Beware the Vultures

You: “Officer, Am I being detained?”
Cop: “No”
You: Walk away

That is why I am so freaked out over leaving my child in the car…I end up dragging my 12 week old in her carseat back and forth out of the drop in day care just so I don’t get the cops called on me. Tomorrow, instead of just leaving the kids in the car in front of the mail place while I drop off a package for my deployed husband, I am going to have to drag two kids under 2 in the mail express for 2 minutes of signing the customs form & payment. Amazing how my siblings and I lived when my mom would leave us in the car to run into the post office or to get a gallon of milk!

This is very disheartening. If there is so much danger, why aren’t those officers out patrolling the streets? This is the kind of thing that pits community members against each other. people shouldn’t be alerting the police about a kid left in a car for a few minutes, they should watch the car if they’re that concerned. I’ve only known the calling of police regarding a kid in a car to be justified once. The kid had been in that car for hours.

When my oldest was an infant, I put her in the car after getting groceries, shut the door, and returned my shopping cart to the corral 2 cars over from mine. Some high-strung woman spotted her in the approximately 20 seconds I was away from–but never out of sight of–my car, spotted me and told me she was “so relieved!!!” when I returned. I think if I had taken 5 more seconds she’d have called the cops.

I leave my kids in the car at the post office, pharmacy, bank, and gas station. All places where I have a constant view of the car. I too go into Family Dollar (once in a while) for a 50 cent birthday card and leave them in the car. My two children are in 5 pt car seats, in a locked car. While I run into the bank, gas station, etc. I know they are safe, otherwise I wouldn’t do it. My husband on the other hand would rather spend 10 minutes inside the post office ensuing time-outs instead of the 2 minutes and looking out the front window at his locked car.

Oy. They may mean call if you see a baby unattended in a hot car in the middle of summer but people read it to mean call the second a parent walks away leaving any aged child in a car at any time. Stupid.

On a related note: I was just on a parenting site and they were discussing when a child can run into the store to pick up things while mom waits in the car with the older kids. Apparently the consensus is not until they are at LEAST 12, but preferably 14-16 because you just never know and kids go missing every second from every store. In another topic they were discussing playing outside alone and anyone who thought it was okay before the age of 12-14 were implied to be neglectful and uncaring for the safety of their children. And the other day I got into it with a nutcase on a topic about babyproofing. Me and 1 other mom said we don’t babyproof. The other mom got voted down for her answer several times and this mom accused her of not caring for her children and then when I agreed with her I was told my kids were going to die…I’d see one day the error of my ways, lol. Yet I have 5 kids (the oldest being 10) and so far they’ve all survived (the other mom only had 1 who was 3 so I thought I’d chime in since she was being berated because it’s easy to watch just 1 kid…I had 3 kids under 3 and still didn’t babyproof). She really got on my case when I said I didn’t know where my 8mo was. He had wandered off to see what his older siblings were doing and I said I assumed they were watching him. She told me I was stupid for assuming older kids would just watch their baby brother and that I’d be sorry. All I could do was laugh. Hell, they babysit every Saturday so I can sleep in…make him bottles, change his diaper, play with him and make sure he stays out of trouble. They LOVE it.

Thanks for the link to that SafeKids bulletin; it pointed me to a document containing state-by-state laws about leaving kids unattended in cars. I knew that PA had such a law, but I didn’t know what it entailed. Now I do: It only applies to kids under 6 “when the motor vehicle is out of the person’s sight and under circumstances which endanger the health, safety or welfare of the child.” Of course the “circumstances” are up for debate, but as my child is now 6, I’m (hopefully) off the hook now.

When he was 5 there was a day I had to go to the bank, it was raining cats and dogs, and the closest parking space I could find was around the block. He very sensibly asked to remain in the car. I locked the doors, gave him the speech about not unlocking them for anyone except me (not that he could from his car seat in the back), and RAN all the way to the bank and back. I was petrified the whole time — not because I thought anything would happen to him (I knew he was fine) — but because I was afraid someone would spot him through the downpour and call the police. Luckily no one did, and he was exactly as I’d left him, listening happily to his iPod in his carseat, when I returned.

It is frustrating, that I must drag ALL three kids into a gas station to pay the cashier a few dollars. I had one nice man, who saw me struggle to carry all THREE sleeping children into the gas station to pay, quietly bewail the state of the world with me. The man was so kind. He said “you know, ten years ago, or twenty, I’dve left mine, but now a days, they are all paranoid something bad is gonna happen. More power to you honey, I am so glad I didn’t have all these people meddling with my parenting when I was a Dad with young kids…”
It was so refreshing to hear somebody else thinking like I was, that it is crazier to carry all three children into the Turkey Hill for 30 seconds, while they are sleeping to hand the cashier a bill, than it is to let them sleep in a locked car, strapped into their seats.

This kind of thing is why I was glad my youngest had pneumonia during a school break rather than the middle of a school week. I didn’t have to worry about if I could leave her in the warm car a few minutes to pick up her brother from kindergarten or if I should take a very sick little girl out into the cold, rainy weather we’d been having. Easy enough to bundle her up, but easier yet to not worry about it all.

And I leave my kids in the car to drop the shopping cart off in the corral. They’re fine, and I figure much safer than traipsing after me as I get rid of the cart.

Yeah, those two circumstances are TOTALLY different. We all, of course, hate car/kid tragedies like the former and am fine with any effort to avoid those tragic circumstances.

That said, the thing about never leaving your kid in the car consciously while you run in to drop off something (like your other children) drives me NUTS! I did this often when my twins were infants and still do with them as toddlers. There are just some circumstances where it is WAY better for all of us to have them stay put — and as a parent I know when that is, and take precautions to make sure everyone stays safe and happy.

Of course there are circumstances where it’s not a good idea, and I would hope any laws set in place would be for those kinds of situations. NOT super-short daycare/preschool drop-offs. Geesh!

Safe kids is a pretty good organization- they give out free car seats, promote car safety and drowning prevention, give out helmets, etc, etc. Their campaigns become annoying when they decide to extend them too broadly. There are situations where you should call 911 and try to remove a child from a vehicle- hyperthermia is dangerous and does kill a surprising number of kids each year. But for goodness sake, you don’t need to say all kids in all situations!

Safe kids would be much better off telling parents to roll down their windows ALL the way while they take in the groceries during the warm months of the year. The hot car issue primarily has to do with your car turning into a solar oven. That shouldn’t happen with all of the windows open.

I remember when I started kindergarten. My mom took me outside her fabric store and pointed down the street. She said “Walk that way, you will see the school a couple blocks down.” Wow, talk about free range. This was back in the 70’s when people kept the eye signs in the windows. It was a symbol of someone who participated in Child watch. I did get a little scared, two blocks away. I was 5 ,the world looks bigger then. I had a sweet old lady come to my rescue. It probably made her day.

As far as the car goes I have found that at times I can’t trust my kids alone in the car as they have spilled drinks all over and played with the gears. It’s more about protecting my car. When they were babes I left them to sleep in the car. I always knew when they woke up. Mothers intuition still works in this day and age.

@SKL: Well, who else is going to make more drones while the government gets their cloning programs down pat?

Seriously, we’re heading toward a scary society… where you’re rewarded for being an obnoxious, tattling nutjob. I recall in school that tattling was looking down upon… seems that it’s quickly becoming fashionable. “IF YOU SEE SOMETHING, SAY SOMETHING!” *sigh* I want to move to my own island now.

I am so glad to see this topic today. There are many, many times when children are actually better off left in the car. It is so wrong for people to report people just because a child is sitting in a car! Absurd, actually.

When I see a child in a car, my new habit is to stay nearby to watch for busybodies. I’ve warded off a couple of them already!

In 2010, 49 kids (less than 1 per state) died by being left in the car. Wonder why they didn’t include stats of how many kids were killed in parking lots when they WEREN’T left in the car! Betcha the number would be a LOT higher, if such numbers were kept track of!

…and another thought… I still remember the day when my mom first sent me to a grocery store alone – I was 5, same age as my daughter now, and my mom gave me some money, walked with me to the stoplight and sent me forth… All I had to do was cross the street, walk into the store, buy a loaf of bread she asked for, and walk back to her, still waiting by the stoplight. Up to this day I remember how I felt that day – an indescribable feeling of being in charge for the first time in my life and knowing I’m capable to be on my own! I think this “never-ever-leave-your-kid-alone” thing now is robbing our kids of some rich experiences!

I still remember just 30 years ago, going to the store next door with the money my mother had given me and buying for her, of all things, a bottle of wine. I was 8, she had dinner on the stove and had forgotten the wine to be cooked in whatever she was making. I remember a few years later, at 9 or 11 going to the store and buying cigarettes for the disabled neighbor lady that lived in the apartment above us. At 10 I used to even cross a 4 lane highway, on my own, to go to the movies on the other side. And back when I was 4, I was riding my bike to the end of the block unsupervised on the street in front of our house, while Dad sat on the back porch, out of sight, with headphones on and talking on his old HAM radio, by 5 I was allowed to ride around the block on my own. Oh and no helmets either.

PS I have heard lots of this about seven-year-olds being taught about sexual positions and masturbation. I’ve seen it on facebook from friends conservative, liberal, wacky and sane. What the heck is this about? Is this some urban myth or what? Where does it come from? I just do not know ANYONE who could think that except in the case of the highest-risk children, discussion of sex in that level of detail was appropriate. Not to mention POSITIONS, which are never really necessary to discuss as a preventative health measure, which I thought public sex education was about.

This is bullying. Just like the bully of schoolyard legend, these people are counting on our slinking away with our tail between our legs, feeling lucky to have gotten off with just losing our milk money, or, in this case, a tongue lashing.

They say the bully is able to function and thrive in an atmosphere of shame and silence. It helps their cause if they leave you with the impression that you’re on your own, and they are the majority. I believe a lot of parents are suffering under all the “safety” pressure and would stand with us if they knew that option was there. Let’s actually take the helpful advice of the safety experts that Lenore’s post links to, and – Get the word out!

No more shame, no more silence! (With apologies to Churchill,) We shall fight them in the schools, we shall fight them in the parking-lots, we shall fight them in cyberspace! (well done @ Jen Connelly) We shall never surrender!

Time to shame the shamers. I would suggest the letter writer ask the teachers at the school about the incident and express his/her dissatisfaction with the handling of the situ, if s/he hasn’t already done so. And then an open letter should be written and tacked up explaining the whole situation (with grievance). The perpetrator(s) may never come forward, but maybe they’ll feel the weight of their folly, when they realize the anguish they’ve caused, and, failing that, they’ll at least realize that, should they again feel the desire to “teach someone a lesson”, their actions will be made public.

We need to speak up for ourselves and for each other and fight the bullies.

Ask not for whom Child Protection Services rings (the doorbell), they ring for thee.

(w/apologies to Donne.)

I once accidentally locked my 2 year old in a car, parked in the sun, in the middle of a summer’s day in Australia. I did worry about how long I had to get him out… minutes? tens of minutes? … he ended up being in there for about 20 minutes because the police (who I called) couldn’t break in so they waited for the roadside assistance people who took longer to arrive… who still couldn’t break in…. at this point my son, while still very calm, was clearly getting very hot (he was red in the face and sweating profusely) so the ambulance officers (who’d also arrived) said it was time for him to definitely be out, so they broke the car window… which again was not that quick in terms of how quick you’d need to be to actually successfully abduct a child locked in a car in a public place.

My point is, apart from hypothermia, I think it’d be quite clear whether a child was actually in distress inside the car, and it’s not that quick and easy to break in. So any fears of child abduction are ridiculous, and any bystanders would most likely know when it was really getting dangerous for the kid to remain in the car. I agree there are tragedies and we should be aware of the real dangers of leaving kids in car… but we’re aware of the (far more common) dangers of driving cars and still allowed to do that!

My favourite comment above is the one where someone left a note saying how dangerous it is to leave kids in a car… but didn’t hang around. If you are concerned, shouldn’t you wait for the driver to come back? Doesn’t leaving kids in what you think is a dangerous situation make you some kind of accessory, should “the worst happen”???

So we live in a police state, bolstered by idiots. This makes me glad I live in a very free range area and have very darkly tinted windows. I’ve left one or the other of mine in the fan before but I always tell her to stay in the back where no one can see her.

I guess that’s the negative side of “it takes a village”. The unwelcome, unsolicited input into how you raise your child.
http://quasiagitato.wordpress.com

I guess children become less desirable to “snatch” once they are over 6 years old. You know, they can talk and scream things like, “That is NOT my mommy!”

Per usual, I am saddened to hear about things like this.

Who knew I was “fighting the power,” when I chose to let my son stay in the car reading his awesome book, rather than drag him through the snow into Target while I returned a pair of socks? Sometimes parents really do know what we are doing.

What the heck happened to freedom of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Did that die on 9/11/01, too?

Whatever someone thinks about leaving a child “alone” in a car, they should at least realize that a busy drop-off period is one of the safer places to do it! With the doors locked and alarm on, what could an evildoer do that wouldn’t attract the attention of 30 parents and 10 911 calls, while the child is still safe and laughing inside the locked vehicle?

This is not the only country with busybodies run amok. Friends in Switzerland told me the story of the police who threatened their next-door neighbor because another neighbor thought they weren’t providing their pet rabbits enough fresh grass….

But we’re mixing two issues here. Abduction is not the problem; heat is. If you live in Florida, as I do, or another Southern state, you know how quickly the inside of a car can become lethally hot. It’s a concern for pets as well as children. And we can’t seem to get through a summer without hearing about a child who dies, forgotten, in a daycare or preschool bus. Imprisoned in their car seats, they have no chance. Not that encouraging passersby to call 911 would help in that situation, since there are not many folks passing by preschool parking lots.

These laws are left vague for reasons. First, there are some really bad parents out there with no common sense whatsoever. Second, every situation is different. You can’t really have a law that says “children under x are not allowed to be left in cars” because that implicitly gives you permission to leave children over x in the car. Not all kids over x should be left in the car and it’s not always safe to leave children over x in a car due to weather, neighborhood, etc. Some parents don’t know the difference. Third, the dumb choices parents make with their kids would boggle your mind so you need a blanket law to cover all those things that you will never think of. We actually had a person who regularly played a game where her 9 year old stepson jumped into her moving car through the window (Dukes of Hazzard style). As would happen, Jr. eventually missed the window and was seriously injured. Since no parent with half a brain would think this was a good idea, it would probably never be written into law as a possibility, therefore, you need a general child cruelty law.

All states have some sort of general child cruelty law. Even if your state has a law saying “kids under 6 are not to be left in a car when the motor vehicle is out of the person’s sight and under circumstances which endanger the health, safety or welfare of the child.” You are NOT off the hook if you have a child over 6. If, perchance, your child is injured, car jacked, kidnapped, etc. you WILL be charged under the general child cruelty statute.

That seems to be the standard of the law these days. If nothing happens, the parent is lectured. If something happens, no matter how unlikely and random the event was, the parent will be charged with a crime and there are enough vague laws to cover any event that could possibly happen.

I’ll bet if you asked these nosey parkers why they don’t just wait by the car and make sure the child is all right themselves, they’ll answer that they “can’t take the responsibility for other people’s children.”

Brilliant. But they can take the responsibility for having someone arrested and possibly putting their children’s custody in jeopardy, over a trivial non-incident. Nice definition of what it means to “take responsibility” or not to.

In my opinion, there are so many other “free range” issues to focus on that are much more important that this one. Leaving our kids alone in the car doesn’t help foster their independance, build communities or teach them a valuable lesson — especially when they’re locked in car seats. It’s just a convenience for us, as parents. I am trying to raise my kids with free-range values, but it’s for their sakes, not to make my life easier. Getting in a huff about being allowed to leave our kids alone in the car seems like a waste of time, in my opinion, and does nothing to push the free-range movement mainstream.

http://www.floridachildinjurylawblog.com/florida-law-on-leaving-children-unattended-in-a-car/

We have a law against leaving the children in the car unattended.

I think it’s odd. 15 minutes max time and no time at all with the motor running so the AC could cool the children in the Florida heat. I’ve only left them in the car alone in front of my house when running back in for something so it hasn’t been a big deal to me most of the time, but Little Boy has been asking to stay in the car on occasion — I haven’t had any quick errands where I’ve been willing to allow it, but someday I will and it will be fear of imprisonment that stops me rather than lack of trust for the boy. Though that reasoning won’t help him on a deeper instinctual level when it is time for him to do things on his own.

Just had this thought too… you know those signs on fire alarms that say “false alarms risk lives” or somesuch? The idea is, if the fire company is busy with your false alarm some poor soul actually IN a fire is dying. What on earth could justify calling 911 if there is no immediate danger? I wonder how much leeway 911 dispatchers have to determine if a call is a legitimate danger or just some dumb@ss.

“Leaving our kids alone in the car doesn’t help foster their independance, build communities or teach them a valuable lesson — especially when they’re locked in car seats. ”

You’re right as far as that goes, but there’s a deeper issue. Conceding this issue to the culture of fear just feeds to the idea that life is unsafe and children must be “protected” all the time from imaginary “dangers.” This is the kind of thing we have to push back against if we ever hope to convince people that we’re not abusive parents for letting our kids walk a couple of blocks unattended. If we smile quietly and nod while people tell us (and government officials enforce) that we’re “endangering” our children by leaving then locked in alone for a couple of minutes in a safe environment, it just makes it that much harder to justify giving our kids actual freedom, and to keep them from trying to impose restrictions upon us in doing so.

The ‘tattle tail” comments remind me of when I was in 1st grade. I tattled on someone – don’t remember what for. Then I had to wear a donkey tail pinned to my rear all the rest of the day (including to lunch in the cafeteria where my older brothers also ate). I was so humiliated.

That cured me of tattling. But I was never sure how to process the conflicting advice that if someone bothers you, tell someone rather than retaliating.

Mostly I just allowed myself to be bullied, avoiding both of the above problems. But, I lived through it.

Anyhoo, I agree with those who say if you’re really that concerned, stay by the car and if you find that the parent doesn’t return soon and the child really is in danger, THEN call the cops.

People are just as nutty about their dogs. I was in a grocery store when a customer “reported” to management that someone had left their DOG in the car. It was a very mild day, not hot at all.

Soon the entire store was whispering and rubbernecking to see who the culprit was.

Police were called, the car surrounded, waiting for the guilty party to come out of the store.

It was a complete and utter circus.

I didn’t wait around to see the final show…I didn’t want to see how depraved it turned out…

I promised a follow-up with my “own vulture story,” and here it is.

I warn you–this is a VERY long post, VERY long. To wit, Lenore–if you decide you have to pull this posting ultimately because it’s too long and ungainly or whatever, I will understand. I won’t be mad that I typed all of this out “in vain,” because it won’t be–typing it out, as it is, is very cathartic for me, it being where people can read it
& know the story is an added bonus besides that.

Lenore, the rest of you–as I prepare to launch into “my story,” as I will call it, I wanted to say a couple of things really quickly.

First-off, Lenore, I really love the title “Beware the Vultures.” It is absolutely appropriate. To me, people who meddle in these are vultures, and frankly, I wish I could deal with them like we do
vultures. They need to be an endangered species. I will get to that here in a bit.

To Lori, who states that this is not really a free-range issue–I beg to differ. Free-range, sometimes, is about convenience–and why not? If we parent as these morons tell us to, there is no respect of convenience granted towards the parents, and it matters. Further, it’s about how a parent ought to be able to make those decisions–leave in the car, take with me–without worrying about a bunch of damn vultures swooping in & poking their nose in their business. It’s about how, truth is, a child really isn’t in imminent danger being in the inside of a car for a couple of minutes–so long as it’s not the scenario of it being 95 °F and the car is parked in the sun with the windows rolled up & the doors locked.

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Now, for my own “vulture story.”
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(Actually, I have two of them, somewhat.)

My wife & I have 2 children, ages 2 & 4 (roughly). We have had child protective services called on us for BOTH of them. With the 2-year old, our son–right after he was born, with both still in the
hospital, CPS became involved because a nurse in the hospital claimed my wife was holding our baby “like a sack of potatoes.” Never mind that my wife has previously worked as a worker in a daycare center, and has been highly praised by her previous employer. Never mind that my wife has no history whatsoever of hurting a child–accidentally or
on purpose. Never mind that this was in the hospital, within the 1st two days or so of when my wife underwent a C-section (any of you women
who’ve had a C section can probably relate–you’re sore as all get-out) and wasn’t herself–but STILL didn’t hurt our son.

And, most of all, never mind that the proper thing to do may have been–umm, maybe, to HELP? Instead, she calls CPS. No big deal, right?

Wrong. They end up doing an “emergency removal,” for the 1st 9 months of his life–only 3 days after he’s born–he is kept by a “foster
care” family. We only get to see them at their convenience–and believe me, their personal convenience was the top priority. We, as
the parents–they couldn’t have given a damn less about us, the system OR the foster care family–and the latter were people we knew in our
church! As it turned out, we’d see him maybe once a weekend–while other people, who HAD to be around to make sure we didn’t flee with him, hung over us–yes, like vultures–with very critical eyes as if we were prisoners on a work-release program and their organization had thousands of dollars in the safe & they had to make sure we didn’t rob
them.

Further, we had to go to family court every month–waiting sometimes all day to be seen, with both of us having to take time off of work & lose working hours in the process–to go through the red-taped
proceedings. Eventually, a new foster care family was swapped for the old one, they were much more accommodating for visits (in fact, they
were so nice, we VOLUNTARILY still see them occasionally even now), then around Thanksgiving weekend visits were ordered. Finally, in December, NINE MONTHS after he was born and they involved themselves, he is released into our care, on a TRIAL basis–the case is still legally open. Then, about 4 months later–again, we’re STILL having to
go to court and wait around all day–they dismissed the case, and he’s been home with us ever since.

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Now, for part 2 of our “vulture” story
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With our 4 year old, the story is even worse. Just after she was born, a nosy neighbor called because, we were told, we had been spotted
carrying our little girl in her carseat with her head not properly padded around the edges of her head, and thus her head would’ve been able to “flop.” I remember that well–we were constantly putting
padding around her head because we knew that newborn’s necks are rather fragile, but no matter what, that freaking padding ALWAYS managed to get lose and her head was not restrained. Regardless, there was never a problem–in fact, we demonstrated to our PEDIATRICIAN what
it was like, and we were told that it was okay, that the seat nonetheless did provide enough padding as it was.

Still, because CPS was called, they wanted to tell us who could watch our child in the day while we were at work. I told them to shove it up
their ass (really, I did that), that who watched my child when wasn’t their business–and it made the case nasty. In the end, after a situation much like with our other child, after several months the case was dismissed–after months in the courts, all over
“abuse” which never happened.

It gets worse, a LOT worse.

Our daycare called CPS, this is AFTER the case is dismissed, because a cockroach was found in her diaper bag. Now, I understand cockroaches are gross, I’m fine with that–but calling CPS because of a bug in a diaper bag? We were back in court again, only a MONTH after it was all dismissed.

Our court-appointed lawyers advised us that the case may not work out in our favor, because of the “shock value” of a cockroach being part of the story, and because our old case had only been dismissed for a month. They advised us to enter into a “conservatorship,” whereby the current foster parent would be “in charge” of our situation, and we
would still be the parents–but this “conservator” would have the authority to say where the child lived. We could always go to court later to have this arrangement undone, once our situation improved–but it would have to be at our own expense, of some nearly $3000 (which, to us, is an extremely huge amount of money).

That is what was set-up, nearly three years ago. During that time since, we have only seen our girl on weekends, sometimes not at all,
and had to pay nearly $400 a month to daycare–the very same daycare who called on us! During this time, we only would see her on the weekend for maybe a 24 hour period, no more. The only concern that was demonstrated by the system was whether or not we had paid the daycare. The system could’ve cared less of our time with our child.

Finally, last September, that somewhat changed–I had lost my job, I was being hounded for daycare money yet again. I boldly stated that I really should be allowed to watch our child at home while
I was looking work, because there was no way we could afford daycare while I was out of work (it was hard enough as it was before).

Surprisingly, this was agree to, our girl was removed from that evil daycare, and our little girl has been home all the time (except weekends, for a 24 hour period) ever since.

But–and this is the big BUT–it is totally at the discretion of the head-conservator, the foster parent. It’s not legally stated to be that way, it could still change at any time–though there is no indication of this happening.

This year, we were blessed with a large tax refund, and just last Tuesday we retained an attorney to have this setup reversed, so that we are technically the “lead” parents, as we should be. We had seen
this attorney before in family court, he was very aggressive, especially against CPS, and we decided that if we ever were to be able
to go to court to have our girl be ours totally again, he would be the one we’d hire.

We did so–at our OWN expense, of $2500.

All of this occurred because a nosy neighbor called about a non-issue, ALL because the daycare called over a bug in a diaper, ALL because people think the first thing to do is call the police or social services over every little thing they see.

This is to say nothing of previous occasions, such as the one where I had our child outside at a public auction when the child was newborn,
and a bystander advised me I should have my child protected with a mosquito-netting type of child-seat. I was courteous to her, thinking
she was just being helpful (wrong), and said to the effect “well there’s another thing the hospital could’ve told me about.” Her reply was “well that’s just common sense!” (and it was as snotty & indigent as it sounds). My reply: “well, it’s also common courtesy to MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!!”

Damn right it is.

It has left me a person very leery of the idea & mentality that we need to go around tattle-telling on other people over the silliest of things. It has left my wife a mess half the time, neurotic that everyone is out to get us–sometimes, even family. We have a
family member, an in-law (married in, as is the case with me), who is very judgmental of people’s parenting, very snotty about it–and my wife & I, and a couple of others, can’t stand her. All she does is criticize, and allude to calling CPS (she never has, never does) and thinks that this whole setup is just the best thing since GPS.

I become angry when my own wife’s parents try to show understanding towards this person, when they ought to be telling her “shut your mouth if that’s all you have to say.” After all we’ve been through, they sure ought to understand how this sort of thing would be highly dis-tasteful to us. I have to be the enforcer, and frankly–while I’m up to the task, it gets old afterwhile.

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In Closing
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What was gained by my family, a family of limited means, having to go through all of this, when our children are doing fine (even the last
CPS workers have said so!) I will tell you what was gained–my wife freaks out anytime I publicly discipline my children, even if I eventually take them to the bathroom to do so discreetly, because she is scared someone is going to call. I refuse to do that–I discipline anyway, let them call, I’m not going to stop being the parent just because a bunch of nosy busy-bodies can’t stay out of my fucking business. I have an issue to discipline over, it’s the right thing to do–I’m doing it.
Period.

We paid the $2500 for the attorney to undo this conservatorship thing because our child is worth it. However, think of what we could’ve done with
that money otherwise. We could’ve taken a great family vacation. We could’ve done some work around the house to improve the place. We
could’ve gotten a much newer car–and in our case, believe me, that’s relevant, the newest car we’ve ever owned is a 1999, and that was last
year. But instead, we’re having to spend it to undo the actions initiated by a bunch of busy-bodies.

So please, those of you who think that it’s no big deal that people want to call social services or the police–think again. You are making a mess of things. Shame on you.

And let me apologize if this story is too long and doesn’t belong here–again, Lenore, if you feel compelled to remove it or reframe it in some other manner (say, as a separate article you do with this being a “letter” to you), I consent wholly & fully to it. (I saved it to my own records so I won’t lose it, in fact I saved it there first & then copied & pasted here.)

All of that said, back to the original issue–where I live, the law clearly states that you CAN leave kids in the car, done rightly–if they’re under 5 (I believe), it can be no more than 5 minutes, and of
course it can’t be the “windows rolled up, hot day, no air conditioning” deal. But those occasions where I leave our kids in the car to go check the mail, and it’s not hot? It’s totally legal, and even after all that I’ve been through, I’m not only aware of that, I’m bold enough to STILL leave them in there, chancing that someone may call, because I’m not going to be ruled by fear, not even after all we’ve been through.

Sad story is this–I am finding out that it what it takes anymore to be a parent, and it shouldn’t have to be that way.

Thank you for letting me post this ultra-long “megapost.”

LRH

I live in Pennsylvania in the US. I have a son in preschool and an infant daughter. She used to fall asleep on the drive to the school, so instead of waking her up and dragging her inside, I’d park in the lot (a church parking lot with the building right there), leave the car running with AC or heat depending on the weather, run in, drop him off, and be back out in less than two minutes. The teacher gently informed me that I couldn’t do that. I said, “Is it a liability issue for you?” She answered yes, and I promised not to do it anymore. Problem solved, right? No. Two weeks later letters were distributed listing the PA state law that spelled out that children under the age of six could not be left in cars if their parents were out of the line of sight. I understand the preschool was covering its own behind, but really, the private conversation between the teacher and I should have been enough.

I’ve gotten in trouble for this too. With a 7 year old. Returning a redbox movie. He chose to stay, didn’t want to cross the parking lot in soccer cleats. “Friendly do-gooders” scared the crap out of him. I defended my action, cop berated me, I rolled my eyes, said “whatever” and rolled up my window and drove away. Boy did that feel good. (Though I was worried they’d track down my license plate and come after me a bit, I was certain they’d have had no case.)

I leave my children in the car with relative frequency. They are 3 and 6 years old and know the rules: don’t open the doors, don’t unbuckled your seat , don’t leave the car. Sometimes running to the mailbox to post a letter, dropping off the dry cleaning, picking up carry out dinner etc. is quick enough that leaving kids alone in the car isn’t a real danger of any kind. My mother used to leave us in the car for a half-hour or more while she did her grocery shopping!

People need to realize that they are their own worst enemies when it comes to fear of the possible but highly unlikely. Sigh.

I don’t understand why some parents here are allowing the opinions of others to dictate what they do. It seems to me that when you say “I can’t leave my kid alone in a car because someone will call the cops” that’s a form of worst-first thinking, and is just as bad as thinking you can’t leave your kid in the car because they will either be snatched or be in some other mortal peril.

As believers in the free-range philosphy, we try not to allow other people’s opinion to influence how we act and let our kids act in other situations,why let this bother us?

If you really are only gone for “a minute,” you will be in, out, and gone before the cops get there even if someone does actually call the cops.

If some busybody on the street approaches you about it, treat them like any other jerk on the road – ignore them, avoid them, or flip them off/confront them. If its the cops, ask if you are under arrest, get a badge number and leave. If its the policy of the person who owns the parking lot (church, school, store etc) you can either work with them to change the policy or choose not to support that entity.

Know your rights and the law (here’s a helpful website http://www.ndaa.org/pdf/ncpca_statute_child_neglect_abandonment_3_07.pdf) and do what you, as the parent, think is best.

If we all modified our behaviors because of what we thought would happen the free range philosophy would be dead.

I lived in fear for months after someone called the police on me (8th grade son in car with 2 year old brother buckled in car seat for 20 minutes). I was so sure I had done nothing wrong and that the policeman would say the call was just a waste of his time. Boy was I wrong. The cop told me: 1. that my teenager could not sit in the car with a younger sibling until he had his own driver’s license (I had not left the keys in the car, if you’re wondering) 2. that he, the policeman, had the right to take my child away without telling me before I came out of the store, and 3. took all my children’s names and ages (the two in the car, and the four who accompanied me into the store) and said that he was reporting me to CPS. The man who made the call stood there listening with his arms crossed and a sour look on his face.
I had always felt that I was a very good mother with adequately fed and bathed, well-behaved children who were all very loved. From that day, I felt myself change. I often felt depressed or drifty (dwelling too much on what had happened and what might be coming). I was constantly looking at our home with the eyes of a social worker thinking “if they visit right now, will they note that pile of laundry or those dishes or that it is time for another shopping run.” I worried even more if any of my children got normal childhood cuts, scratches or bruises. What if CPS would visit today?!! Thank goodness we moved far, far away about 7months later without having had any unwelcome visitors. I felt like I could leave it all behind.
While my story seems insignificant after Larry’s, it still felt like a lot of damage had been done to our life through the effects of that “do gooder’s” call. I used to have a better opinion of police thinking that their job was to protect good citizens. Now because of that experience, I (as well as my children who were with me that day) am somewhat paranoid of them.
What arrogance of any person to turn another person in for not parenting by HIS (or HER) rules!

The nature of my family business requires me to run countless errands and to many places that are not appropriate to bring 3 roudy kids (like to meet a potential client, inside warehouse for sale, etc). For times I have to leave them for more than just a few minutes, I have equipped my car with walkie talkies and a DVD player so that my kids, 6,4 and 1 can sit in their carseats watching a movie while I have a quick chat with someone (just outside the car) or run into a business to pay a bill or pick something up. I always lock the car and can see the car from the window of the business. This gives my two older kids the chance to be awesome big brothers to their baby sister. They’re always proud when I come back to the car and they’ve taken care of her needs (like picking up the sippy cup she threw). Getting to watch a DVD is also a fun perk since they don’t watch much TV. They know never to open the van door, and the windows are tinted, so unless someone is really snooping, they won’t even see them in there anyway!

I am shocked at the number of people who think it is their business to call the cops on everyone they see.

I wish we (all of the posters here) could all meet at a big parking lot one day and simultaneously walk away from our cars (with kids left safely inside) and watch from a distance while the do-gooders try to summon enough police to deal with us all!

Then wouldn’t it be nice if the police began to discourage that kind of frivolous call.

Actually, a bit of googling will give you the definition of “substantial risk”:

“Substantial risk of physical injury means that the parent, caregiver immediate family member, other person residing in the home, or the parent’s paramour has created a REAL AND SIGNIFICANT DANGER of physical injury which would likely cause disfigurement, death or impairment of physical health or loss or impairment of bodily functions.” (State of Illinois)

http://www.state.il.us/dcfs/dcfswebresource/allegations/allegations2-07.htm

Anyway, surely the arguement here is that leaving your child in the car for X minutes will not result in “disfigurement, death or imparement of health”.

As a side note: a bit of wandering around in the Illinois DCFS website lead me here:

http://www.state.il.us/dcfs/library/com_communications_zipcants.shtml

It is a list of abuse allegations by zip code in Illinois. Interestingly the majority (BY FAR!!) of the incidents are north of Chicago, close, but not in the city… is this kind of reporting “infectious”? Are one or two or a handful of people doing the reporting?

My two year old is a very light sleeper. After a long day he finally fell asleep in the car and when I got home I left him there. (nice day no threat of heat or cold). I live on two tree covered acres and can’t even see my neighbors. You can’t see the driveway from the road, much less the car or a kid in a car seat from the road and I can see the car from our big living room window. All this Is to say that when I told a friend I’d left him in the car to sleep she was mortified! Her eyes got big as saucers. She didn’t say anything but she didn’t approve. What nonsense.

I have to comment on putting the kids in the car and then putting the cart away. I always do that and it’s not for them it’s for me. I love that moment of quite it gives me. People have given me dirty looks but that’s it – so far. I’m just waiting.

Most states do not have a specific law against leaving children in a car. Nevertheless, people will still act as if such a law exists even where it doesn’t.

Even the policeman who harrassed me in WA State wrongly accused me of breaking the law (saying my 8th grade son was two years too young to sit with my toddler in the car). Friends of ours checked for us afterward with the Chief of Police in our town who verified that what I had found on line was true – the part about needing to be 16 years old only applies when the motor of the car is running! If the car is not running, the law there only forbids leaving a child under 12 parked in front of a drinking establishment! It says nothing about a school, home, bank, cleaners or any other type of store!

Donna, I have to agree. I find that the most self-righteous do-gooders are those with children who are monsters. My theory is they have to degrade what others do in some way to make them feel less like parenting failures themselves.

Like many others, I have a lot more fear about people calling CPS than I do about my kid getting abducted. She’s outgoing and social, and I am teaching her as best I can to interact with other people without fear while also being aware of the world around her. I hate that the people who are really the biggest threat to her are those who claim to only want to make sure she’s “safe”.

This subject gets my dander up. WAY WAY up. My 4 yr old daughter started at preschool this past September and in the info packet they sent out at the end of the summer there was a letter with a message in big, bold font that it’s a law in Massachusetts that children are never to be left in a car alone, even for a second; that if a parent does this, it is considered neglect; that they are mandatory reporters and will call CPS on us for neglect if it happens.

THERE IS NO SUCH LAW in Mass for ordinary citizens. For licensed care providers, yes, that is the law, but not if I want to leave my sleeping 2 yr old in the car in the suburban synagogue parking lot for 3 minutes on a cloudy, cool day.

Nevertheless, I do leave my 2 yr old sleeping in the car because he’s really heavy, and it’s just easier not to have to juggle him AND a 4 yr old with all of her preschool detritus.

But I worry every time I do it, because I have ALREADY had CPS called on me. I had a 7 year relationship with my therapist, but she wasn’t on my husband’s new health insurance when his employer switched plans, so I had to find someone new. I saw this new therapist once, and foolishly acted as though she were my old therapist: talking about my perceived failures and successes as a parent and asking for her help and advice. I told her about how I had “lost it” with my 7 yr old, and she called CPS on me that afternoon. What does CPS recommend when a parent is deemed “neglectful” and they are called to intervene? They recommend you find a therapist with whom you can talk about your perceived failures and successes as a parent and ask for advice!!!

So, because I was doing what I ought to have been doing, I now have a “record” with CPS and have to look over my shoulder if I don’t want to lug my 35lb sleeping or screaming 2.5 yr old into my daughter’s school for the 3 minutes it takes to collect her and all her stuff.

Pisses me off.

I have seriously gotten dirty looks for leaving them in the car while I go to Red-Box in the 7-11 parking lot.

I love the actual Washington Law, you can’t leave your kid in a non-running car if they are under 12 while you run in the tavern/bar.

But that poster “said” that WA had a law…which leads to misinformed adults and police. It didn’t say on the poster “only at a tavern is it a crime”.

That said, today I left my three kids 6-11 in the car a few times when I went in stores to get fever reducer (which I had to go back because it had been tampered with) and to get the anti-biotics for my son’s strep throat. Really, I figure I was doing everyone a favor, because he even at 8, still puts his hands on everything.

The worst thing that happened? They spilled soda on the back seat and had to sit in it the rest of the way home. (Usually we have water bottles, but didn’t expect to spend so LONG in the “Immediate Care” that was anything but!)

Rachel — it doesn’t say the car was running. I don’t know what she meant by “heated” — maybe just that the car was still warm.

Or maybe she had two metal keys.

It’s all about common sense right? There’s leaving your kid in the car and then there is leaving your kid in the car. I think that there has to be some kind of rule though or some way to hold some parents accountable. my husband is a medic and he has broken into so many cars because Mom/Dad has left a sleeping baby in the car on a hot summer day. One mom was pissed because he broke the new car window and really she was only gone for 20 minutes?? !! Or how about the stories of folks leaving their kids in the car while they run into the bar to grab a quick drink? I leave my 9 and 6 yo in the car when i get gas, pick up the pizza and yes even when I return the grocery cart. There is free range and then there is just negligence.

Erica, in WA, the law states that you cannot leave your child in a parked car in front of a tavern. So, no, no going in for a quick nip.

Back in the day when I only used cash, I would leave the kids in the car when I went to pay for gas. To me, it is just plain stupid to take the kids out of the car for that. Then, I moved to nanny state CA, and decided that until the kids look 12, to use the credit card instead and pay the fees.

Now that the youngest is 6, and the oldest is approaching babysitting age, I do not feel that the same conditions need apply as for babies in car seats. Because they are NOT babies any more, and sometimes, it is better that they do something educational, like read the books we just got from the library than it is to go get a gallon of milk with me. But, according to these laws, like in CA, I need to treat them like babies.

And I would be surely pissed like the other Washingtonian who had the responsible 14 year old in the car with the toddler and the police harassing me when I was certainly following the law, and leaving a responsible person in charge. Shoot, had the kid been from Montana, and 14.5, he may have even had his drivers permit! But in WA, he can’t sit in the car with a toddler.

I actually have done this for the entire school year thus far… I leave my 2 year old in the heated van with tinted windows while I walk my 5 year old into the school yard which is about the same distance as this story. My toddler also suffers from ear infections, and living in northern Canada, it can sometimes be -40 in the mornings, so leaving her in the van is the best thing for her, rather than lugging her on this stupid morning hike. Like the story above, van locked, windows tinted and toddler is safe. She is so used to it, she doesn’t cry and knows I’ll be back in the van in about 3 minutes…. MY GOD, the world has gotten so crazy.

This winter my 5 year old was sick and I needed to make a quick run into the store to pick up her Rx and some soup for her. It was a sunny day but very cold. I decided to put a sheet of paper under my windshield wiper and wrote “My daughter is sick and should not be out in the weather or around other people. The car is locked and today’s weather causes no danger to her in the car. If you are concerned please call my cell phone.” And I put my number on it. When I returned I asked her if she’d seen anyone reading the “notice”. She hadn’t. I think that this, like the free range permission slip, is a way of acknowledging and hopefully quelling other people’s concerns. A little girl was forgotten in a car parallel parked on my street
a block from my house in a heavily travelled, by both pedestrian and vehicle, downtown neighborhood last year. In that case a 911 call would have saved her life, and knowing the number of people who must have passed that car, and my own geographical proximity to the tragedy, haunted me. So I think leaving a note lets people know you know your kid is there, and curbs any alarmist thoughts. I want other people looking out for my kids. It’s part of what makes Free Range work. I just think we all need a little help in the common sense department in these overprotective, overreactive times.

My girlfriend was in a similar situation at her kid’s daycare. Her kids are at separate daycare since there is no space for siblings at either center so she has to drag both kids in, to do drop off #1, and the same when it’s pick up for kid #2. He oldest is 2.5 yo and is going through his terrible 2’s. A few times he has run off on her and into the parking lot and nearly been hit by a car (the parking lot is only for the daycare so it would be only other parents in the parking lot). He youngest is 18 months so as she struggles with him, the older one takes off, or vice versa. She started to leave the younger one in the car while she got the older one. She was reported to child services and because she did it repetitively, she is currently in the courts, fighting a charge of child endangerment. So the message I’m getting here is: It’s better to let one child get hit by a car than to leave a child in a locked car for less than 5 minutes on a cool spring day.

On another note, it’s against the law in my province to smoke in a car with a child in it (YAY!!!). This is one law to protect children that I fully support. A few times I have reported it to the local police station (or on their website) and I’m always told that I will be called in to make a formal statement should anything further come of this. Nothing ever has. Pretty sad that we police parents who are looking out for the safety of their children (running in front of a car) but not ones who are endangering the health of their children (smoking in the car).

Where I live the law is that you can’t leave a child in the car period. I do it only on a very rare occasion & I’ve always been able to see the car & never when it’s warm. The law should be written differently. Am I in violation when I get gas? Should I hold an infant in my arms while I go inside to pay & then fill my tank? Parents should be allowed to use some discresion & common sense. Luckily with my car seat you can’t always see & I have tinted windows. I have never been harassed luckily. It’s ironic that years ago durring the war when women had to work many left their babies & children in their car while they worked a night shift.

My parents used to leave me in the car alone (or with my younger sibs) all the time.

These days, how old is old enough to stay in the car alone?

Controversial momma- sorry, you are still a NOSY BUSY BODY who needs to get a LIFE! Reporting people for smoking in their own car because a kids in there- come on.

Stupid enough there’s a law, but worse that people like you take it upon yourself to be the reporters. Let the cops do their jobs, and MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.

You gonna start reporting parents for buying happy meals too???? I’m sure this is as bad as 2nd hand smoke. Do you call when people smoke in their homes too? what’s so special about a car?

Just because you don’t like smoking doesn’t mean you have the right to interfere with parents rights.

I hate cigarettes, but I HATE SMOKING POLICE EVEN MORE!!! Its still legal to smoke, back off!

We used to beg to stay in the car while our mom ran errands! We each brought a book, or had our homework, and did it while we waited. Beats the hell out of waiting in a bank line. Plus the HW and errands got done at the same time.

I like the idea of leaving a note for busybodies in the window. Maybe instead of the Baby On Board signs someone could print one of those up. “I am running errands in this shopping center and prefer to leave my children in the car for X reasons. I should return by X:XX time. Thank you for your concern, I can be reached at XXX-XXXX.”

Becca – the sleeping thing is an issue. What about those times you have to pop in somewhere for something and your overtired little one has FINALLY fallen asleep in the car? And you know once you’ve woken up, that’s the chance of a rest for them gone for hours, because for some reason they’ll never settle again soon if woken. I’ve certainly been there.

In my first comment for this post I wrote it’s time to shame the shamers, and so:

@Controversial momma — Did my eyes deceive me? Are you coming here and saying you have reported to THE POLICE people you have seen smoking in a car with children inside?

Have you not read the stories here about how such actions have RUINED PEOPLE’S LIVES. You are playing with fire with your “helpful” little heads-up to the police. I hope you suffer many many sleepless nights when you acknowledge that because of YOU someone’s may have their CHILD TAKEN AWAY FROM THEM.

The thing that is often overlooked about treating parents like this (because “the safety of children must come first”), is that treating parents like this is not good for CHILDREN. Nervous, confused, stressed and cowered parents are not good for children. The interests of parents and children are not separate.

@ Lori and David – I’m not sure you’ve been reading this blog too closely. You are simply focusing on one of several reasons that we all think the movement is important and ignoring the basic premise. The free range movement is about fighting the overriding fear in society that the world is a dangerous place so children need to be supervised by an adult every second of every day. It is about society being able to access the legitimate risks and act accordingly. Yes, one reason may of us support the free range movement is because it fosters independence but that is a result of living free range and not the heart if the movement.

Clearly, leaving a 9 month old in a car fits with the free range movement. A child, regardless of age, is virtually 100% safe in a car in a daycare parking lot for 45 seconds. So parents should be able to leave them there if they chose. The “concerned citizens” need to evaluate the true risk and not jump to the conclusion that a baby left alone for 1 second is in mortal danger.

And there is a benefit to the child. It may not foster independence in an infant (although clearly does in an older child) but not being able to stay in the comfortable car rather than being lugged out in the heat or cold is a benefit.

Further, even if it had absolutely no benefit to the child, fostering independence is only one of many reasons behind the free range movement. Another is taking the handcuffs off parents and letting them make reasonable choices for their children without society’s interference. And another is to make parenting less stressful and less of a chore and more enjoyable. I don’t mean that we abdicate our role as parents but that it’s okay to consider ourselves and our convenience. That we as rational, intelligent adults can say “There is no risk to leaving my baby in the car here for 45 seconds and it is more convenient so I’m going to leave him” without the parent’s-interests-are-meaningless-and-must-be-subjugated-to-children-every-second patrol interfering.

I’ve read Lenore’s book and have read this site avidly since I learned about it. I’m certainly not an expert, by any means. I’ve commented before on this site that I’m just dipping my toes into the free-range waters as my kids are still young. As a parent whose first instinct is to be overprotective, I have to conciously force myself to give my kids the independance they deserve. And doing that is hard for me, but I’m trying. I understand what folks are saying when it comes to this issue — and I agree with many of you. I just don’t think the negative associations among many people when it comes to leaving kids alone in cars makes it worth pursuing as a free-range ideal, in my opinion. I’d much rather see parents writing about how they let their child go into the grocery and buy milk on their own, while they waited in the car, if that makes sense.

I hate how nosy people are these days. Once when I was out running errands, I had to go mail a package at the post office real quick, but my 2 year old fell asleep in the car before we got there. So I had a huge debate at the post office…run in, mail the package while leaving him in the car? Wake him up and try to mail the package with a screaming toddler? Or just give it up all together? I ran in real quick to see if there was a line…there was, so I gave up. Not because I was afraid something might happen to him, but because I was afraid someone would see him in the car and call the cops.
I ended up just giving my husband the package and asking him to mail it while he was at work the next day.

Also, Tuppence, every time the cops respond to something like that, you’re running the risk (how big this risk is depends on your area) that they’re NOT responding to something a little more, well, important.

Let’s save the emergency line for the actual emergencies (and CPS for situations where children really need to be protected).

It is stories like this that make me glad about our decision to get tinted windows on our car. We got them for just this reason – so we could leave the kids in the back but it would be difficult for people to notice that we were doing just that!

Just in case no one else has posted it:

http://tinyurl.com/celr3l

This is a story from the WaPO on how parents accidentally leave their kids in cars. It’s very rare but its an absolutely gut-wrenching read. I was able to get through it once; can’t read it again.

Long story short: our memories are not well-designed. It is very easy for people to forget about a kid in the back seat when they’re tired or distracted or out of their routine.

This issue and Free Range will always belong together in my mind. It is the only reason I found this website in the first place! Over a year ago when I was feeling so low and alone after my encounter with the do-gooder and the CPS-reporting policeman in the grocery store parking lot, I did an internet search to see if there was anyone else out there on my side. It led me here, and I found friends! I don’t believe there is any other place to find support for parents who have faced this type of harrassment.

antsy I like that idea very much. Maybe a good one could read “raise your kids, not mine.” Or one like “you can raise my kids when you pay for their food & daycare.”

LRH
LG Optimus V, Android 2.2, Virgin Mobile

I recently left my 2 month old baby in the car while checking the mail. I parked directly in front of the mailboxes, and was away from the car for literally less than 30 seconds. Another woman was also getting her mail, and gave me a dirty look and said, “You know, it only takes a few moments for someone to break a window snatch a baby.” I didn’t even respond. People are so fearful and paranoid! Did she really think someone would be lurking in a large parking lot, in broad daylight, in full view of several apartment buildings and the main office of the complex, just waiting to steal a baby?

“You know, it only takes a few moments for someone to break a window snatch a baby.”

To which the appropriate response is, “The only person close enough to my car right now to do that in a few seconds is YOU. Is this a cry for help?”

I go back to an earlier revelation: WHO wants to risk jail time for the privilege of taking care of my high-maintenance, incontinent, crabby, stinky, snotty, noisy, hungry baby/tot who isn’t going to like them anyway? Extra points if they are ambitious enough to steal BOTH of my brats at the same time!

Or maybe we should answer, “don’t worry, I have taught my children to bite!!”

Easy for me to joke, as I haven’t been reported yet. Truth is, I do hightail it back to my car ASAP lest some busybody report me. And we recently switched to boosters, which my kids can unbuckle – convenient, but with preschoolers who have a mind of their own, I hesitate to trust them 100% not to sneak into the front seat and touch the controls. But that’s my personal choice.

Again Donna–right on. People really do need to mind their own business.

There can be payback though, this is funny–last Friday I was with family, one of them has a tendency to be judgmental. She got hers though–she tried to take him to the bathroom when he had to go & stupidly tried to pick him up & carry him vs letting him walk (thinking “he’s too young for that”–at age 2!) and he showed her what he thought of that.

He peed on her! Ha ha!

That’s my boy!

LRH
Blackberry Bold 9000

At a new years party this year, my 2 1/2 year old daughter was really overwhelmed with all of the family ( and the football on TV) who were at her Nana’s house. Desperately needing a nap, Nana and I finally caved (I almost never use the car as a means of putting her to sleep – bad habits formed that way…) and strapped her in her car seat and took a drive… worked like a charm, my kid fell asleep. Upon returning to Nana’s house, in the country on 10 acres with only family and close friends with us, I left my little girl in the car to nap in peace. It was cold, so I put a blanket on her, kept the window open so that I could see in from the house. Numerous well meaning hyper paranoid grandmothers, most of whom weren’t related to her, fussed at me for not taking care of her. I finally caved and went out and checked – she was warm and still sleeping happily. So, I left her there. I told them all that she was fine, she was warm and most importantly, she was asleep. She has a bad track record for staying asleep when brought in from the car and I knew that coming back into the very noisy house would not work. In the end, she got her nap, I stood my ground and the grandma’s all got a lesson in chilling the blink out.

“The first time I ever read that article and saw it posted, there were a number of replies to it going ‘I forgot my kid in the car/high chair/crib/daycare once, but luckily nothing bad happened”.

Yep, I did it once, right outside my own back door, with the car parked on the street. I can’t even remember just what the usual routine was then, but that day I had my hands full and so I decided to leave toddler in car seat and then go back and get her after I’d unloaded. That in itself would get the crazies after me, I know, because you’re always supposed to take the KID in and leave the STUFF outside — but kid was sleeping and the street outside my back door at the time was perfectly safe. I remembered maybe 20 minutes later when I walked past her bedroom door and realized it was open — if child was quiet and not in view and not in her crib with the door shut — OMIGOSH SHE’S STILL IN THE CAR!!!! It wasn’t a particularly hot day and I think I’d even left the side door of the van open, so there was no danger at all, except to my mental state.

I frequently leave the kids in the car parked in our driveway while I run upstairs (one flight up) to get something out of our apartment. If the weather is warm, I’ll leave the windows open. I’m never gone more than a minute. I always wonder if someone is going to call CPS on me.

OMG they actually did it here in Utah– they passed SB124 and it’s gone to the Governor’s desk last week. It says you can’t leave a child under 9 in the car with the engine running or the keys in the car. There’s no exception for if it’s hot and the engine needs to be running to keep the A/C on. I just sent the governor an email begging him to veto it. Please, if you live in Utah, do the same!

Tdr, I am also thankful for tinted windows. When I lived in CA we had an older car that only had lap belts in the back. Car seats only work up to 40 lbs with the harness, then they are supposed to be used with a shoulder belt only – NEVER a lap belt.

Well, I had 3 kids in seats at one point, but had to graduate them to lap belt (no booster for the above reason.) I called the CHIP to ask if what I was doing was legal. Cop #1 said that I should have the child in the booster seat sit up front with the shoulder belt. (Um, which one? I had two that needed boosters.) Cop #2 said they were Ok in the back seat with lap belts, and if anyone said otherwise tell them that he said so. Um, sure, I am sure they will agree to that outside the county where they don’t know you. Oh, and CA law says that children under 12 are not supposed to be in the front seat!

So, I basically figured a belt of some sort, even without the booster to 80lbs, was better than nothing, and hoped that no one would notice. No one did, even the one time we got stopped for a tail light out.

Sera Your point makes sense, but it doesn’t invalidate everything.

The solution, I feel: discipline. Our (almost) 4 year old girl grabbed our carkeys, and when I found out, she was on the receiving end of very powerful & emphatic discipline. In subsequent occurrences on the same day (where we’d check out a couple of garage sales & would leave the kids in the car while we did so), I actually made a point to leave the keys in the car anyway–and let it be known, I DARE you to touch those keys, to even stare at them with too much interest–and found out what I’ll do to you.

If it upset or scared her, tough–that’s the price you pay when you play with things no one gave you explicit permission to play with, especially when (as was the case that day) we had just given her a few toys to play with to occupy herself. Incidentally, I also took the toys away and let it be known–why should I let you have those toys when you disrespect me that way (to say nothing of playing with other things when the toys ought to do it for you)?

I’m the same way with the whole getting out of their seat, and even with removing their shoes. Maybe they like to ramble around while we’re out of the car for a couple of minutes–tough. Your tempermant & nature isn’t my main concern (although I factor it in to SOME extent), but obedience of my orders.

Others will tell me “that’s what kids do” (exploring playing etc), my response–we need to expect more out of them, and that includes obedience.

LRH

Amy, this reminds me of a fascinating discussion I had with friends of various ages, in the UK, about parents going to the pub when they were kids. Several older people said they were often left on the back step of the pub, or even in the back of the car, with a soft drink and some crisps, until their parents had finished having a quiet drink!

Boring maybe, but no one at the time would have considered it dangerous.

Tinted windows are a life saver with this sort of thing! I’m always thankful for my minivan’s privacy, when I do dastardly things like leave my 10 year old in the car while running books into the library for 30 seconds. I’m glad no one can see what evil I’m up to!

As a parent it is not outrageous to be worried that someone will call the cops on you. It happens in Illinois…way more often than it should. It is often safer for me to run inside and do my biz then come back out. NOT dragging kids through the hot or the cold (and we have an auto starter so we can leave our car running and appropriately temperature controlled AND locked but without the worry that the kids will dislodge the gear shift, before we had that we did it ab it differently). But here a woman was arrested for it last year…as she walked less than 100 feet to drop off clothing in a (OUTSIDE) donation bin. In Illinois the law is something like 13 years old (It may be 11, but I think it’s 13 and regardless it’s RIDICULOUS.) to leave your kids alone under any circumstance. I don’t leave my infant in the car because it freaks him out and being in tune with my child’s needs is the corner stone of free ranging I think. My older 2 kids (6 and 5 years old) know that it’s a privilege for them to stay in the car instead of being dragged in to Walgreens for less than 5 minutes and they are clear on the rule of you keep your tush in your seat and your seatbelt on or next time I make you come with me. So far they haven’t broken the rule.

And really, what scares me more than danger to my child in this situation, is other parents sticking their nose where it doesn’t belong.

Bravo, Donna. Especially this:

“A child who is old enough to intentionally take the car out of park and disengage the parking brake is old enough to know better.”

Even accidentally — I can’t imagine a child under 3 having the manual dexterity/strength to do either, let alone both of those. And three is old enough for a typical child to learn a minimum number of absolutely, always, never things — like “never touch anything on the car when Mom or Dad isn’t there.” You can’t teach a three year old to stay out of all kinds of trouble, but you can certainly teach them a few absolutes, which they are capable of obeying.

And though I won’t argue with those who’ve experienced this, I’ve always wondered about these wunderkinds who can unstrap themselves from car seats at ages one and two and get themselves into trouble with car controls — because surely, any typical child over age three knows better and has the capacity to obey when told not to. My kids always fussed about getting themselves in and out at least until age 4, though at that age I always insisted they manage unless I was in a tearing hurry, and they were always able to do it after a little sturm and drang. How do those little fingers push the buttons and squeeze the clasps that even I sometimes struggled with?

Blerg. I mean, I can see the rationale… I knew someone whose poor baby died of overheating this way… but not in winter and not for 45 seconds. A car seat is probably the safest place in the whole world.

WOW! This is one popular topic! What a touchy subject for so many people. Leaving the sleeping baby in the carseat in a locked car. Well, I no longer have any small infants. But I still have a rearward facing child seat. I think it is time to pull that out of retirement and borrow my 7 year olds realistic looking baby doll. I think dolly needs a trip to the mall!

This is just crazy! Why is this such a big deal? A whole 30 seconds of letting your kid stay in a safe car. Wow. When we were kids my mom let us stay in the car for 30 minutes or more. What is happening in todays world? It’s no wonder our kids are growing up so scared, and reliant on other people!

I am with the majority on this one. Leaving a child in the car while running a short errand close by makes more sense than dragging the child with you. I can’t think of anywhere more dangerous for a child to walk around than a petrol station. Plenty of cars pulling in at speed or pulling out, not necessarily aware of where a child is.
Maybe this was a rule thought up by the fuel lobby to ensure parents spend more at petrol station- if one of my kids comes in with me it usually costs me the equivalent of at least 5 dollars in candy and comics

Plus, if anyone is as desperate to steal a child that they will break into a car, then they may also snatch the child away from your grasp while you are walking to the cash desk. This begs the question: is a parent doing enough for their child’s safety leading them by the hand: Perhaps there should be a law forcing parents to cuff their children to them in public, up to the age of 18? You can never to too safe 🙂

Umm Larry, I’m sure there is more to your story. One child being removed from your care might be a case of a mistaken belief in your lack of parenting skills…but two children on separate occasions??? And for that long… Sorry Mr but having worked in child protection, children are not removed for lame reasons and if it is a mistake, you can bet they are returned ASAP so methinks you are either in complete denial or hiding something.

When we lived in Europe in the late 1980s, my mom said mothers often left their sleeping or young babies in prams parked outside the stores while they went in and did their shopping.

I just don’t understand why leaving a child strapped in a car seat in a locked car on a temperate day for a few minutes while I run into the post office/dry cleaners/preschool is a crime. Ridiculous.

I remember when my daughter was only a few weeks old. I would run into the post office (having left the car running with the A/C on) and people would ask where she was. They were HORRIFIED that I had left my comfortable, asleep infant in the car rather than rouse her. I live in a small town in the high desert. The closest towns in all directions are 30 minutes away. The odds of someone breaking into my car in the 3 minutes I was in the Post Office were relatively slim, and even if it had happened they would have been caught within an hour with air surveillance. The A/C was on, she wasn’t going to overheat…. I understand this fear is born of real incidents of idiot parents locking their kids in cars in the summer with the windows rolled up and no cool air – but for cripes sake, folks, take the actual circumstances of each specific event for what they are and don’t make sweeping judgments based on the worst case scenario!

Homeschool.

N E V E R call the police. Quit using “public” schools, parks, libraries, post offices, etc. Starve them out.

If at first you don’t secede…

How about a bumpersticker that says: You mind your business and I’ll mind mine!!! Been there done that with CPS. Someone called in on me when my kids were young (thank god they’re grown now!) and reported that I fed them PB&Js for breakfast. I do have one question though, wouldn’t you be suspicious if I (a total stranger) offered to keep an eye on your kids in the car while you ran a quick errand? Thanks for having this site and making us aware that stranger danger is absolute bullshit!!!!

Read Greg Weingarten’s article, Fatal Distraction in the WA Post about kids who die in hot cars. After you hear the medical examiner’s testimony about the child who pulled out all of her hair before she died, then tell me it’s okay to leave your kid in the car. There have been kids who were left in the car in 50 degree weather and still died because it got so hot in the car.

It’s never okay to leave a child in the car, or anyone who can’t physically let themselves out. So young children, mentally challenged, disabled, etc. Even for 30 seconds. People are easily distracted and 30 seconds can turn into 30 minutes. I’ll gladly call 911 if I see a child in the car, and I’ll break your car window out while I wait for the police if the operator tells me to do so.

Good on the Kiwi press for not mother bashing how lucky they all were but what a freak thing to happen glad all are ok. Well done for reframing this incident Kiwi Mum, Love your work.

Because it’s called life. Stuff happens ALL THE TIME, but almost always NOTHING happens. Nothing happens in a minute, 5 minutes, 10 minutes.

My children are more likely to be hit by a car in the parking lot or dealing with street parking than they are to be stolen (or be in my car while it is being stolen) in the 5 minutes it takes me to walk inside a store and pick something up that I need. COULD it happen…yes, it could. They could also be ripped out of my arms as we walk hand in hand across the parking lot together. If your guide is “why take the risk” there is nothing safe enough…

Katya – you can not avoid life, shit happens. “Why take that chance” is a ridiculous way to look at most things in life. You could be killed in a car wreck regardless of if you are in the car, a pedestrian or on a bike, so you should just stay home? Why take the risk? You could die in pregnancy and child birth…why take the risk? Your dryer could catch on fire…why take the risk and dry your clothes in a dryer? You could hit your head in the shower and drown if your foot hits the tub drainer…why take the risk….You could choke on food if you eat without a friend who knows CPR, so never eat alone….why take the risk? You could be assaulted in an elevator…why take the risk, walk up those stairs…oh wait…you could be assaulted in a stair well…why take that risk…most rapes happen because the rapist seizes an opportunity…don’t leave your house, hire a body guard…why take the risk? All of your personal information could be stolen over the internet through no fault of your own and your entire credit history and financial life could be ruined….why take the risk.

The only thing in MY life where “why take the risk” rings true for is driving after having even one drink…it’s not a risk I’m willing to take.” The rest of life, every thing you do is a risk, a calculated risk. And if your life or town has been personally affected by a tragedy like those that OCCASIONALLY BUT VERY RARELY happen than your risk benefit analysis will be different…and that’s okay.

Wow thanks everyone, what a relief to read there are other “evil-doers” like me! Today, my daughter and 2 grandchildren were running errands – it is 53 degrees windy and cloudy today – we stopped at a strip mall to check out a small second hand store – the 3 year old grandson was fast asleep, we tried to jostle him awake, no luck, we slammed the car doors and waited…no response from him. I hit the lock button and armed the security system and the rest of us walked the few feet to the store. We had stepped inside for less than 5 minutes (I quickly realized the store had nothing to offer me) when my car was paged over-head and this raging crazy women said she was calling the police! With her cell phone to her ear she followed us out to my car screaming at us the whole time. I unlocked my car and myself, my daughter and 4 year old granddaughter got in the car, slammed the doors and drove away – all the while my grandson sat buckled in his car seat fast asleep. This happened 8 hours ago, and I still keep looking for the cops to show up and arrest me. The world has gone mad….