An Open Letter to the Lady Who Shut My 8-Year-Old Daughter Out of Youth Lacrosse

Sorry, but this all falls on the letter writer. There are limits placed on the number of players per team for very good reasons. The most important being playing time. The more players you have on a team the less time each player gets to play. And as a player and coach there is one thing we all know. Too much time riding the pine will lead to young players loosing interest in the sport.

Later on when players are older and even more so in competitive leagues, players understand that being on the bench is part of the sport. The better players start and you are there to replace them in important situations.

I feel your pain. We moved into our town in August, thereby never having a chance to sign our five year old up for soccer ahead of time. This is youth town soccer. I was told absolutely not, as registration occurs in the spring. The next year I signed him up and registered to coach. I found out then that although registration is in the spring they don’t even make up the teams until September. Give me one good reason you shut out a 5 year old that was just trying to make friends in a new town!

For a parent looking for a fun active outlet for a young child, it is not unreasonable for them to be in the dark about how competitive and popular these things have become. Feb. 1st should be WELL in advance for summer activities (it is for most overnight and daycamps). I was floored myself when I found out that they were signing the kids up for tee-ball (TEE-ball!) in January. Luckily they had an “overflow” team, where you wouldn’t play at your local parks (but my town is 6 square miles – not a biggie). It sounds like the LW needs to ask about additional teams being arranged (and volunteering for same).

I agree with the comments above. Whoever is organizing youth sport has not just limited physical room and volunteers. She has also limits on how much time of forces she has. At some point she is doing what she can organize in her free time. Sometimes even having one more volunteer wont help you, because you will then have to organize one more person. Especially when that volunteer is not experienced in that sport and wont be self-sufficient (will a lot of help).

The easiest way to burn out is to never say no on one more task. The emotional plead in the letter is nice try, but is ultimately unfair to organizers. They are not un-inclusive by having limit on how much they can do. That is absurd. It is ok to try to negotiate a bit, but quite frankly, trying to use open letter and public pressure on them is going too far and a bit disrespectful too. Making them responsible for lack of girls sport is royally unfair, they are already doing more then most.

There not being enough of sport for girls is not a problem of the lacross team nor women cant handle another kid. It is problem resources distribution (town sponsoring boys more? sport league assuming girls are unintersted? someone else?) That one should be target for letters, not coach.

Lastly, if you never played lacrosse, I don’t think you can teach children how to do it. People who sign for organized sport often want their kids to be taught right technique and habits. If you really mean the sport to be entry point for more serious competitions as it sound to, then it is very important to learn right technique early on. You cant become coach like that in two weeks. The mom could help with certain things, but not with coaching itself.

Sorry, I’m with the “gatekeeper” on this one. There are only so many hours in a day when children are not in school, only so many coaches, only so many practice fields, and only so many children that can get into programs. Not only that, but many states have laws regarding what’s commonly known as a “kid-to-adult ratio” and it’s based on the ages of the children. For example, my 5 year old started soccer last summer. There are 36 slots in his group (5-6 year olds) and at least 3 coaches (though usually 4) because the ratio is 12 kids:1 adult for that age group. When he was in the younger group, there were 4 coaches (usually 5) because the ratio was 9 kids: 1 adult.

So, while I understand the point of wanting all kids to have a chance to participate, it’s not just about the kids. At least mom is owning the fact that she didn’t have her act together…though perhaps she needs to own it a bit more. This was her fault for not getting the kid registered on time.

There are many things kids can do that aren’t sports, but they require parents to be involved in creating those things. Baseball doesn’t just “happen”, it requires coaches, fields, dues, jerseys, sponsors, schedules and more. All of that DOES happen because the parents (who fill most of those roles, and pay those fees) value and appreciate Baseball, and we’re used to Baseball being a perennial thing. Here’s one example: My kids are not terribly “sportsy”, and as such we’ve started a Robotics team (with First Lego League and First Lego League Junior). We have practices, design days, presentation days, and even an annual competition with the hundreds of other teams in our area, which if we were to qualify (yes its competitive!) we’d go on to state, national and even international competition. This year we didn’t win (boo), but there’s always next year. This is just ONE example of many things that are out there. Its not all Baseball and Boy Scouts. MAKE YOUR OWN EVENTS! Start an art club, make a community garden, go skiing, help the elderly. Don’t bemoan the darkness, light a candle.

It’s unfortunate that it seems like there’s no alternative to this organized sport, but mom here is acting like a special snowflake. Nobody here knows how many kids the league is able to take, whether this year was fuller than usual, whether a team sponsoring organization had to drop out, nothing. The fact that your sons got in despite your inconsiderate attitude toward deadlines means you got away with it the past, it doesn’t mean that the Thurmond kids are always entitled to a spot regardless of how little concern their mom has for things like deadlines.

Your 8 year old is paying the price BECAUSE OF YOUR ACTIONS. The league is not making her pay the price, you are, because you couldn’t pull off a signup on time. Saying you take full responsibility but then suggesting they’re the ones making her “pay the price” is nonsense.

I say this as someone whose kids have missed things because I’ve missed deadlines. It’s true, not all moms are super-organized and life happens and things can be missed without it being a horrible crime on our part. But it IS our responsibility, if something is important for our kids to do, that we take the steps to make sure it happens, rather than expecting that the people who give their time and energy to run these activities for kids make sure of it for us. That’s what being a grownup, even a not very organized one, means.

Scouting

I have had a child in Fall, Winter & Spring sports for the last 15 years. In the large sports like AYSO soccer, Little League & even park district sports, there are very specific dates to sign up. GROW UP & BE AN ADULT. Follow the rules like everyone else. WHY DO YOU THINK YOU ARE SO SPECIAL MOM? AYSO had a Fall sign up day for the next year (yes, you signed up around 10 months before the season starts!) You have to do this because all of these organizations are run by volunteers & they need to find 50-100 volunteer coaches per park. It is this mother’s fault that her child can’t play Lacrosse. Don’t blame the volunteer. Tell the mother that her daughter can play club Lacrosse if she wants to shell out $2000-5000 per year, otherwise, she needs to sign up on time and do volunteer hours. People like this make me sick!

It is unfortunate, Wendy, that you missed the cutoff. It is too bad that your child suffers as a result, but there is a good free-range lesson to be learned all around…but not the one you imply. Our actions have consequences. Sometimes is it the actions of others that result in one suffering consequences. Sometimes the consequences involve significant disappointment. It is perfectly fine for a child to suffer from disappointment. Your daughter will not be scarred for life if she doesn’t play lacrosse this year. To me, your letter is trying to deflect responsibility.

The fact that you tried to sign up after the close of registration and were told that you would be placed on a “waiting list” is a VERY reasonable thing. As other commenters have mentioned, it may be a matter of playing space or coaches. It could just be that they have filled out an even number of balanced teams at this point and are keeping a waiting list hoping that they can fill out 2 more teams with minimal shuffling. The thought of “why can’t they just add one more” only applies if you are the only one asking. And at some point they do have to put a stake in the ground to set their teams…and continuing to add as things trickle in makes MUCH more of a mountain of work than I think that you seem to realize.

If you REALLY cared about the situation, you would have entered into a dialogue with the coordinator to understand her position, needs, and limitations to see if there was a way you could lighten her burden to make it easier for your daughter to be included. Rather, you jump to conclusions and try to embarrass and persecute her publically.

I have been late for a registration of this sort before…I had been extremely ill (barely out of bed, lost 30 lbs in less than 4 weeks) AND my husband at the same time was hospitalized very ill with a “stroke” to his colon that almost resulted in the loss of almost half his colon) and they had changed to an earlier registration date that year. Of course I asked if they would accept it…and I would have completely understood getting the response you did even though my circumstances were so dire. Never would it have occurred to me to try to pawn off the responsibility of it publicly like you have. Just plain rude.

@Vaughan Evans
“Why is it illegal for children to organize their own games at a park?”

Because Things Are Different Now ™

Thomas Clancy says baseball doesn’t just happen. It used to. Kids with balls and bats in an open field, choose up sides. Maybe not even a full game but something like two-old-cat. Somebody’s hat would be a base.

If the deadline has passed, I guess you wait for the next season to roll around, and take it as a lesson learned.

But the reason this story is on the Free-Range Kids site, as you see in Lenore’s commentary, is because kids who aren’t in an organized program often have a hard time scaring up a game to play. Most of the athletic neighborhood kids will be at thrice-weekly practices and games rather than hanging around waiting for a pick-up game in the park.

We were involved in youth soccer and basketball for a few years and didn’t love the systematized nature of it. It reminded me of Disneyland, where the parents are trying so hard to create a perfect childhood experience, they don’t notice that the kids are often getting dragged along for the ride rather than competing of their own volition. I know there are kids who live and breathe their sport, and that’s great. But what about kids who just want to play tag and red rover, or have a game of kickball in the grass? Just try fielding a team for something like that. You can’t – the neighborhood streets and parks are deserted because it’s unacceptable for kids to simply play. Instead, in hopes of getting their children out in the sunshine, parents are signing their toddlers up for soccer – even those toddlers who really just want to play on the swings or dig in the sand pile.

Agree with the others, this is 100% on the mom. YES to the Special Snowflake comment!! MOM missed the deadline so instead of owning up she’s teaching her kid to put blame on someone else. And honestly, this child is 8 YEARS OLD. Pretty sure this isn’t going to be the last opportunity she ever has to play lacrosse.

Beyond that, I have to say that while I really like this site and Lenore’s articles, I do think that this part: “These days, if a kid is not in organized sports, there is nothing else for him or her to do, since kids don’t organize their own games anymore. How can they, when it is almost illegal for them to be at the park on their own, unsupervised?” is really more inflammatory than anything!!! Really, NOTHING else for them to do besides team sports? That whole quote is just fear-mongering doom and gloom. I guess maybe when that’s your focus maybe that’s all you see.

I realize that there is a problem in our country with over-sheltering and not letting kids play and do their thing, and parents getting in trouble for their choices. And I think it’s important to shed light on that. BUT I think it’s important to note there most certainly ARE places in the US where kids run around, play, walk/bike to school, hang in packs and make up games, and do LOTS AND LOTS of other things besides either playing and organized sport or sitting on the couch. My neighborhood is just like that and I am eternally grateful. Any parent who doesn’t have that, and wants it for their kid, needs to stop whining and complaining and relying on outside forces and make things happen!

@Julie

Don’t you think that long list of people have better things to do than have their time wasted by some mom who thinks their kid is a special snowflake. In fact calling the police/fire officials because your kid didn’t get put on some team is in my opinion the definition of a crazy helicopter parent. And as a business owner if I started getting calls from crazy helicopter moms I think I would just stop sponsoring the team.

I don’t see how this is a free range issue. This is a life lesson, be on time. Think and plan ahead. Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part. Next year sign up on time

@Julie – Nope back at you. No where are we provided information as to why there was a need for the waitlist. There may be a VERY compelling reason. By your own admission, your spoke with people involved with soccer, basketball, baseball, and football – are there different considerations than they may be aware of with lacrosse? I don’t know, and I would suspect that you (and they) don’t either. Wendy didn’t take the time to find out more BEFORE she set out to shame them into action. Seems to me that your response (and hers) is that the mom should just bully her kid’s way in.

Nor does Wendy imply that they are new in town and moved in after the deadline. She does, in fact, reference that she is a late registrant on more than one occasion…a habitual offender so-to-speak. To bring the discussion of a newcomer to town (although mentioned by a commenter for their situation) to part of the defense of Wendy’s action is disingenuous. Does not apply.

Sorry mom, if your child being in an organized sport is so important to you then you need to register on time. I suspect the league has a limited amount of equipment and space. A whole lot of other busy parents managed to find the time to register on time too. If the child learning to play lacrosse is the important part, how about going out to a used sporting goods store, buying a couple of sticks and a ball, making a trip to the library and checking out a how to play lacrosse book or video and then taking your kid to the park to toss the ball around. Then circle the first day of registration on your calendar for next year.

I should not have re-read this because it just makes me annoyed but here:

“I am taking full blame for my tardiness” FULL STOP right here. The rest is just noise and whining.

Sorry Mom – you missed the boat and are trying to blame someone else for your mistake and that’s not nice.

There are deadlines for a reason, not to shut kids out but to allow for procuring equipment, facilities, supplies, resources, game scheduling, team assignments, each player’s playtime, etc. There could be legal and insurance liability reasons too with the number of people using facilities at the same time as well. This is hardly a free-range vs. helicopter issue, by a long shot.

There’s more to life than just one sport. Wendy should take the opportunity to discover with her daughter the hundreds of other sports and leisure activities that can equally develop her daughter and enjoy the journey. This is an opportunity for mom to teach her daughter that life has its bumps in the road, and guide her daughter to discover another activity to enjoy until she can apply on time next time.

If I’m being compassionate, I would have to guess that if my kids REALLY wanted to play lax with their friends and I missed the sign up, I’d probably be very bummed and sad and really want some miracle to take place to get them on the team.

But that doesn’t really change the dynamics are work in regard to all the resources that go into running a league (that have been mentioned).

When my kids had to attend summer camp at the Y, there was literally a line hours and hours before the sign up started because people didn’t want a session they want (or needed in the case of working parents) to be full. Needing child care > wanting to play lax, but the Y still had to set limits.

I would suggest that you keep checking in with them between now and when the season begins — and even a week or so after the season starts. You might get lucky that slots open up.

Have you ever posted something that got more “no”s than this? 🙂

Horrors! If they don’t get into super-organized everything as little babies, how will they have the creds for Harvard or Stanford or MIT? If only they could console themselves by playing in the street or in the park with friends! The park is off-limits to everyone except tattle-tales calling CPS or the cops. And all the other advantaged suburban kids have well-organized parents who get their kids enrolled the first day of sign-up.

I had a similar problem with cub scouts for my son, and wound up as den leader for three years because the stay-at-home moms got heir kids signed up early and all the available slots were gone. I am a single mom, had a very demanding job, but my son really wanted to be in cubs, so I pushed for adding another den. And paid for it for three years.

Be careful what you wish for!

The Free Range issue here is … teaching children the importance of deadlines.

Meeting a deadline is usually the first requirement for getting what you want.

Isn’t this letter a reflection of the exact Special Snowflake syndrome that we hope to avoid in our children? Mom missed the deadline, but expects everyone else to bend over backward to accommodate her kid. Suck it up Buttercup, and explain to your kid that you missed the deadline so she will not be able to play lacrosse this year and then be on time next year if kiddo still wants to play. Kid will probably be mad at mom for awhile for missing the deadline if this is something that she really wants to do, but it will pass. Kid will be disappointed, but will learn that she is not going to die from being disappointed.

In our area the rec department sports teams basically fall into 2 categories: sports with a set number of spots due to capacity limits and team sports that will take anyone, but have firm deadlines for registration. Sports in group 1 will take kids until the number limit is met. There is no deadline, and, I assume would take kids even after the semester started if spots were available (spots fill within hours so this has never been a consideration). The team sports will take every kid who registers up until the deadline. After the deadline, no kids can register. Once registration ends, the rec department decides how many teams it needs, get coaches for the teams, assign teams, set practice and game schedules, etc. You can’t do all this if kids can just be registered willy nilly.

@warren — and every single one of those (should you believe in them) indicates that this one kid deserves special treatment because of who they know. The rest of the kids (parents) that didn’t call in favors just followed the rules and are sitting on waiting list.

So all it teachers everyone involved is that if you want it bad enough, you can try harassing enough people to get what you want.

As a coach, I do feel bad for the daughter BUT the mother was late in signing her up. There are lots of good reasons to cap the enrollment for anything. Yes, yes sports are important but there are reasons for the cap. Safety, for one. Quality of the program, for another. It IS “just” youth sports but if the team was overfull and the coach had a hard time with more kids than normal (which could become a safety issue), providing good instruction, etc.

I run into this alllll the time with swim meets. We provide the parents plenty of notice that the final date to enter a meet is XYZ. We remind the kids. We send out e-mails. Yet parents get all bent out of shape when we cannot accommodate their child with an entry 2 days before the meet. It’s not “just one” kid who is effected by a late entry; it’s the hundreds other kids from the 10+ other team AND the officials AND…. who have to deal with it.

Look, we understand, “Grandma died and we’re just now catching up on life” but run of the mill lateness? No, sorry, it’s on you.

EMSC, who has four kids of her own

I’m old enough to remember when sports registration flyers actually consisted of a piece of paper which oftentimes got shoved to the bottom of a backpack, only to emerge months after the deadline, covered with food particles and mildew!

No excuses now – with email blasts, I know every time a street light goes out in my suburb of 18,000. And most, if not all, of the registration for sports takes place on line, with multiple reminders via email about deadlines. Missed the deadline? Sorry, but a place on the wait list is an awfully nice option to have.

And i agree with others about the other Julie’s suggestions – those ideas all smack of entitlement to me. Definitely not a free range issue.

Julie, you’re basically trying to explain to us that people aren’t special snowflakes because there are ways that people can push others around to treat them like special snowflakes.

People who miss deadlines are not special snowflakes. People who think that deadlines are for the little people and everybody in the county should mvoe heaven and earth to let their kid play anyway, are special snowflakes.

” tardiness in regards to enrollment…” You give your regards to Broadway. “In regard to.”

I have coached my daughter’s basketball team the past few years. Year 1 we had 13 girls — too many to all get quality play time. I was given the choice to coach all 13 or find another parent crazy enough to coach and then split them up. That’s a lot to place on a 1st time volunteer. We had several kids ask to play once they saw the girls playing. . .but we couldn’t add any more to our team. And, it was too late to split them off into two teams since the league schedule had already been developed. I would have let every kid play who wanted to — but there was just no way to make it happen. I think most volunteers and rec directors would be more than happy to accommodate every kid that wants to play — but I’m with the other commenters. Sometimes wanting isn’t enough–there are often logistical barriers such as # of coaches, available practice space, schedules coordinated among multiple teams and towns.

Its sad to see a mom resort to public shaming — a tactic that is becoming all to common lately — in an attempt to humiliate the rec coordinator who, in all reality, would probably like to help but has her hands tied by factors that are not under her control.

“As adults it is our responsibility to nurture and assist kids and families not scoff at and belittle them.”

@Julie – does that responsibility apply to the people who don’t have access to that list of people you provided, or is it only the people who have those connections who should be entitled to that help and the rest, well, too bad for them?

And it takes an incredibly entitled special snowflake to believe the people on that list don’t have more important things in their lives than spending their time getting someone ahead of others on the waitlist because they didn’t make signing up for that league a priority.

I’m not seeing the “Free Range” angle here. Whoever runs this program–presumably a few (or no) paid staff and a lot of generous volunteers–set a cutoff date, and the program filled up by that date, and now other people are trying to get in. No harm in asking, but I can’t see blaming the organization for saying “We’re full.” These things take a lot of work and planning.

Mrs. Thurmond argues that sports are wonderful and healthy and so on, and no one disagrees. And then she goes from there to “You–you there, that lady sitting over there–you *OWE* my daughter this sport.” That feels like the opposite of free range to me. You, Mrs. Thurmond–you and your daughter–organize some neighbors and let the game begin!

Pentamom’s comment in response to Julie’s quote “As adults it is our responsibility to nurture and assist kids and families not scoff at and belittle them.” got me thinking.

Reading through the comments, folks are just calling it like they see it (or for the politically incorrect, calling a spade a spade…which if you research the origins has everything to do with bad translations and nothing to do with race).

So Julie thinks that those of us who see this as someone expecting special treatment are all out of line but that it is ok for WENDY to VERY PUBLICALLY *SCOFF* at the leagues rules/needs/etc. and BELITTLE the organizer she spoke with. Interesting…

Sounds like she was late and is blaming it on others. As someone who is often late, I think she needs to just sick it up and be on time next time. There are rules and deadlines for a reason.

Based on the headline of this post, I clicked through expecting to see some horrible thing that the lady had done to the writer’s eight-year-old daughter.

She told the mother that there was a deadline.

The only one who shut that little girl out of lacrosse was her own mother.

(My kid have never played team sports — is there a high demand for coaches who have never played the game?)

@Michelle – There can be demand for coaches with no experience with the sport…usually, though, we are talking for pretty young kids. Sometimes communities will offer clinics to give those folks the basics.

Personally, I had never played soccer. It wasn’t that big of a sport when I was young, either. I started coaching soccer when my oldest daughter started in the 3-4yo group. Proper soccer skills not required for kids that age, really. The focus is on having fun, learning to go the right way, learning to move your body while moving a ball around, what it means to be part of a team, some of the basic rules like boundary lines and no hands, and listening to the coach.

It didn’t take much reading on my part to learn about the right parts of the foot to use to dribble and kick a ball. We just played a lot of fun games to get the kids there. As my kids got older, I studied more and figured out more and was able to develop a good enough skill level myself to coach through 10yo. Although I was one of the most requested coaches in the league, I refused to coach beyond that age – I just didn’t have the technical skill to teach the kids after that.

I would think, though, that lacrosse wouldn’t fit well into this kind of a situation because of the specialized skills and starting with older kids. With soccer…well, everyone has kicked a ball around at some time in their life…

As a teacher, I sympathize with the “gate-keeper” here. There is a BIG difference between a child being “shut out” because they aren’t great at a sport or don’t have a huge amount of experience with it and a child not being able to sign up because they missed the deadline. If you start making exceptions to deadlines, especially when the reason given is just that the person didn’t get around to it (not that they had some sort of actual, documented emergency that made meeting it impossible), then you may as well have no deadlines.

I have, in the past, learned about cool things it would have been fun for my kids to participate in after the deadline. In a couple of cases, if it was just a few days later, I did e-mail to inquire if it was possible to still register, but that was with the expectation that they would likely NOT have a space for me, and if they did it was because they had insufficient enrollment up to that point. If the deadline had passed by more than a week or so, I filed it away in my memory for something to sign up for the next year. I would certainly not expect, if an activity had already filled up, that we’d be allowed in after the deadline, and I absolutely would not blame the person who had the unfortunate job of enforcing the rules for the results of my negligence.

This may be an opportunity for the mom to organize an informal weekly lacrosse game that her daughter can play in with neighborhood friends, or something along those lines. It’s also an opportunity to teach your daughter to handle disappointment well: What else can she do this spring–maybe another group activity, maybe an individual project–since lacrosse is no longer an option? But the “gate-keeper” here is not the villain. Whether you think the deadline is reasonable or not, it’s the deadline: I doubt you’d think to miss a deadline at work and then just tell your boss, “Well, I thought the deadline was too early.” And if this woman makes an exception for one child to register after the deadline, then suddenly she has no reason to disallow any late sign-ups, and that’s going to lead to a lot of chaos and confusion for the volunteers trying to organize this.

Wendy, here’s your “to do” for this week. Talk to your kids about what activities/sports they might possibly want to participate in for the next 12 months. Research those sign up dates and put them on your calendar — AND put a reminder in your smart phone for the first date of sign up. With today’s technology, you should never need to worry about being late again.

I suspect (as someone else has pointed out) that your letter that calls out the league and your child by their last name, will not help you in regard to signing up with them. Your tone implies that whomever the “gatekeeper” is does not care about your child nor making “the world a better place”. Please remember this person has chosen to be involved youth sports organization. Clearly they are interested in having kids play sports.

I’m sure if you sole concern is your daughter participating in a sport, you have dozens more to choose from this spring.

@JulieH! What a great idea for something that might otherwise drop off your radar that far in advance.

I’m actually more of a paper calendar person for immediate things, but for the thing I absolutely don’t want to forget, I put in the phone/google calendar as well. The electronic calendars are actually made to the “not super organized Moms”.

🙂

“Warren and Lollipoplover you are off the mark. I’m a team Mom for the soccer leagues that play on the field across the street from my house and am here to tell you there is ALWAYS room for more.”

Even if there is room for more, why exactly should the league allow it absent a good reason for the lateness? If you are going to allow people to sign-up whenever they want, why have a deadline at all? Just let everyone come whenever it is convenient for them. Who cares if it is inconvenient for the organization.

I didn’t read every single comment. But I have little sympathy for this mother. My husband and I run the soccer program for our kids’ school. I was approached by a mom late, wanting to sign her child up and I said yes, but then she told all her friends and they wanted to do the same. I finally started saying no, the team is full, but at that point there were 20 kids on a soccer team that plays 8v8. It was an absolute challenge for the coaches to rotate that many kids in and out of games. Next season, there will be at capacity numbers that I will not budge on. It’s not fair to our volunteer coaches, to the kids who signed up on time or to myself and my husband, who put in hundreds of hours organizing and being involved.

Leagues have deadlines for a reason. Our season doesn’t start until September, but we have to commit to the league in July and file team registration in August. We need time to scout places to practice (as a city school we don’t have athletic fields) and time to raise the money to pay for park permits, referee fees,etc. Uniforms need to be ordered by a certain date. I was absolutely amazed by the number of parents who came to me after the season had started, asking if their kid could play. Despite plenty of communication from the school, starting in April, about the program.

The letter writer seems to have no idea the amount of effort it takes to run a successful sports program. For every late registrant the “gatekeeper” lets in, there’s five more behind her. Be an adult and sign up on time next year.

lollipop,

In many of our leagues we will on the registration have a box to check if you want siblings on the same team, mostly for travel and scheduling ease. Other than that the teams are a semi random filling.

What we do is rank all the players from the previous years 1 through 5. 5 being the highest skill set. Then after the registration DEADLINE, we get together and pick/make the teams up. What we try to do is place the same number of 5’s, 4’s and so on, on every team. Each team getting a total at the end that is pretty much the same as every other team. Then we place the new players. This is to try and make each team as equal as possible, so that one team doesn’t just run away with it all.

@Donna “Even if there is room for more, why exactly should the league allow it absent a good reason for the lateness?”

In my experience (e.g. how it works locally), a sport would always take you in even after deadline if there is a place. First, most of cost is fixed which means if they fill empty spot, they have more money and same expenses. They are not rich, so it matters. They do not care about your lateness and organizational skills nearly as much. Second, they tend to be nice people and are willing to do a bit extra when you are nice to them first. They are organizing the sport because they are enthusiastic about it and earn very little money on that.

Deadline is when they want most people to sign in and will arrange rooms/coaches/cancel league/etc based on how many people sign up at that time. If you don’t sign up at deadline, you risk not getting in due to lack of spots.

@Julie You would contact advertiser and essentially blackmail the youth sport just because your kid got into waiting list after being sign up late? That is seriously just … wow.

And the bits about calling police chief and pastor are ridiculous too. A cop would come to make sure a league take in a kid and the kid jumps the waiting list? I get that connections and networking can open doors and get you exceptions nobody else has, but engaging in all that because of one season of youth sport is like very definition of overly protective helicopter parenting.

Maybe suggest a “free-agent list.” If a girl gets injured, can’t make a particular game or games, etc., the coach replaces her for the given games with the girl at the top of the free-agent list. Your daughter might get a few weeks’ play, or if she’s top of the list, I’d guess she’d eventually stick on a roster.

Free range kids shouldn’t be the forum for this crybaby mom.To paraphrase Woody Allen said, 80% of success is showing up (on time).

@Donna
“I know that leagues will sometimes add kids later if they have space. However, there is no reason that they MUST do so. They could simply choose not to do it to avoid this exact behavior.”

Someone else mentioned late fees. Not a bad idea for this sort of situation. Fill the space, discourage the lateness.

This reminds me of the saying “poor planning on your part doesn’t constitute an emergency on my part.” Mom (perhaps from everyone-gets-a-trophy generation and whose parents “fixed” everything for her?) wants to blame the horrible lacrosse lady because she didn’t sign her daughter up in time. Boo hoo.

Having coached in the past, as well as serving as a board member, planning youth sports is a pain because multiple groups are all wanting access to a limited number of playing fields. If there are only x number of fields that can accommodate x number of practices and games that affects the number of kids who can play. Additionally, uniforms and equipment have to be ordered months in advance, coaches and officials procured (always in short supply) and so on.

In the meantime, she can enroll her daughter in summer lacrosse camps and clinics so she will obtain the basic skills to play next season. And be on time for sign-ups.

@Donna Letters like this are not because lateness. They are because entitlement and idea that it is ok to use social pressure and public shaming to get what you want. Overwhelming majority of late people, including chronically late, don’t write letters like this.

Meanwhile, this mom is likely to use the same tactic when she does not get her way no matter what the reason for rejection. If her daughter would not be rejected, mom would be pressuring the coach over something else (equipment, order of playing, how much they sit on bench, training being too hard or not hard enough, whatever).

You can reject all late application and when she gets into the team next year, moms personality and tactic would still be exactly as it is now.

@andy and Donna- The late fees (and early registration discounts) are mainly used to get players enrolled and organized by a set date. It is a PIA to keep reworking these teams as players aren’t registered by deadlines. It truly inconveniences so many volunteers, that is why the penalize it, but they WANT players to try their league so they allow it to happen. Sometimes kids change their minds too and find out a bunch of their friends joined the league and now they want to try play, so you pay the late fee and get added to a team.

It’s kind of like RSVPing to a party- so many folks don’t do it or let you know when their on their way over. I’ve hosted many parties and I truly can’t stand those who just show up without letting you know, putting a strain on all the guests who had the courtesy to give advanced notice so you could have enough food and wine for everyone. And then you have the family of eaters show up and demolish your buffet and drink all of your wine and beer, sending you on liquor runs for your other guests.

@Warren- We do the player evaluations too (5,4,3, 2) and try to keep teams even so there are no *stacked* teams. Honestly, most of the girls I’ve coached are 3’s. The 5’s and 4’s are usually plucked away early for travel teams and you have a bunch of mediocre yet enthusiastic learners who joined to have a good youth sport experience. My view of organized sports is that this is THEIR playtime. Playing sports teaches so many great skills but one of the biggest benefits is being part of a team. I let the kids run the stretching exercises, pick games/drills they enjoy, and name secret plays with funny names to confuse their opponents. These will be the things they remember- not the scores of the game. Most of the younger leagues don’t even keep score (though the girls totally do).

We also honor almost all friend requests (at least I do). Some are for carpool reasons, others are just friends who want to play together. So I let them pick teams vs. putting them on random teams, separated from their best friends. Maybe this is a girl thing, but most of my girls would rather play sports with their friends than win the game. It’s more of a social experience than a hard-core athletic one (for most of the rec league teams I’ve coached) and I respect that and allow them to make the sport something they enjoy doing with people they want to be with.

Aside from Westwood being a snooty town, I don’t see the issue – seriously, the Youth Sports Director needs to get over herself

This mom is offering to Volunteer – now, unless they have absurd Adult:Youth ratios in Westwood Youth Sports, it seems to me this mom’s participation would allow a few additional wait list kids in addition to her daughter to participate

Really, this is absurd – feel badly for what this mom & daughter are going through – you seem to have lost the battle but hopefully you will win the war in the end – escalate the issue to the Town Board of Selectmen – even if they don’t decide in your favor, it will be a matter of record what you experienced which may help others in future

Take Care

@Joanne
Wendy offered to volunteer as a coach TO US in the “open letter.” She didn’t say if she actually offered that to the gatekeeper. She also ASSUMED that the reason for the capacity issue is a shortage of coaches – she doesn’t say that she actually took the time to find out what the needs/reasons were. And as other commenters have noted, there are many other things that could be forcing their hands – field space, equipment availability, safety, etc.

Nice thought, Andy. But I would have to say that doesn’t help. For the various events I plan, I always clearly put that RSVP means to let me know either way, yes or no…doesn’t help a bit.

Totally feel for this mom, as it’s so hard to stay on top of deadlines, which are often exasperatingly early, for different activities. Still, it is on her, and one season of not playing Lacrosse will not kill her daughter. For starters, she could post an ad seeing if there are other girls who were shut out and start an informal group to develop skills, which seems reasonable for 8yo’s.

” I also wonder if the 80s and 90s movies featuring a coach as a perv has colored people’s subconscious. ”

I’m sure it didn’t help, but the problem is false logic.

Most cases of child sexual abuse involve people who had trusted access to children. Parents, step-parents, other family members, clergy, teachers, coaches, neighbors.

But the logic doesn’t work the other way… most people who have trusted access to children are not child sex abusers. But if you’re the suspicious sort…”why are you seeking trusted access to my kids” is an easy question to ask. That kind of thinking helps close to nobody, but… it’s far too common.

That said, I don’t think that’s the real reason why adult coaches tend to be hard to find. I think it’s the time commitment. You have to be really dedicated to commit the kind of time proper coaching for a full sports season requires (much less the general trend to year-round schedules for people who are serious about sports (and some other things that are not sports, but have a similar dynamic.)

@David-
My personal experience with lack of coaches is with girls sports. Actually, there are quite a few single, childless guys who have coached my son over the years, mostly in sports like wrestling and soccer. One was a 23 year-old soccer star from Liberia who worked as a skills trainer for my son’s team (and many others) to send money back to his family. One of the most amazing players and inspiring stories (fleeing a war-torn country to teach soccer in the US). He also had recent college grad coaches who loved the sport of wrestling and coached him over the years. His current coach is a crotchety old man who yells at them like Rocky Balboa’s trainer Mickey. It’s fun to watch different generations coach him and teach him different things. With baseball, it’s usually one of the player’s dads.
There’s nothing wrong with going to a local little league or whatever sport you love and telling them why you love the sport and if they need any help.

Again, my apologies for hijacking the thread. Thanks for listening to my nonsense.

David

Joanne,

Go for it. Bring it before the board, what we call council here. The moment you say you missed the deadline, they will politely ask you to step aside. Council is there to address town problems, not your personal problems with time management.

And people like you and Wendy volunteering after the fact means absolutely nothing. You are not reliable enough to meet a deadline for enrollment, how the hell can they depend on you to meet your volunteer obligations.
You want to volunteer? Great. What Wendy did was not volunteering, it was bargaining and bribery.

Ummm maybe the team is full?!?! Teams close out after a certain number of players. All of her ranting and whining just teaches her kid that you don’t have to be accountable for your actions. Register on time and you play…if you don’t you get wait listed. Next year make sure you register on time! Life lesson!

“But I think it is a problem when it’s the vast majority of children’s activities and when there aren’t enough good quality children’s activities.”

Ha! I think there are TOO MANY quality children’s activities to choose from, and my family has the problem of saying no to some requests as we don’t have the time or the money to do everything.

My kids can play soccer all year long at the intramural level, travel, or for an elite club with prices from $80(intramural) per season to club at $4000 a year (plus tournament costs!). Any sport has all of these levels for children, depending on your budget and available time. There are yoga classes, gymnastics classes, dance classes, lego clubs, STEM clubs, girl scouts, boys scouts, pottery classes, music lessons, theater productions, CYO leagues, bands, orchestras, and after school camps at the Y, library, and most schools. My kids can play hockey, indoor soccer, basketball, or running club right after school for a price. They also have a homework club (with great HS students who actually understand common core math) and arts camp offered after school.

I don’t know where you live, but we are overflowing with kid-centric activities. There’s more for kids to do than adults. Where are all of the intramural adult leagues (sponsored by local taverns)??! They have spas for kids, gyms for kids (Little Gym, Gymboree), children’s museums, and indoor children’s playground.

We try to balance our children’s interests with the impact it has on our family to be driving them to and from too many scheduled activities and sports. There are so many! I think extra-curricular activities and hobbies should enhance your life and bring you enjoyment, not frazzle the family and make our lives so hectic that we are eating take-out each night in the car as we drive to and from their activities. That’s no fun.

@Lollipoplover There are quite a lot of children’s activities around here too, but almost none that are don’t require a 6+ month commitment (normally with upfront fees), unless you can afford to pay for private coaching. And many common activities (including girls scouts, but in particular local government sports and music programs) have long wait lists.

I think part of the reason for the increased demand for commitment are the increased requirements placed on providers to maintain particular records and practices. While some of those requirements may be a good thing, I think there can be a failure to understand the social costs (like inaccessibility) of increased regulation. And part of the reason is the general shift of society to support the “Tiger-mom” approach to child-rearing. Which, to me, does not fit in with a free range mind-set.

“Ha! I think there are TOO MANY quality children’s activities to choose from, and my family has the problem of saying no to some requests as we don’t have the time or the money to do everything.”

Yeppers!!! Unfortunately for people like Wendy, these organizations don’t come around door to door and hold your hand to sign up. You actually have to spend a little time researching what is available and when.

Now for those complaining about long lead in times for registration and payment, well sucks to be you. You may only sign up for one sport, but the people running parks and rec. are planning and scheduling year round for everything the municipality offers. Hell the registration for swimming lessons alone is a parks and rec. nightmare, and that happens at least three times a year. Our Director of Parks and Rec was a regular swimmer and a great guy. I used to joke with him in the week leading up to registration if he was ready. Because he was always swamped with parents complaining that they couldn’t get their snowflake with the instructor they want, in the pool they want on the day they want and in the time slot they want. I honestly believe it was from him that I learned the saying, “Sucks to be them.”.

Sorry, off topic-ish…

Has anyone here played co-ed lacrosse that can help me understand the differences between that and girls’s or boy’s? I have tried looking online but don’t find a clear answer.

My daughter is starting high school in the fall and is excited about their co-ed lacrosse team that has never had a girl sign up for it. 😉 I know, I don’t get it either…how is it co-ed if it has always been boys… That’s just how it has been explained to us so far.

“Has anyone here played co-ed lacrosse that can help me understand the differences between that and girls’s or boy’s? I have tried looking online but don’t find a clear answer.”

If it’s for a public school or a public parks league, you’re probably looking at a domino effect of Title IX.

They have a commitment to equal opportunities for girls to play as boys. This can be solved in one of two ways… a girls’ league and boys’ league, or one league that is open to both. If there are enough participants, you can build two leagues, each with independent teams, coaches, tournaments, etc. If you don’t have enough participants, you can’t build enough teams to have a meaningful league schedule. (If you only have two teams, you can jump right to the league championship game…)

Now, a single league can operate to limit girls’ participation. None of them wants to be the only girl on the team, and a team of girls is at a disadvantage in a league full of boys’ teams (This is not sexist, but I’m going to leave out the reasons why, for now.). Sometimes this disincentive to girls’ participation is an unfortunate side effect, and sometimes it is by design. “Hey”, they say, “we opened up signups to girls. It’s not our fault that none of them signed up! Now give us all the fields and practice areas.”

I would not assume that girls’ lacrosse is any less violent than is boys’ lacrosse. This is partly because lacrosse got its origins as a substitute for war, and mostly because I’ve watched women play competitive field hockey.

Thanks Warren and James 🙂 That is all helpful, insightful info. Lacrosse is very new to our region – I don’t see much going in in girls’/women’s lacrosse, and on the male side it seems to just in recent years be hitting a critical mass where there is enough high school participation to allow multiple schools to have their own teams plus a “catch-all” team for those still aren’t there.

The athletic director and team members (yes, teenage boys!) that we got to speak with at an open house seemed genuinely excited that she was interested. It is a small (600 student) Catholic high school. I am hopeful that it will turn out to be a situation where it is a good experience for her and the guys too (taking on a brotherly, protective role since she doesn’t have brothers of her own).

Luckily, my daughter has a high level of self-confidence. To her its not a big deal to be the only girl in a team of boys. She has been in similar situations because of her intense interest in engineering (specifically electrical). She always seems to fit in and win the guys over with her quick wit and non-flirtatious manner. And the young men from this school she has gotten to know through our church and other events seem to be good kids.

JulieH,

I hope your daughter has fun playing lacrosse. These days being the only female on a team isn’t as big as it used to be. As with most issues the the younger generations seem to just be past all the bias and crap that the generations before it had. About the only thing gender based she may come up against is the rest of the team looking at her like their little sister, so to speak, and being a little protective of her.

Well, it seems James hit it right on the nose per my discussion with school staff at registration night. In order to be in compliance with the state athletic rules, females must be allowed to join since there is not an equivalent girl program in the school. AND the school administration makes every effort to encourage girls to sign up with a “club” girls’ lacrosse program rather than participate in the school’s athletic program team.

This explains why I was getting some mixed messages depending on who I talked to. The admissions gal who had come to the school had said that girls do not play for the school but play on this other “club” team – discouraging participation – rather than stating that there were just “lesser” options available if she didn’t want to play with all boys. The athletic director had told me she was welcome on the school team if she was up for playing with the boys – which he is required to do to maintain program eligibility since the local girls’ “club” team is not considered an equivalent program by our state’s athletic association rules.

Daughter says if she is going to play as a high school athlete, she wants to play as a high school athlete – not some “parks and rec” program. Even if that means a lot of bench time for her, especially as she is getting started in the sport.

Because on a high school team, there is daily practice during the week with excellent coaches – she may not get to play much in games to start, but she is going to get a lot of time at practice to build skills.

In a park and rec league – at least the ones around here – practice 1x/week, *maybe* 2x/week, with unknown quality of coach…could be great, could be someone who has barely played themselves. So she may get “fair time” playing during games but with what skills?

I thought her logic was pretty sound.