“If He’s Got a Pecker, Run Like Hecker!” Good Morning America’s Hypocritical Advice About Stranger Danger

It’s sad that these all seem plausible.

Y chromosome; leave him alone.
If he’s male, haul ass and bail.
If he’s a buck, you’re outta luck.

So would it be OK to approach a man with a baby? Why should a woman with a baby be trustworthy, but not a man with a baby? Should the assumption be that any man with a baby is already in the process of abducting the baby?

Also, why is the one guy without the badge two feet taller than the rest of them (who all happen to be exactly the same height)? Think maybe it was intentional to make him look more imposing to a short child?

I’m glad they’re urging people to rethink Stranger Danger, but why can’t they just be honest and admit that almost nobody, male or female, has any desire to run off with someone else’s kid?

I was walking at Greenlake (a beautiful man-made park in Seattle) one fall in some of my common attire which was some form of nearly nude. Every day, except in cases of bad rain, there are hundreds of people who walk at the lake, on the walking path around the lake. People even walk around the lake when it is cold and I would walk at the gym instead. It is a fairly safe place in daytime hours.

So, on this one day in, I think 2015 or perhaps 2014, there are these two young girls of what seem to be 1st or 2nd or 3rd grade age. I am walking headed east and they are walking headed west. They see me and one of them says danger or stranger danger or something like that. They then run, though they run westwards meaning that their running takes them a bit towards me, though they veered off the walking path to make their little run.

On that day, I walked 2 circuits around the lake. Abour 40 minutes or an hour later I was at one point and I think that the two kids were near a bush, partly hiding but partly visible, and somewhat watching me to help determine if I was safe or if they should fear danger.

lol . . .

They have survived and I hope they enjoyed their small adventure!

What about a man with children? I was lost at the Skyline Drive Shenandoah National Park when I was fourteen–I had gone for a walk and got turned around about a half-mile from the campsite. I saw a man with his two daughters, both carrying Cabbage Patch Dolls and asked him for a ride back to my campsite and he drove me back. There’s no reason why a man with kids or even a man alone should be automatically considered less trustworthy.

I find it interesting that these people who are so scared of some unknown man seem to forget that these are the same men who are in their lives, as brothers, spouses, sons, etc. So, they’re saying that it’s okay to vilify men who are strangers, even though their loved ones are included in that category. I’m sure they say to themselves “Well my husband/son/(fill in the blank) would never do anything horrible to a child, but your husband/son/(fill in the blank) just might.” Hypocrisy, pure and simple!

Cheep prop badge, no uniform, handcuffs… kid, that’s the one to worry about. That and probably the woman carrying around the baby doll and pretending it is real. I know, I know, cheep production, use your imagination.

The instructions I’ve given my daughter on what to do if she gets separated from me in public are:
-If you get lost in a store, go to the front, pick someone working at a counter and ask “would you please page [full name who she came with]”
-If you get lost elsewhere, ask the nearest adult to please call me and stay put. If there is no obvious danger, do not allow anyone to lead you away from where you are. And especially never allow anyone to move you out of sight of where other people are.

Is it just me, or do the kids in this video seem way too old not to know what to do if they get separated from their parents in a grocery store? (At that age, I’m sending mine a couple of aisles over to pick something up.) And why such emphasis on only asking for help only in a dire situation?

When my youngest son was three, we were at the zoo with another family. There was a fork in the path and he zigged while the rest of us zagged. It was extremely crowded and I didn’t know if he’d gone into the primate building or around it in either direction, so I stopped the first zoo employee I saw with a radio clipped to her belt.

In the meantime, my preschooler had realized that he had a problem and asked for help from a group of construction workers who were doing repairs on the building. We hadn’t discussed what to do if he got lost, because he was still young enough that he was always holding my hand. Men operating power tools wouldn’t have been *my* suggestion to him (not because they’re men, but because I have this idea that you’re not supposed to interrupt the person using potentially dangerous equipment), but he found someone who obviously worked for the zoo and just as I was explaining that he was lost, he came trotting up holding the hand of a security guard.

I’ve always told my kids that if they lose track of us in a store they should ask for help from the person at the cash register. Not because I think they’re safer than anyone else — they’re the one with access to the PA system. Ask a mom with a baby for help and she’s going to find an employee. I’m guessing the random guy would do the same thing.

Want your kids safe? Teach them to approach a group of bikers (motorcycle riders). Most of us are fathers and the thought of someone harming a child gets us rather upset (understatement of the year award). NO ONE will harm a child under the protection of bikers. We’ll get that kid back with his/her parents ASAP.

Serious. We (bikers) will help.

“So would it be OK to approach a man with a baby? Why should a woman with a baby be trustworthy, but not a man with a baby?”

In my experience, men with babies are considered okay. The baby proves (somehow) that we’re not horrible humans after the blood of children. I’ve been in a number of situations before and after having children (and with/without my kids in tow), and can state that my experience supports the conclusion that when people see a man with a baby/small child, they treat him like a human. Otherwise, they treat him like a criminal.

A few weeks back I went grocery shopping with my wife. We decided to split up, and both our boys wanted to go with Mom. My fault–I walk too fast (0.87 meter stride on flat ground, compared to 0.9 meter tall child….) and they were tired. Anyway, we agreed that we’d do our respective tasks, then meet at a certain spot. I got done and went to that spot. Then spent five minutes enduring glares and comments from pretty much EVERY customer there, and multiple store clerks obviously keeping an eye on me. It got bad enough that I had to leave the area. Contrast that with what happened last week, when I had one of my kids with me: Multiple parents came up to talk about how adorable the child was, and a young mother parked her cart near me for a few minutes (to search through the cooler I was standing next to). My son and her kids made faces at each other the whole time. In both cases I was dressed business casual, I’m pretty clean-cut these days, and in both cases I was standing there, minding my own business. The only difference was the presence of the child.

On a different note: I always love how this sort of flagrantly sexist nonsense is apparently allowed as long as it’s against the right people. If someone dared to say that women by themselves were, categorically, not to be trusted, that someone would be looking for a new job if not facing criminal charges the next morning. But stating that men are evil unless proven otherwise is, somehow, socially acceptable. Anyone else remember South Pacific?

You have to be taught before it’s too late
Before you are 6 or 7 or 8
To hate all the people your relatives hate!
You have to be carefully taught!

Guy with a dick! Run! Quick!

A comment here made me look up baby snatching, and guess what? Since 1983, there have been 306 incidents of baby-snatching, and in 296 of them, the abductor was female.

I wish I had that statistic in my mind as I, a 52 year old grey haired guy, was walking out of the very busy public library this morning behind a mom, her toddler and infant. She looked back at me, gave that well-known stricken look, and grabbed the toddler and said, “we’ve got to speed up now!”

I have two sons, and it always makes me sad to read stuff like this.

We were at story hour at the library, and the subject of stranger danger was being discussed. There was a father there with his two kids. A female librarian told him point blank, in front of everyone, that men are 70% more likely to be child molesters. So children should never go up to a man, even if he has children.

The look on his face! To this day I haven’t forgiven myself for not speaking up and telling her what a horrible thing she did. The man never came back with his children.

As the parent of a boy, I’m curious about how old a male has to be for other people to worry that he’s dangerous. Does that age overlap with the time when he’s considered too young to wait in the car while I run into 7-11? /sarcasm/

But seriously, how do I prepare him for people to be wary of him? His body is growing quickly… At 8 years old he’s approaching my (short) height, but he’s still very much a child who prefers to have me by his side to being independent. How soon will we be dealing with others’ fears, and how do I prepare him for that without screwing with his sense of self? I know anyone who doesn’t look Caucasian has been dealing with this forever- how do you do it?

Lol! Ignorance. Another example of booksmart but common sense stupid. Because if anyone of those experts who teach these stereotypical notions really understood life and the world, they’d realize that there are plenty of women, mothers, daughters, sisters, as well cops (male and female). Including security guards (male of female). Who are in jail for crimes they committed. Including crimes against children.

I’ve often said, it’s not what you do, what you have, or even if you were a badge and work for the law, it’s who you are as a person that determines whether you are a good person or not. Misconceptions. That’s all they are spreading.

My advice, if you the kid needs help because something happened to his/her mom in the grocery store. You ask the first person you see for help. There really is no time to pick and choose. Your mothers life is at stake. Remember, they’re asking for help, not running off with the person they asked for help.

Some might argue, “what if that first person is a guy and he grabs her?”. Well, first of all, that would be very remote thing to happen. So remote, that you have a better chance of winning the lottery, being struck by lightening, or even being hit by a car. But no one ever worries about those like they do random abductions. And those other things can kill you (except for the winning the lottery. Unless you have a weak heart. lol). It doesn’t get worse than that.

Selective fearing contributes to unwarranted ignorance and paranoia.

Well, I guess we understand why Jesus said “*suffer* the children to come unto Me”.

if they are a guy, it is time to fly. Don’t stop to think or ask why!

It’s a start. I’m glad to see that the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children is no longer saying that 100% of all strangers are dangerous.

I don’t really see that it any way matters which person you ask for help in a public place. Obviously the vast majority of people are not child molesters or kidnappers and genuinely want to be helpful. But for the sake of arguments, let’s say the person you ask for help IS the neighborhood serial killer. In the middle of a grocery store, what are they going to do?? Drag you out kicking and screaming in front of dozens of people? As long as you are teaching your children not to leave with people I suspect the worst thing that would happen from them asking ANYBODY for help would be to be told to get lost.

It matters AmyP, because all we hear from “experts” is “Adults should never ask kids for help”, along with all the fear of males; male day care employees can’t change diapers, male teachers can’t meet one-on-one with students, males can’t sit next to unaccompanied females on a plane, can’t let my kid sleep over at a friend’s house if dad is the only adult home….and on and on and on.

That’s why it matters. This is just one more thing to pile on.

Advise phone, advise.

And one last one…

Reve Walsh was only 16,
When John Walsh gave her his string bean…

@donald
“It’s a start. I’m glad to see that the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children is no longer saying that 100% of all strangers are dangerous.”

It would be interesting if they were, because everyone at the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children is, to me, a stranger.

“”Cops are also good.”

Perhaps. They’re supposed to be good, and to have higher standards than the general population. But speaking as someone who’s family regularly annoyed the cops, I can tell you that this is far from universal. I was taught to NOT go to the cops.”

I’m pretty sure the number of children abducted and molested by cops from public stores is pretty low. If you lived in Hazzard County and are surnamed “Duke”, I guess you might want to teach your kids differently. Call me an idealist.

“Again, got any evidence to support this? Because I can immediately think of two reasons to conclude the opposite: 1) Adults with children are already fully occupied and have little attention to spare; and 2) Adults shopping with children are almost certainly on a tighter schedule than those shopping alone”

The point of going to a random adult in the store is that they will lead the child to the employees who can actually do something to re-unite parent and child. A parent with children is more likely to know where, in the store, such an employee can be found than is an adult who has no children.. The point was and is, the presence of children is likely comforting to the child, enabling a timid or shy child to actually ask for help.

“children really don’t take missing meals very well”
If taking a lost child to a checkout counter causes your child miss meals, you need to re-evaluate your life.

“I’d rather my kids avoid the frazzled woman yelling at her three kids as they rampage through the toy section, or even the woman struggling to comfort a screaming baby.”
OK. Were you expecting opposition to this?

(My kid wasn’t shy, so she was taught to look for employees of the store if she got lost. Why? Because they’re the ones who can actually help… others are just going to pass the lost kid to an employee. My kid was smart enough to cut out the middleman. YMMV.)

“The issues above still apply in terms of evidence for whether or not they’re more likely to be problematic than solo men”
Solo adult men, solo adult women, groups of either or both… they’re all just shoppers in the store, who may or may not know where a lost child should be directed. Store employees do know. Cops (or uniformed security officers) are more likely to know, and they often have radios.
You’re confusing “this is who it’s safe to ask for help” (which is so close to everybody as to be statistically insignificant) with “this is the fastest way to get reunited with your lost parent”. The latter question has tiered answers, and a smart parent teaches their kids what they should do to get the fastest re-unification.

Teaching them “don’t approach a single man wearing an overcoat, no socks, and a “Make America Great Again” hat? Parental prerogative. Teaching them “don’t approach any single man” is dumb, but also still parental prerogative. (Again, it’s not what NCMEC is actually advocating… no matter how much indignation we can generate by pretending that it is.) Teaching them to look for an employee to ask for help is smart, if the kid can do it. (Does the kid look for a nametag, or the first person with a red shirt on in the Target store?). If you have a particularly timid or shy child, you can point them towards adults with kids (male or female or groups with both) if it will make the child more able to ask for help.

I’ll concede that there are some cases where you might not want to point your kids at a cop. If you are a criminal, for example, but also if your only crime is having a name that ends with a “z” in Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s county. I’m a white guy from the suburbs, my daughter was a white girl from the suburbs. I’m pretty sure any hypothetical future children I might produce will also be white in tone. Cops are our friends.

@mofom8

Hahahaha! Good question, especially considering many at the moment are actually transtrenders who admittedly have no plans to ever transition.

They just grow their hair out, wear a little makeup, throw on a tank top and jeans and say they’re a lesbian. It’s some form of exalted, or failed, cross dressing that knocks off a few privilege points. (I personally miss the loud and proud cross dressers of the world, who refrained from telling lesbians that they were transphobic if they wouldn’t sleep with them). From my observations, it lasts about 5 years so I’m going to say it’s a revolving limbo.

Actual transpersons… less that 1% of the population so I doubt many will have to sweat it.

“how does this apply to the whole transgender thing…? Is it safer to approach a man who’s crossing over than a woman who’s going the other direction?”

Easy. Just follow them to the bathroom, and when they get out their birth certificate to show the cop stationed at the door, ask the cop for help finding the lost parent.

Someone coming out as non binary on the trans day of visibility makes me want to throw on Zappa’s Joe’s Garage, though there is no need to revisit 1979. It’s here again.

This is the CENTRAL SCRUTINIZER
You have just destroyed one model XOJ-37 Nuclear Powered Pan-Sexual Roto-Plooker, you’re gonna have to pay for it! So give up, you haven’t got a chance.

I’ll say again. It’s a start. Kids are starting to be taught how to recognize strangers that they can seek help from. Granted, it’s not going as far as we’d like – yet. However, it’s much better than it previously was. We have had more than 20 years of, “If the person has a dong, you’d better move along”! This ‘wisdom’ is not going to disappear overnight. It has to start somewhere.

“I’m pretty sure the number of children abducted and molested by cops from public stores is pretty low.”

I am absolutely certain that the number of children abducted PERIOD is low, so this is a non-issue. It also wasn’t the question. I specifically asked if cops were MORE or LESS likely to abduct children than men without children.

“A parent with children is more likely to know where, in the store, such an employee can be found than is an adult who has no children.”

How could you conclude that? The mere act of being in the company of a child provides no information on one’s knowledge of the store layout.

As for the repeated use of “the point”, you sure missed mine. I wasn’t giving an exhaustive list of reasons to object to going up to parents, but was merely demonstrating that such considerations exist, something you didn’t appear to have accounted for. Sure, 99 out of 100 can and probably will help you–but since the overwhelming majority of men aren’t child kidnappers, we’re talking extremely small percentages here.

My point is, we’re not looking for reasons to talk to a mother with kids. We’re talking about going up to one of these AS OPPOSED TO a male without kids. There’s just as much reason to go to the men as to the women.

Kids are more likely to talk to parents with children? I guess it depends on the kid. My kids aren’t, not significantly anyway. If your kid is, then sure, this works, but basing a broad educational approach off of one family is going to fail rather badly.

“Were you expecting opposition to this?”

Are you familiar with argument ad absurdium? What I described was an action that violated none of your statements, was still plausible (which violates the “absurdium” part, but it still works), and yet is an undesirable outcome. It suggests there may be a slight problem with your argument.

“Solo adult men, solo adult women, groups of either or both… they’re all just shoppers in the store, who may or may not know where a lost child should be directed.”

So are mothers (or fathers) with kids. You have yet to demonstrate that the presence of a child has any influence on this knowledge–just a mere assertion that it’s true. It’s even probably true of the cops in the store, though they should be trained to handle the situation (whether they follow their training is an open question).

“You’re confusing “this is who it’s safe to ask for help” (which is so close to everybody as to be statistically insignificant) with “this is the fastest way to get reunited with your lost parent”.”

No–I quite specifically addressed this in my last paragraph, in which I describe the specific reason going to a store clerk is the best option. I merely disagree that there’s any real difference between “male by himself” and….well, anyone not in the store in an official capacity. Not unless there’s some specific issue not included in the parameters of the hypothetical, anyway.

What I am doing is refusing to ignore the fact that you are substituting mere assertion for actual evidence. You provided none in your response, and merely doubled down on the assertion that people with kids magically know the layout of stores better than people without kids. Please note that I’m not saying you’re wrong–I’m saying we haven’t gotten to the point where we can meaningfully discuss if you’re right or wrong. THAT is the issue I have with your comments in this thread.

” I’m pretty sure any hypothetical future children I might produce will also be white in tone. Cops are our friends.”

I’m German-Irish. Thus far, in my experience, it hasn’t helped. But that’s me personally, and obviously doesn’t scale.

I’ve said it before here- let’s call this attitude what it is: sexist. Every time we hear it. IRL or online.

It’s almost as if men should be staying at home, in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant, making “sammiches”

‘It’s almost as if men should be staying at home, in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant, making “sammiches”‘

Reminds me of something I saw recently on twitter. The paper towels going by the brand name Brawny have long featured a man on their packages – a brawny man, naturally.

Now they’re going to have a woman on the packages too.

The twitter item asked “so now women can be identified with cleaning up kitchens and other household tasks? How far we’ve come!”

🙂

“As for badges, in many of these situations, you are not looking at a cop, but a security guard. Many are well trained and probably ok, but how many are Barney Fifes who couldn’t make it in the academy, but still have a deeep desire to be in authority somewhere? Not my first choice.”

You spend the first half of your comment talking about how you don’t like it when you get pre-judged. Then, you spend the second half of your comment pre-judging other people. The irony was delicious.

” Many of the others [cops] are well trained, but are all too anxious to try out their combat skills, and too young to know when not to.”
Conceded. If you live somewhere where the cops can’t be relied upon not to try out their combat skills on a 3-year-old child looking for mommy or daddy, your kids should not be taught to look for police for help.

“The best police should be busy looking for real crime and shouldn’t be bothered unless there is a real problem.”
Well, no. The BEST police have done such a good job reducing crime that they have time to do other services for citizens, like jumpstart their stalled cars or help lost kids find their parents.
The best RUN police agencies use a technique called “community policing”, wherein they interact regularly with citizens. This reduces the “us vs. them” mentality that can infect both sides, and significantly improves the effectiveness of the police in reducing crime.

“I never said anything about prejudging me.”
Right. Except for when you did.
“The only time I, or most of the dads, get the stranger danger reaction is when the “HeadStart” children come to the playground. Suddenly we are all perps.”

“As regards the (few) cops who may or may not be relied upon to not not try out combat on children — Notwithstanding the frequent news reports of excessive force or violence on the news, and ensuing riots”
I’m not aware of ANY of these “frequent” news reports of excessive force or violence against 3-year-olds asking for help finding mom or dad. Could you point some out?

“My point, which you seem to be missing, is that police have way more important things to do than to find your momentarily lost child.”
I disagree, and so, generally, do they. Seriously. Look up “community policing”.

” My children have been raised to fix their own problems whenever possible.”
Yeah. Mine too. What kind of trophy do we get for that?

” In the utopia which you describe, where there is so little crime that the police are jumpstarting cars”
It’s called “the suburbs”. We pay firemen to stand around not putting out fires, too.

“I might add, that you have been judged, and found lacking.”
Oh, noes!!!

“My kids know your sniveling troll type on sight,”
” I was pointing out the weakness of people that cannot look at me, or anyone else, with any discernment.”

MMM. More delicious irony.

“assuming you ever leave your mother’s basement.”
How clever and original. Your 7-year-old help you come up with that zinger?

that is assuming you ever leave your mother’s basement”

Dave, your posts are spot on. If anyone ever tried to kidnap my daughter I’d be terrified – for THEM! Remember “The Ransom of Red Chief”? Yeah, like that, except with extra biting and scratching.

If he has a beard, he must be feared!
Got a dick? Run away quick!
It’s a guy, don’t be shy. He’s a dude, it’s OK to be rude.

“This—and your continued refusal to actually provide evidence—demonstrates an unwillingness to honestly engage in conversation. You want to preach. Have at it—but after leaving the Catholic Church I have no interest in being preached to.”

I see. You actually DID intend for me to do something about the fact that you are white, and don’t get along with cops, and now you’re giving up? And now I’m also supposed to address your crisis of faith?

I think you’re right… I can’t help you with your problems.

Say, have you met this “Dave” fellow? It seems like you and him have a bit in common.

“I see. You actually DID intend for me to do something about the fact that you are white, and don’t get along with cops, and now you’re giving up? And now I’m also supposed to address your crisis of faith?”

No. You were supposed to address the questions of fact that I raised. The fact that you decided to come at me personally (ad homs all over the place) demonstrates an unwillingness to actually engage in conversation. The crack about religion was merely a joke; a bad one, granted, but a joke.

I have no confidence that anyone will ever convince you you are wrong about anything. That makes discussions with you a waste of time.

“No. You were supposed to address the questions of fact that I raised.”

After the third or fourth time doing so, the point of continuing to do so seems…

Jesus H. Christ

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2017/04/06/federal_judge_arizona_s_diaper_changing_child_molestation_law_is_unconstitutional.html?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark