made the right decision in that regard and if something ever happens to my husband and I start dating again, I will use that approach.

Even without molesting or murders, its not good for young children to have men come in and out of their lives regularly just because the mom dates someone. I have seen it happen with my single mom friends and their kids and it really heartbroke the kids when the boyfriend they liked a lot just stopped coming around because they broke up. The kids didn’t understand.

There is a big difference in trusting your spouse you have known a long time with their own child and leaving a boyfriend you just met a couple months ago alone with your child.

When my daughters were young, we did a lot of things when their mother (my first wife) was busy. Of course this was 40 years ago, before the various media went “loco” and needed bad things to fill a 24-hour “news hole”. One time I took them to San Francisco on the train (I worked for the railway at the time), and we stayed overnight in a hotel on Powell St. I just about had to get some safety harnesses because they liked to hang out the window watching the cable cars. Nowadays I’d probably need a notarized affidavit from their mom that it was OK for them to be out of town with me. We went to various sporting events as a threesome and even “camped out” in a caboose at the Railway Museum.
Many years later, long after the girls were grown, I was talking to a colleague about the upcoming weekend. He told me “I’m taking my daughters fishing,” and I commended his plan and said something like, “Years from now, when they’re grown women and you’re old and retired, they will look back on these fishing trips as fond memories of their younger days.”

Here’s some advice for those that truely want to protect kids: If you think you are witnessing a case of child abduction… ask the d*mn kid what’s wrong in a friendly manner. You’re still sticking your nose in someone else’s business but keeping it friendly. Don’t just jump to an immediate accusation. Half the time the kid shrinks back onto the father/responsable male they are acompanied by looking for protection from this stranger talking to them (aka you). The rest of the time they get quiet and start looking around to see who’s talking to them or just keep crying ignoring this friendly stranger who probably isn’t about to buy them the candy they are crying for. Any of these reactions is perfectly normal and signs of a healthy situation. In the case of a real emergency this gives the kid an option to say so. You can always follow up with “poor dear must be sleepy” or some other FRIENDLY comment and may actually start a nice conversation with a gentleman who is simply dealing with a stressful situation.

Likewise, parents teach your kids the right things to say should someone try to mess with them in an inapropropriate way: “Help, this isn’t my mommy/daddy!” or “I don’t belong here! Where’s my mommy/daddy!” These statements indicate a more distressing situation and are calls for help not just a cranky tantrum from a bad day or missed nap.

What is wrong with people that they would give a Dad being with his kids a crazy look?! Like I said, when I see a Dad with his kids I smile. So many Dads are not around for various reasons or are not involved with their kids. Nothing makes me happier than seeing an involved Daddy. I don’t get why people would give them mean looks. Maybe they are jealous because their Daddy never played with them.

One time one of my sons thought he was about to be kidnapped. It was pretty funny. I took my other son to the bathroom nearby and left other son on the playground. He was only about 20 feet from me. There was a wasp flying around him and a nice grandmother that was there with her grandson tried to pull him away from the wasp. I walked up about that point and my son had this horrified look on his face and he was about .2 seconds from freaking out. I think he thought she was kidnapping him. The grandmother was so embarrassed. She explained about the wasp and I can tell she was worried I was going to freak out on her since my son was about to freak out. I just laughed and told him it was okay and he calmed down. I guess its good to know if someone did try to kidnap him he would fight back.

@justme I’ve done that about 3 times.
1. Woman was dragging child from store. Child was screaming No, No, No and most importantly not addressing the woman by any name. I walked up and said to the child Are you alright. Kid stopped stunned. Then I said “Who is that?” kids said my mom. I said alrightly then. The Mom winked at me and the kid walked out with her. I heard the Mom saying “See you didn’t get what you wanted, and that woman nearly called the cops thinking you were being kidnapped.”

2. 2 Women were chasing a kid in a parking lot. They grabbed her and put her in the car. She bit one, kicked the other and scrambled out the other door. I punched in 911, walked over and yelled “Little Girl are you ok.” The kid stopped in her tracks. I asked who the women were she replied Mom and Ms. Something. I asked are you supposed to go with Mom and Ms Something? She said yes and got in the car. At that point I realized that they had an Autism advocacy sticker on the car. The Mom thanked me for being concerned. (I have to say on that one, I made note of the plate number just in case.) I’ve seen Ms Something at the store with several different kids at off peak times. I think she is some type of parent support or therapist working with children in the area.

3. Driving down the street. I see an older boy dragging a smaller boy down the street. The smaller boy is screaming help and seems to be fighting the younger boy. I stopped and got out of my car. I yelled are you playing or do you really need help? They both stopped, and said we are just playing. About that time their Dad came around the corner of the yard. I explained that I was just making sure they were just playing, because the boy was yelling help. Dad thanked me and suggested that they save help for real problems and yell I’ve been captured or something.

I’ve been bullied to the point my pediatrician was ready to call CPS due to the injuries. (He ended up threatening to report our districts’ administrators for failure to protect) Which is what made me stop for the 3rd incident.

I will always stop and try to access what is happening if a kid is screaming no and not addressing the person just screaming and being dragged. A schoolmate was rescued from a kidnapper, because two older ladies asked her if she was ok. (she was screaming no at him). That stayed with me.

Nicholas Semrau, on July 9, 2011 at 09:54 said:

Don’t worry about it Emily; I wasn’t offended, Live and let live, you know what I mean?

You are a nice guy, Nicholas. Your wife sounds like a lucky girl, and your love for her is precious.

You may not be offended, but many of us were. Frankly, I cringe at such self centeredness. “Giving my wife a break” implies a break in her routine – not her forced enslavement. Give ME a break!

I was a stay at home mom for 16 years. My husband worked overtime at a blue collar job for me to be able to, once going 10 months without a day off just so I could stay home with our kids.

I love him and bless his hard working little heart to this day.

He got up at 4:30 A.M. to scrape mountains of snow off our roof in sub zero weather in Minneapolis before working 8 hours out in that sub zero weather, his mustache and beard a frozen block of ice when he came home. The weather reports warned about keeping pets indoors so their eyeballs wouldn’t freeze, yet my husband was out there every single day. For us.

He mowed the lawn, fixed flat tires and cars that wouldn’t start. I don’t ever remember him cooking a meal, cleaning toilets or washing dishes – all things being EQUAL, don’t cha know – but then I’ve never once changed a tire in a driving rain storm or dug trenches to install a sprinkler system.

There wasn’t much time left for him to “give me a break”. I could have used it, but “breaks” were rare, usually once a year on mother’s day. My “break” usually consisted of lying on a blanket by a stream, reading a delicious book while devouring a huge bag of chocolate ALL BY MYSELF while he took the kids hiking.

As a mother, I feel the most loving gesture I ever gave my children was to always show them the love and appreciation I have for their father. He has certainly given them the same gift.

I am Australian. I saw this on my ‘handheld’ just as I was leaving for the farmers’ market, my Saturday morning pleasure. It made me very aware of the (large number) of dads out and about with their child/ren, with no mother in sight.

I regularly see dads pushing strollers, carrying babies in slings or accompanied by a couple of kids of various ages. Yesterday I also watched the reaction of others to the dads. I have to say everyone was basically getting on with their business and letting everyone else do the same. I didn’t sense any anxiety, disapproval or negative stuff of any kind.

When I have noticed reactions it’s usually about dads’ (suspected) lack of skill at parenting. As an example, some time back I watched two senior members of the female tribe watching a dad with a preschooler in a supermarket and commenting to each other on his unskilled management of the child’s at first request for a sweet and later screaming tantrum over same. The first response was the standard dad one – ‘no’! After the child had escalated hostilities to a certain point the dad gave in. The women’s comments to each other were ‘He was always going to say yes, why didn’t he just say yes first off’. Indeed. And they most emphatically did not let the dad know that they were rating his parenting.

The discourses are out there ‘all men are pervs!’ and this gets rolled out at various times and by various people (It’s the kind of judgemental nonsense beloved of sanctimonious busybodies).

Hand on my heart, I do not believe it forms part of the standard repertoire of Australian’s responses to each other.

@kherbert
Thank you for those wonderful examples of how to get involved and still keep things friendly! It shows more concern and less judgement of doom than the agressive accusations that could cause a real abductor to grab and run. It’s important to ask the child what is happening. Kids know if somthing doesn’t feel right. Likewise, the adult feels more like your concedrned for the child rather than being agressive to them.

Likewise, all three of your examples provided the parents with an opening for a teaching moment. “You see, crying like that made that nice lady worry about you. You shouldn’t scare people acting like that.”

I am a single father and have been the main custodial parent since my son was 9 months old. He is now 14.

We live in one of the most affluent sections of Los Angeles California and my son is a straignt A student.

We are doing well.

Except that each and every time we went to the park I was given “the look” and only once in 14 years was a discussion had with me. I was not allowed a report card at public school, I switched to private.

I was spy’d on at private school by the moms and teachers for my ex who enrolled the school moms in her attempt to regain custody, this went on till my son was 12 and she left town with her new millionaire husband.

I have seen it all and been though it all, why? I simply love my son and wish to help him with his homework. He needs the help and my ex is too lazy to do it.

I am also very intelligent and socially aware and have made a study of the matter.

My conclusion is that this is just another battle in the war against fathers. Men gladly and foolishly embraced feminism. Women selfishly and wisely fought agains male encroachment on the female spere of child raising and this post reflects the current front lines.

This problem is getting worse because women are not so quietly fighting every attempt by men to have meaningful relationships with their children. It’s simple selfishness, power madness and vindictiveness.

The young moms are doing what women do well which is to “queen bee” and exclude unwanteds at the park. The government addicted to the never failing female block vote acceeds to all demands of the gynocracy no matter how luney or detrimental to he children.

Since more men are taking a role in their childrens lives women are ramping up the action. Soon men will be accused of child abuse for taking their children to the park until laws are passed then men will no longer take their children to the park.

It won’t work. You can kick men out of relationships and make marriage a mine field but men naturally love their children.

And we all know alternative family forms mean any form that does not include a father. Nice try getting a single dad to say…oh, yeah, that’s me, alternative family. The silence of men is all we’re allowed to say.

By the way, though most men care too much about sleeping in their beds to admit it, most men on here and everywhere else think exaclty like this.

I find it curious that we as a culture accept the neurotic projections of people and their politics as somewhat valid.

To say “I am giving my wife a break” does not translate into your own personal experience or politic. Yet we are quite comfortable to project our myopic little bias’s like we are heroes saving the world.

I could fully understand responding with what that statement may mean to you in your own experience. Doing this may further a discussion that may contribute to a better outcome of understanding, it’s a responsible step forward.

But projecting your experience in judgment on another person has become a social disease of very poor communication skills and even less common respect. Are we so childish that we must project the disdain of our experience on anyone we see fit, requiring them to answer for what we cannot and will not resolve in ourselves.

If this is representative of empowerment, why do I as a man and a father and a person have to be your empowerment therapist.

I have an autistic son that I took swimming every Sunday. In the play ground outside he was trying to engage some older boys in play. I was standing chatting with their mother (who for some reason unknown to me needed to know if I was the father or the grandfather)
Her son ran up to report that my son had asked him or had said to him “touch me”. Two words that immediately came under neurotic scrutiny. I however knew exactly what he meant, those are the words he uses when he wants to play tag and informed her of such. (my son has not developed full speech)

The next week I was greeted in the pool by a councilor, who introduced herself and spent the next two and a half hours observing me at play with my son. What was the charge or crime? Sick little dark images in the minds of family members trying to be heroes in a dark neurotic culture of victims.

We see only what we want and we project that on anyone who comes close to representing our experience. They become guilty of our sick little images, because we are to empowered to resolve them.
Sick sick sick.

Donn, that post had nothing to do with feminism and a whole heck of a lot to do with drug addiction. And a whole lot to do with social workers who have not been trained in the signs of drug addiction.

That said, sometimes the system is stacked against fathers. But had I been that father, I would have been talking to the lawyer a whole lot sooner to protect my kids. I would have had a recorder in my pocket and had it going in a loop so that I could have taped a whole conversation where she said she was going to kill the kids. Then, kids and I would have been out of there. No waiting 17 years.

No, that’s not the facts Keith. I work in the criminal justice system and we frequently represent women charged with domestic violence against their men. I frequently represent clients who have custody of their children over the mother because the mother has been deemed unfit, usually due to drugs. I have male friends who have had courts grant them custody of their children in a divorce.

I’m not saying that the system treats men and women equally. Men are more likely to be viewed the aggressor. Women are given preferential status as it relates to children in family courts and CPS. It is much easier to get charges dropped against the woman than a man when the injured party changes his/her mind about prosecuting (which happens in about 99% of domestic violence cases). “Battered man syndrome” doesn’t exist although it is assumed in most cases that the woman victim who changes her story or asks for charges to be dropped is doing so because she suffers from “battered woman syndrome” (rather than she’s a lying POS). But men are far from completely powerless in the system.

And I witnessed a judge slap down the mother and tell her that she was alienating the child’s affection for his father and if she didn’t stop she was going to loose custody. (And was actually in the courtroom and read the court’s order stating as much so I am not relying on a one-sided version of events from my friend).

I’ve seen a man get sole custody of his child simply because the mother wanted to move out of state and the judge refused to allow her to take the child away from his father.

There are good judges and bad judges. There are good decisions and bad decisions. There are differences from state to state. So we can play tit-for-tat all day with some examples coming out on either side. Women definitely have the advantage but the sweeping view of Keith’s that men are just doomed is not true.

The men that win fight back; they don’t just sit back for 17 years (and continue to produce children with a nutcase) and let things happen. My friend in example 1 let his ex run him through hoops for 2 years. He finally said “enough,” hired an attorney, sued for custody and got a very reasonable visitation agreement that involves no hoops. My friend in example 2 hired an attorney and got an order preventing his ex from removing the child from the state the second he got wind of the thoughts of moving. The gentleman Donn posted about eventually fought back and won.

I got to say I think Keith has a point. I have seen good men get screwed out of seeing their kids by the less than great mothers. Heck, my own husband knows the score. He knows because we have discussed it that if he ever leaves me, I could make his life a living hell and his relationship with his kids would be destroyed if I wanted to do so. It would be easy. I am the stay at home parent. I am the parent that handles everything. I am the parent they are closest to and the most knowledgeable parent about childcare. I would get full custody easily enough should I seek it. Then I could turn them against him if I wanted to and unless he got concrete evidence I was doing so, there is not much he could do about it.

That’s just the way it goes. Thus why I warn men especially DON’T have kids with a woman of bad caliber or who you do not plan to be with forever, because she can and will screw you hard about seeing your kids if you split up. Use protection!

These stories make me glad I live in an older city (Buffalo). Sometimes it feels like my city is stuck 40 years in the past while the rest of the country has moved on, but there are definitely positive sides to that as well. People here for the most part retain a traditional neighborliness (we aren’t called the City of Good Neighbors for no reason). I have *never* experienced the kinds of comments or looks talked about here, and I go all sorts of places with my son – playgrounds, museums, markets, swimming lessons, parks, etc. We ride my bicycle together to the park or zoo, with him in his child seat. Perhaps I’m completely naive about people’s attitudes, but I doubt it. Most of the time I get smiles and friendly comments, if anything.

Even though many families have moved out to the suburbs, in my city neighborhood I still see plenty of kids playing by themselves on the sidewalks or yards, or riding bikes around the neighborhood, or playing hockey on the side streets. I’m very glad I don’t have to live under the paranoid hyperscrutiny that so many others apparently do.

I could make his life a living hell and his relationship with his kids would be destroyed if I wanted to do so. It would be easy. I am the stay at home parent. I am the parent that handles everything. I am the parent they are closest to and the most knowledgeable parent about childcare. I would get full custody easily enough should I seek it. Then I could turn them against him if I wanted to and unless he got concrete evidence I was doing so, there is not much he could do about it.

Geez, Dolly.

Your husband must feel like the luckiest guy in America.

….not.

I hope to God you are”just kiddin'”.

…someday, some woman will be saying these words to YOUR son…and she may NOT be just kiddin’.

This is the legacy you are cursing your own son(s) with. The fate in store for them…and the woman in his life may not be as ‘benevolent” as you are.

At least you better hope your future Daughter In Law “allows” you in his life, as well as your Grandchildren. If you think your husband doesn’t count that much, look at how much less his mother does.

Why would you teach your sons to accept, and even expect such utter disrespect and abuse?

Do you not love them? Because if that’s your idea of “love”, it’s a terrible pity.

Your sons are not capable of loving their own children as much or as freely as their mother? Your son(s) is unworthy of “equal” love from his children? Just the partial love parceled out and monitored by the (hopefully) “wiser” mother of his children? Love that can be yanked out from under him at the first whiff and whim her judgement decrees?

Because we are not talking about other people’s sons here…we’re talking about Y.O.U.R.S.

My son in law is in Afghanistan while my daughter is home with us, pregnant with their second child. There is no “I’m doing you a BIG FAVOR” attitude going on with his children. No “I’m the IMPORTANT PARENT, Daddy’s just here as long as he cooperates with me” messages to his children.

Are you the sort of person you would want to be married to? If your partner made these threats and statements regarding your relationship, would be OK with it?

Dolly’s husband:

I could make her life a living hell and her relationship with her kids would be destroyed if I wanted to do so. It would be easy. I am the provider. I am the parent that holds the purse strings. I am the parent they are obligated to and the person most capable of providng for them. I would get full custody easily enough should I seek it. Then I could turn them against her if I wanted to. They know who pays the bills and which side their bread is buttered – I taught them what’s most important. MONEY. She’s a penniless loser, and I’m the bread winner.

BTW, Dolly – PAS is denied by most feminist groups, and not recognized in most court systems.

Sgtmom: You owe me an apology for getting so insulting with me when I am on the same side as you!!!! Hello!!! I think men should have equal rights when it comes to their kids and making decisions on whether they want a baby to be born or not or being able to sign away their rights etc. My POINT was that as of right now, that is NOT the case. I was agreeing with the posters saying men are at a disadvantage in our system and gave an example of how I could screw my own husband if I wanted to. I stand by it would be easy and totally possible. He would have to pay me alimony too.

“I would like to think that couples share childcare equally”

If both are working the same number of hours outside the home and earning generally comparative incomes, I’d like to think so too. But just as often, one works more hours outside the home and earns more of the income, and thus it makes sense that the other would and should devote more hours to childcare. On average, men choose to work more hours outside the home than women, but this is not always the arrangement.

I do the lion’s share of the childcare and housework while my husband does the lion’s share of the income earning, and even I say I’m “giving my husband a break” when I “let” him go out with the guys on a Saturday afternoon and I field the kids alone. I wonder what that says about my expectations…

You know, growing up, I spent a lot more time out and about with my dad than with my mom. Not sure why, but he was more involved in the out of the house stuff with kids than she was. I’d go weekly grocery shopping with him as a girl. I don’t get the idea he was ever looked on as potentially perverted those 20-30 years ago. Why the shift, especially when dads are presumably supposed to be MORE involved with their kids now than in the previous generation?

But I also wonder if people aren’t taking offense and assuming judgment where not judgment or offense is intended. If someone actually says something to you like — hey, what are you doing with that kid! (as in this original story) — that’s one thing, but if you just assume that some “look” means some judgmental thing — maybe it doesn’t. I give people the benefit of the doubt most of the time.

Try being a widowed dad with three kids.

I let my kids go to the park by themselves (shock I know). When I do come to pick them up, I inevitably see 15 kids with 15 moms with death glares directly on their kids. I show up, and it’s like when you see a school of thousands of fish that all move at the exact same time. EVERY SINGLE MOM takes three or four steps closer to their precious spawns.

I’ve even been toldf by one lady on a bus that I shouldn’t lie to my kids about their mom being dead, as she must have a good reason for leaving them. “Yea, it’s called dying from cancer.”

It’s a neat package of hatred and vitriol Donna. I’m curious can you give an example of any of your claims that could be easily viewed in the media. Or in the public consciousness. Or is this outlook just your very special view of insight with your very special eyes?

Are you actually honest with your representations or are you offering your own version of bias, bigotry, and misandry. Is there a special man in your life that is special because of who he is instead of who you say he is. Or do all men square down to your very special hatred for them.

I have a metaphor to describe special people like you.

You plant a fruit tree and tell the tree it will receive no water until it bears fruit and you only water it by the amount of fruit it bears for your benefit.

It’s your special view of humanity, enjoy it, nobody else does.

ps- Notice I am not accusing you of being a horrible person and your spouse being oh so unlucky to be married to you or your future DIL being oh so unlucky to have you as a MIL just because you thought up a horrible scenario of shooting a husband in their sleep or driving over them with the kids in the car. You know why??? Because I know you wouldn’t do it nor did you say you would! You just said you could. Which is a true fact. Anyone CAN do anything, but it is what they Do that really matters.

Dolly, dear – I said those words to Y.O.U. I would no more discuss how I “could” ruin my husband’s life with him anymore than I would discuss how I “could” ruin my children’s life with them .

I didn’t “think up” those horrible scenarios – I lifted them directly from the news…in which case each and every woman got off scott free.

At no time did I say you were “bad” for “thinking up” such things. Speaking for myself, I would no more say something like that to my husband than I would say something like that to my kids – implication being my husband’s feelings and trust in me is as valuable as my children’s are.

Listing all the rotten, dishonest things I “could” do to my employer – but of course WON’T – somehow doesn’t seem like a good tactic to reinforce what an outstanding employee I am. My husband seems happy enough not knowing all the heinous ugly things I’m not going to do to him.

Does that make sense?

More dads need involved in their daughter’s shopping to help offset the poor fashion decisions taken by girls especially in today’s fashion set of sexualizing clothes. Most girls and even moms really don’t have a full sense of how their male counterparts think, and how could they? They’ve never been male right?
Dads, speak to your daughters and wives about the truth of how guys think, what happens in the body chemistry when a female wearing something alluring goes by. Perhaps, just maybe, if enough people at least make an attempt to avoid the clothes that make daughters look older than they ought, and certainly more ‘showing’ than they ought for any occasion, maybe those designing the clothes and stores selling them will feel the pinch enough to supply some more modest choices.
here’s to hoping.

Someday, some post here won’t end in ridiculous off-topic rants and arguments. Or even on topic rants and arguments.

I absolutely feel your pain on this issue. My father ended up with my sister and I when my mother ran off. He was a single father (of two girls, age 3 & 5) at the ripe old age of 22. This was the early 80’s, so he had it harder and easier than you, in some regards. He was in a lot of uncharted territory for a Dad (he led our Girls Scout troop, for example). However, I really feel like there was far less speculation of him being a potential perv. If anything, because he was a young and caring father, he seemed to be a magnet for the bevy of single MOTHERS at our school (again, the early 80’s, it seemed like a lot of my friends had single moms and “weekend” dads). Keep up the good work!