If You Don’t Want Your Kid To End Up on a Sex Offender Registry…

I don’t think she’s placing any blame on the girls or their mothers. She’s saying that this can happen *in spite of* the girls and their mothers (or fathers).

Even if the parents are completely OK with their daughter’s relationship, the “crime” can be reported by anyone, and, depending on the circumstances, it can be prosecuted regardless of the parents’ feelings. In such a case, the girls and their mothers aren’t to blame; any more than the cheese in a mousetrap is to blame.

The real blame falls on the people who set the trap up in the first place: paranoid people who see everything in black and white; who aren’t willing to see shades of gray and apply critical thought. People who don’t recognize the difference between child-abuse and a 16 year old having sex with an 18 year old, and the politicians who want their votes.

It takes two, one a young lady seeking an older guy or someone in power (either a gold digger or for bragging rights) and a guy to give into the advances. As the letter states, the guy usually gets the short end of the deal.
I’ve seen firsthand some young women trying to see if they can attract an older guy. I worked in a nightclub in my 40’s and had many women in their 20’s (legal drinking age) only interested in one thing from me until they realized that I seldom dated anyone even of my own age. No need to get into the details of how they let their intentions be known. If they had the same attitudes 5 years earlier, for a guy to give in would be a criminal matter. An example is the big mess that happened a few years ago when a politician didn’t resist an intern. I heard reports that she was the one that flashed this powerful person with her thong underware before the incident.

Dr. Confused:

I’m a Norwegian who nurtures a long distance love of America. I love your country because of your founding fathers and the constitution that has served as an inspiration for the constitutions of all other western democracies, like the Norwegian of 1814. I love America for the idea that everyone is entitled to his or her liberty, the entrepreneurial spirit your country is founded on. I have only visited your country once, but as soon as our six month old son is a little older we will surely be back.

My love for the US makes me interested in what’s stirring over there, and because of that I follow American news and blogs quite keenly. Frankly, from time to time I get scared for the “adopted” country I love. The registration of sex offenders and “sex offenders” alike is one of the things that scares me. The total moral panic that has your lawmakers adopt the one Orwellian measure after the other is one of the most destructive forces that jeopardizes your liberties and has the rest of the western word shake their heads in disbelief.

I can not disagree more with your interpretation of the letter quoted in this blog post. I can not for my dear life see how it is a misogynistic attack on the girls in question or their mothers. Neither can I see how it can be seen as condoning neither rape nor older men taking advantage of younger, vulnerable girls. I interpret it as an attack on the same thing that scare the bejeezes out of me that is happening in the US right now: The criminalization of kids doing with other kids what kids always have been doing and always will be doing. When a 17 year old boy who has consentual sex with his 15 years old girlfriend is not a criminal, and he is not a rapist. He’s just a kid who explores one of the beautiful joys of life with the girlfriend he loves, a girlfriend that is of the same mental maturity as he, and who is not only able to consent but should also, more importantly, not be turned into a victim by overzealous bureaucrats, power hungry politicians eager to score cheap points, and parents scared by the fearmongering of the above mentioned through media that more than willingly clears their first pages for the next horror story.

Kids are arrested, prosecuted, sentenced and imprisoned for having sex with their girlfriends of about the same age. And not only are they imprisoned, when they get out their lives are ruined by being registered in the databases of sex offenders, having their lives and liberty destroyed for ever by all the regulations of how a registered sex offender can live his or her life. No one is served by the numerous miscarriages of justice that victimizes both the alleged perpetrators and the alleged victims. They are both traumatized and victimized for life for the sake of good intentions gone awry.

Marius,

I am still thinking about your comment and may respond in more length, but I found it interesting you assumed I am American. I am not, nor am I living in America. I ´m living in Europe.

What is the age of consent where you live, Dr. Confused? This may explain your confusion. The way we treat sex here is not exactly the norm, in my understanding, in Europe. Thus, you might have automatically read ‘young man’ as someone in his 20s, and young woman or girl as someone, say, about 13. But this is America, and we are talking about 17 year old girls with 19 year old guys. Sex here is, you know, horrifying, and dangerous, so much so that in some school districts (Texas comes to mind) teachers aren’t allowed to discuss sex at all, no sex ed, no answering direct questions from students outside of class, or risk loss of job. Sex is for marriage, and marriage should be delayed until the late 20s. Now to me, this seems about as unrealistic as one can possibly get. Don’t get married until you’re almost 30, and don’t have sex until you’re married. Extension of childhood gone horribly, horribly awry. Teens, as Marius noted, have been attracted to and sexual with one another for centuries. No legislation will stop them. But legislation can destroy their lives when someone takes offense.
Anyway, your response make waaaaaaaay more sense to me now that I know you’re not from America. I assumed that as well. Probably because it’s a blog written in America by an American about largely American issues. Often non-Americans will start a letter with, “Here in ____________ where I live…” which helps to clarify the different perspective the issue being viewed from.

I never thought about it before, but I could have been “that girl”. When I was 17 I briefly dated a guy who was 22. It’s hard to convince teenagers their hormones can destroy someone’s life, possibly their own, even if they do use protection.

It takes two, one a young lady seeking an older guy or someone in power (either a gold digger or for bragging rights) and a guy to give into the advances.

Whoa, what a load of crap! It’s not always some poor, innocent man being seduced by a conniving young whore. When I was a teenager, older men often hit on me. I never invited it, and I never wanted an older man. Yet they were often extremely persistent and wouldn’t take “no” for an answer. Sometimes it bordered on sexual harassment. The same thing happened to all my friends. I wasn’t a gold digger, and I didn’t want bragging rights. I actually thought it was disgusting and shameful to date a man that much older than me. Are you gonna blame me for being young and attractive, and forcing those men to “give in” and hit on me? Should I have worn a burqa so that they wouldn’t be tempted?

One of the problems I see with our (American) laws, and our society, in general, is that they’re confusing and contradictory as hell regarding what age is actually considered an “adult.” What makes a person an adult in our society? Is it the ability to pay taxes? Is it the ability to vote or join the military?

In restaurants, 10 or 12 is usually the cutoff for “kid’s meals,” when the restaurant has an age restriction.

You’re allowed to work certain (non-farm, non-hazardous), taxable jobs from age 14 (federal law), and can work more jobs for longer hours from 16. (Federal laws don’t require “working papers” from the teen’s school, but many states do have this requirement for anyone under 18. As one who was in college, on my own, for four months before I turned 18 and needed a job to pay rent while living in a state that required working papers for anyone under 18, this little gap in the system made getting a job in that time….interesting, to say the least.)

You can get your driver’s permit from as young as 15 (exact age varies by state), and your license at 16.

You can get into/buy an R rated movie or buy an M rated game at 17.

You can gamble, buy cigarettes, sign legally binding contracts, vote, and join the army at 18.

You can buy alcohol (and legally drink) at 21 (yep, you can pay taxes, and even die for your county long before you’re ever able to legally have some booze).

You’re considered an independent by default on things like college financial aid at 24 (prior to that, it requires several other qualifications, such as marriage, to be considered independent). Your car insurance rates are also likely to drop significantly after you turn 24.

That’s a 14 year range in which a person may or may not be considered an “adult,” or at least old enough to be “trusted” by society with certain responsibilities. To some extent, I don’t mind this sort of progressive advancement, but one of the things I find massively contradictory is that a 14 year old is mature enough in the eyes of the government to have a taxable job outside the home (and can even work FULL TIME during the summer), making them a TAX-PAYING MEMBER OF SOCIETY, yet from 14 until the day they turn 18, they’re considered not competent enough to make an informed decision about who they have consensual sex with. To make matters worse, some states even have legislation in place that anyone under 15 or so is automatically a “no fly zone” regarding sex for ANYONE, even a 16 year old. In those states, then, at 14 and 15, they are old enough to work, but are the ultimate jail bait.

What makes things even more fun is that high school graduates who are under the age of 18 are able to go to college and thereby live and work (if they can get a job) away from home, but yet are still considered “children” when it comes to whether or not they can consent to sex.

Dragonwolf: Add to that criminal responsibility.

A “child” under 18 can be sentenced to life in prison, and that has happened numerous times in the U.S. in the last few decades, and before there was a certain U.S. Supreme Court ruling, minors could even be sentenced to death and executed before their 18th birthday.

So you can pretty much be treated like an adult when you commit a crime, but apparently you’re still an incompetent child and unable to consent when it comes to exploring your sexuality as a teenager. Go figure.

I agree with the original letter, but I also agree with catgirl. So many men feel entitled to approach young girls (our ages aren’t stamped on our foreheads) and when I was young, the social conditioning made it very, very hard to say, “Buzz off, geezer.” As a young adult traveling alone, I had men grab teh airplane seat next to me and spend the whole flight trying to buy me drinks, basically using me as an unwilling distraction for the long flights. I finally wised up when I realized nothing short of behavior that would earn me the name “bitch” would discourage them. So I became a bitch, instead of “keeping sweet” and “respecting my elders.”

I hope that dynamic is changing — that girls feel better about saying, “leave me alone” and men don’t feel entitled to have their advances entertained politely.

Both men and women can be sexually inappropriate. The original letter does not imply inappropriate behavior on anyone’s part. The US is messed up regarding such things. I read about a case in which two 17 year old were having sex, but could not be prosecuted because they were both underage. Then they found that the couple had texted nude pictures of themselves to each other, and the wise state of Florida *prosecuted them for child pornography.* O_o

That’s whack.

Women, including young women, need to take responsibilitiy for their own choices.

This means decriminalizing consensual sex in adolescents and simultaneously providing sufficient education for them to make informed choices.

The contradiction, in American culture, in the messages we send and receive about sex, and our expectations for individual chastity are absurd and embarassing.

Non-consensual sex should be prosecuted, as should acts with youngsters (pre-teens). But, young men shouldn’t bear the brunt of punishment for consensual acts – in fact they should be perhaps chastised for making poor choices, but not punished at all.

While I don’t agree with the tone of the letter, I try to see the positive out of it.

I never had an interest in older men, I only dated teenagers my own age or a grade above. I always thought it was creepy when I became legal at 18 when older men above typical college age (18-23) approached me. What could we have in common?

Yes, young women not of age can be manipulative in relationships. One way it happens is dating older men. Young men need to be on alert and be responsible for their actions, which is to step away.

When young women start dating, it is so important to have independence. In a beginning of a potential relationship have an ’emergency exit’. When you are in a boy’s car or in a boy’s dorm room, a woman may not have control of the situation if things happen to go bad. Even if he’s offering the date, you drive. even if he wants to see you after class, let your roommates hang out with the both of you.

There’s a difference between prudish and prudent.

Does this get covered in sex ed?

Lihtox got it right. The sad fact is that, though women are still held up as innocent and pure, they can be just as, if not more, malicious and manipulative than any “older man”. Despite the fact that everyone on the face of the earth knows this (except for a select few morons, of course), men are overwhelmingly the ones who get punished for “sexual crimes”. Take a look at the difference in social stigma for teachers who screw their students.

Men: PEDOPHILE! PUT HIM IN JAIL NOW!
Women: What a lucky little brat that was.

This standard might be changing, but that won’t solve the problem, and this will still need to be addressed to boys until we rid ourselves of the registry entirely.

One of my long-time friends started dating her future-husband (wedding is in January 2011) when she was 16 and he was 21. I’ve known her for a while, a very sweet girl, and she really loves the guy. One irritated mother, however, and she could be looking forward to be marrying a sex offender (or losing her long-time boyfriend to prison).

I think the bigger question is how can we get out of this zero-tolerance law? Is it so broad (no pun intended) that it is useless EXEMPT to ruin people’s lives. Time to fire a letter off to various folks in power…

Dr. Confused,

You exhibit the exact black and white thinking mentioned in the article. Try this experiment: One day before his birthday, a 17 year old boy has sex with his 16 year old girlfriend. No crime.

One day passes. He’s now 18. They have sex again. What happens?

Arrest for statutory rape, jail time, registration as a convicted sex offender, affecting him for the rest of his life.

Is he a sex offender? No, he’s a normal teenager, bubbling with hormones.

The situation is unlikely to ever change. What politician will say “I’m standing up for the rights of convicted sex offenders to live freely in YOUR neighborhood”? Bashing sex crimes, even made-up ones, gets votes.

I have to confess: I was the victim of a sex crime.

When I was 17, a 26 year-old pursued me, and enticed me into having sexual relations. Obviously, this individual should be convicted, sent to jail, and be required to register as a sex offender for the rest of their life, with all the restrictions that go with that. Right?

Now let me give you the rest of the story–I am a male (which, for most folks who would have otherwise agreed with the above statement, changes it entirely, of course). And I was in the US Army at the time. And I never told her my age–she assumed I was older based on my looks, my demeanor, and the fact that I was a soldier. And, most important, it was entirely consensual.

Furthermore, it was known by a large number of government employees that this relationship was going on–I was in advanced training in the Army, and my Drill Instructors, Commanding Officer, and the other men in my company knew about it–because she would drive in to pick me up after final formation every day.

By the law, I was the victim of a sex crime at the same time the US Government considered me adult enough to hand me a rifle and tell me to shoot at foreigners.

There is definitely something wrong here.

@ Joe

I don’t think there is anything wrong with marrying your teenage love, if both are pretty much level headed. Being a teenager doesn’t have to be a reckless decade of experimentation. The reason why teens are so immature and infantile not to handle a sexual relationship, is maybe because we babied them too much. I understand financially it is impossible to be self-sufficient, with the need for post- high school education. But maybe we can change the trend.

——-
Could college campuses make it easier for undergraduates to be married? Rather then just passing condoms and the morning after pill for hooking up? Why should students be penalized for being married in some respects. For example it is great you can be on your parents healthcare up to the age of 26, while a student, you can’t if you happen to marry. Why are we inadvertently treating young adults (including teenagers) like kids. Everyone should buy it through the college, if you’re a student. Just like 18 year oldswho are not in school full-time have to be ‘an adult’ and get it themselves.

I know the idea of young adults having children bothers people, but it shouldn’t have to be. Biologically speaking if one is past puberty, then they should have access to the skills and support to be a stable family without threats of withholding traditional emotional/financial support from family and society.

Our educational system needs to be more open and transitional to true human development into maturity.

@Dr. Confused — please read the letter again. This isn’t about rape, and it isn’t about 25-year-olds seducing 12-year-olds. It’s about 18- or 19-year-old boys having consensual sex with 16- or 17-year-old girls. Whether or not you think that’s a good idea, or Morally Right, or whatever, I don’t see how you can read it as criminal behaviour. To do so is to infantilize young women who are perfectly capable of consenting (or not consenting) to sex, and to criminalize young men who may in fact be behaving very responsibly.

@Beth — I don’t doubt that you know women who had sex as teenagers and “experienced all kinds of emotional turmoil.” So did I. However, correlation does not equal causation, and the plural of “anecdote” is not “data.” And I know equally many women (myself included) who did not have sex as teenagers (well, okay, I had some sex as a teenager, but not until university when my husband and I started dating; I was almost 19) and nevertheless experienced depression, emotional turmoil, etc. The emotional turmoil of adolescence isn’t caused by having sex (or, for that matter, by not having sex); it’s caused by, well, being adolescent. It’s just an angsty age. I assure you that I could not possibly have experienced more emotional turmoil in connection with my Grade 11 boyfriend, for example, if we had been sleeping together. By contrast, one of my friends who was sleeping with her boyfriend that year (and with the same boyfriend the next year) was happier and more well-adjusted than I’d ever seen her before — and happier and more well-adjusted than I ever saw her in any later relationship until she met the guy who’s now her husband. I say all of this not in an attempt to counter your anecdotal evidence with my anecdotal evidence — that would be stupid — but simply to show that alternative explanations of that evidence are possible.

What my mom told me about sex, and what I intend to tell my daughter, is that when you decide to have sex with someone, you need to be sure you’re making that decision for the right reasons — because this is someone you like, someone you trust, someone you love, someone with whom you can be yourself, who respects you and whom you respect — and not for any of the many, many wrong reasons (including but not limited to peer pressure, having had too much to drink, fearing s/he won’t love you anymore if you don’t put out, just wanting to get it over with, and feeling like you’re the only one who hasn’t done it yet). That was good advice — and considerably more practical than “You must save yourself for marriage!” — and I’m glad I followed it.

I’m also glad I’m not currently an American teenager. (And, more to the point, that my husband isn’t: he’s 5 years older than me.) Yeesh.

To those who say they don’t like the “tone” of the letter —

What “tone” are you speaking of? I’m afraid I’m not seeing the same tone in the letter that you’re seeing.

Both my older sister and I had relationships with older males when we were underage, but with VERY different circumstances.

My sister was a 15 year old runaway who had sex with a 28 year old man. That man should be in prison, but he is not. He is daily making my sister’s life hell and ruining their children, the first of which she had when she was 16.

I, on the other hand, met my now husband when I was 14 and he was 17 and we were best friends. We started dating long distance when I was 16 and he was 19. We had sex when I was 17 which would have made him 20 and according to the government, a sex offender. Regardless of the fact that we loved and respected each other and were engaged to be married.

The law would have helped protect my sister, but it would have ruined me and the man I love. There just needs to be some common sense that goes with these laws.

I agree teens shouldn’t have sex. And I also think you should wait for marriage. But the fact is everyone makes their own choices and it is the parent’s job to make sure your kids make informed decisions. I completely plan on telling my kids to wait for marriage to have sex. But I also plan to have a “sex talk” with them, to go over safe sex.

I have a 30 year-old friend who “Just didn’t want to die a virgin,” so she slept with a buddy and got pregnant. Now she’s a struggling single mom because she didn’t have the common sense to get out a condom.

I completely plan on talking to my kids about this problem. If they have sex, they BETTER be using protection. They will know about STD’s, what happens when you get pregnant, all that stuff. They need to know the consequences of their choices.

It’s just sad that now my “Sex Talk” will have to include, “And if you have sex with someone older/younger than you, even if you love that person and they love you, they *could* go to jail. So WAIT!”

One other thing. I know a girl who just turned 16. She’s dating a 19 year-old, and she started asking me stuff like, “Is it ok for us to go on dates, if we have a note from my mom?” Her family knows this kid and loves him and they’re all trying to figure out a way that they can be seen in public without him being a sex offender.

Beth,

I think you made a very good point – when we say “they are just going to do it anyway”, we become part of the problem, infantilizing teenagers, treating them like imbeciles enslaved to their hormones instead of responsible young people capable of listening to good advice, utilizing self-control and making smart choices (even if they are not always choices we might agree with).

I say this even though my own history and attitudes to sex are likely very different from yours, and the things I will be telling my daughter about sex and appropriate ways to enjoy it may be different from what you will tell your children. It just so happens that even though I have never been very religious or conservative, I have spent a lot of time among religious, conservative people, and became very good friends with quite a few. So I know many young men and women who waited to have sex until they were in their twenties, usually on their first wedding night, as well as a few who had sex as young teenagers or even preteens. In general, I cannot say that people in the former group are emotionally healthier or happier in their sex life than the latter. They all have their problems, and many in both groups are struggling with the fact that, as adults, their beliefs and natural inclinations are in conflict with the values they internalized when they were teenagers.

What I do know is that, in spite of their lack of experience and the hormones wreaking havoc in their bodies and their brains, many teenagers have a strong moral compass, and are capable of making difficult choices. I also know, from observing my friends and their parents, that what you teach your children about sex (through conversations as well as your own example) can have a strong effect on when and how they become sexually active. The important thing is to respect them as individuals, not little copies of yourself, and know that it is your job to be there for them no matter what

D’oh! :facepalm:

*As girls progress from, say, Grade 4 through Grade 12, the ratio of sex? ewww!!! to wow, that guy/girl is super hot! gradually shifts from 98:2 at age 9 to more like 2:99 at age 17.

The problem is that no one wants to realize that here in America, we arrived as puritans… what does that mean? That somehow, down through the lines, we’ve kept this absurdist notion that sex is only natural if it’s done in wedlock (the age issue has come later). Nevermind looking at human history on the whole and finding out that long ago, there were girls of very dubious ages (sometimes as young as 12) being forced into marriages as women. Do you think their families told them that it was ok to be married but not have sex? Heck no. It was expected. Some countries STILL keep traditional coming of age ceremonies alive – India having some girls at 13 becoming women, Mexico having girls at 15 becoming women (quinceanera anyone?), and right here in the US of A, we have some Native tribes that girls are women at 13.

I had sex with my boyfriend, two years older than me, at 16. That means he was 18 and technically (by the idiotic laws in this country that do not bother to be partial to situations that OBVIOUSLY need it), a sex offender. I didn’t go through any depression outside of the one inflicted by my overly moralistic father – making me believe that the minute a penis touched me outside of wedlock I was a whore that was automatically going to sleep with any guy that asked me (and I’m not making it up). It took me years to figure out that my DAD was the idiot, not me. I am married to the man I had sex with all those years ago, and on the 30th, we’ll be celebrating our 10th wedding anniversary, and 16 years of being together. I loved him – that was all there was to that. He’s still my best friend and still the ONLY man I’ve ever slept with because I didn’t give in to all the other guys that wanted to get into bed with me… I was strong enough to say no… but I WANTED my boyfriend and when it came time – it wasn’t awkward, but was somehow right.

Had he ended up in jail for it, registered as a sex offender for life… we’d have been devastated. And that’s what this letter is all about. It’s not being nasty to girls, it’s letting guys (who are generally the ones letting their shlongs do the thinking), to really try to use their heads because America has gotten to the point of ridiculous with all its “zero tolerance” garbage. Yes, girls should know how to say no – and as a girl I remember having MANY older guys want to get with me yet I was a kid who was not afraid to say No and Get Lost… thank goodness – my daughter (one of the two children I had with my sex offending husband of 10 years) will know how to do the same.

Here in this country, we don’t look at sex as NATURAL. It is. Now, will I look to prosecute a man who is talking to my 15-year-old daughter and he’s 10 years older than her? If he doesn’t leave her alone until she’s 18, yep. Will I look to prosecute her 18-year-old boyfriend? No. They’ll BOTH get an earload from me, as will his parents regarding the risks of having sex… but I also hope that my daughter is never afraid to demand a condom or ask her mother to take her to the doctor for birth control.

I refuse to be like my father and so many people in America who believe that not talking about it is fine, threatening is fine, sex is unnatural outside of wedlock and before 18, and that you’re either a whore/golddigger – sex offender/pedophile if you have sex with a guy who happens to have turned legal age before you did.

Someone said it well here – girls don’t usually date guys their age because… my lord… they’re idiots! By nature they don’t mature the same rate and it shows. It’s nothing to do with girls wanting to gold dig… hell, they’ve got studies showing the natural tendencies across human history in all areas of the world for a girl to be with an older guy!

I’m sorry, this whole idea of my son being thrown in jail if he happens to be 18 sleeping with his younger girlfriend is very VERY upsetting to me. The idea of my daughter being labeled as a golddigging whore if she likes older guys is VERY upsetting to me. But what is the MOST upsetting to me is the absolute lack of common sense and willingness in this country to see the gray areas in which young people should fall.

P.S…. we all do realize that the HS Prom was invented in the ’50s to pair students up and encourage them to marry RIGHT OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL so they wouldn’t have premarital sex.

We still have prom, but we don’t generally condone kids getting married before say, 22, and even that’s a stretch.

I am 36 now, but I distinctly remember knowing quite a few girls in high school who purposely had sex with older guys, told everyone and then, if their parents found out, cried rape. They were alll whores in my opinion and each case needs to be looked at separtely. The sex crime laws are used willy nilly and truly do not apply to every instance.
BTW, I am female not male, so don’t think my comment has to do with hating women.

I don’t get why this is such a big deal. Parents of boys: Teach your sons to get proof of a girl’s age. Period. Know and teach your sons the age of consent and the particular laws in your state. Same thing for parents of girls — if they date younger boys.

Parents of girls: Teach your daughter that the 18 year-old boy (when she is 15) that she just loves soooo much (dripping with sarcasm) will serve jail time, so she needs to stop seeing him.

Parental consent should have NOTHING to do with this. I am involved in Juvenile Court cases where parents have consented to a range of inappropriate and criminal behavior. Doesn’t matter if the parent disagrees with the laws regarding education, age for drinking/smoking, etc. Guess what, a parent allowing a 15 or younger child to date an individual 18 or older will be found, in the Courts I’m familiar with, to have neglected their child and the child will likely be removed from their care — not to mention what will happen to the 18 year old.

Just because a parent is irresponsible enough to allow their child to act in a certain way doesn’t negate the seriousness of the act.

After quickly reviewing most state laws on this subject, 16 is the age of consent in the majority of states. At age 16, many states then have a minimum age for the offender to be. Haven’t seen any state where the 19 year old with the 17 year old will go to jail — but again, I only did a quick review.

I think the laws are appropriate and are in place to protect children (18 and under). But even if you don’t think they are, you should caution your children (not allow them to break the law) and call your state senator or state representative to have the laws changed.

I had a boyfriend from 14-20 — the same one — who was 5 years older than me. That means I was 14 and he was 19 when we first had sex.

He turned out to be a jerk, but that’s neither here nor there. Nobody pressured me, or persuaded me, or even hinted at me to do anything I didn’t want to do.

That situation is not abnormal. Any teen girl with a lick of sense is going ot have a hard time finding a boy her own age to relate to, because they mature so much more slowly than girls do. Who wants to have sex with somebody who’s still in love with fart jokes? Nobody that I knew.

Of course teens are going to have sex. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Sex is a wonderful thing.

America doesn’t have just a love-hate relationship with sex, but with kids. If you travel much, or live in another ocuntry for a while, you’ll see how unhealthy it is compared to the rest of the first world. (England is the only place it is worse. Anti-teenager sounds indeed.)

Turns out, our country isn’t first or best in anything — not freedom, not democracy, not quality of living, not freedom of movement, not education, and certainly not healthcare.

The US isn’t first in anything — except the rate of imprisonment.

In 20-30 years, the rest of the world will (rightly) look at the whole US the way we currently look at the country folk who live their whole lives in Appalachia. Yes, the US will be considered a country of hillbillies. Sickly, imprisoned hillbillies, with guns, preoccupied with nothing but their old family feuds.

@ Mike Ruff
Sorry, but I don’t see you as a crime victim. A 17 YO, male or female, who responds positively to the advances of a 26 YO, male or female, is not a “victim,” unless there was force involved, or you were drugged, or the pursuer was someone is a position of authority over you. From what you stated it doesn’t seem any of those circumstances applied in your case.

My best friend from HS was dating a freshman boy when we were seniors. She got pregnant when she was 19 and he was 15. My brother started dating the woman who is now his wife when she was 16 and he was 23. I don’t see either my brother or my friend as rapists or predators, and I don’t see their spouses as victims.

Obviously, some people would.

I agree that this is far from a perfect letter.

But those up in arms about the way it “blame[s] the girls for the actions of … criminals” might be interested in a couple of recent US cases — you can read about them (e.g.) here: http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/04/07/sexting.busts/index.html.

In the case described, a young couple had been dating for 2 & 1/2 years, or since he was 16 and she was 14, when, after a fight, he (now age 18) sent out a nude photo of her (age 16) (a photo which she had provided to him of her own initiative, as far as I can tell) was convicted of distributing child pornography, and will for life (under current law) be registered as a sex offender. Now I’m not impressed by his behavior (or hers), but neither would I liken it to rape.

(In another case mentioned, a 15-year old girl is being charged, having circulated photos of herself wearing a training bra when she was 12. The only man who might be taking advantage of the girl involved in that case is the DA who is charging her.)

I’ll have to keep this editorial until my son is old enough to date. Thanks!

I can’t subscribe to this post. Any ideas why? This has never happened before.

@soiazabel: Prosecutors have discretion and can choose not to prosecute any crime they want. Of course prosecutors are elected officials. The second voters hear that “sex criminals” are not being prosecuted in their city, they will probably demand to have the prosecutor impeached and will certainly vote said prosecutor out in the next election. And any opponent running against the incumbant prosecutor will bring this up every chance he or she gets and will manipulate the facts to suit his or her chances of of being elected. So, no, a prosecutor who actually wants to keep prosecuting cannot choose to not prosecute stat rape cases.

I totally agree that by criminalizing situations of mutual consent we are grossly exaggerating the concept of the sexual offender. When I’ve looked at the sexual offender list (usually because someone emailed me the link with all cap letters imploring me to check and see how many dangerous criminals live frighteningly close to me) I’ve noticed that the majority of them say statutory rape.

I am curious, though. Do people have an opinion on what should be an age of consent? I think most would agree that someone in their 20’s having sexual relations with a 12 year old is criminal, but where is that line where it becomes just two young people exploring love? 14? 15? 16? Is the age spread really the important issue? If a 16 year old has the ability to consent to an 18 year old through a years span rule why would it suddenly be not ok if the young man were 20?

My daughter has been attending community college classes since she was 15 and has been socializing as a high schooler with many teens in the 18-20 year range. I can’t say I didn’t caution her that I would consider the age span a bit broad if she had chosen to date one of her classmates, but criminal, no.

“in their 20’s having sexual relations with a 12 year old is criminal, but where is that line where it becomes just two young people exploring love? 14? 15? 16?”

I do think taking the age difference (in years) into account between a minor and an adult is one of the crucial factors. There is no magical formula, of course, and thus statutory rape, like other cases of rape, should be decided on a case by case basis, by a jury of ones peers. Prosecutors should have to prove that some element of coercion, fear, or seduction was used, or that the minor was not capable of informed consent. If there isn’t an automatic violation of law accoridng to age, prosecutors would only bother to prosecute those statutory rape cases that involved some questionable element.

I do think there is some value in a bright line at the younger end. I understand the puberty thing from a perpetrator = pedophile perspective. But from a victim perspective the differences in maturity that make someone able to comprehend the scope of the decisions they are making and the experience to make those judgments well do not automatically come along with the physical changes.

I favor the age gap approach in general. Large age gaps significantly increase the chance that the younger person can be “duped”. When teens sleep around with their peers they can still get badly hurt, pregnant or catch STIs, but they are at least more likely to be playing on an even field with rules they are as much a creator of as their peers.

Because of the difficulties in prosecuting non-consensual rape I am reluctant to agree that removing the extra protection that statutory rape laws provide younger people is a good idea on balance. I think we would see a significant increase in predatory behavior on the part of a small section of society.

One of the problems is that statutory rape is a charge that covers a very broad range of actions. From fairly dumb but not disastrous decision making to really heinous stuff. And because of the sex offender registration it isn’t possible for a judge to give an appropriate sentence at the lesser end of the scale. Removal of discretion (or abdication/abuse of it in the case of DAs charging) is what leads to such poor outcomes at the moment.

@ Helen – I agree that many teens who have reached physical puberty may have not the mental development to make great choices. However, the “victim” made the choice, good or bad, to have sex. The boy should not go to prison for that girl’s bad decision. In most stat rape cases, the boy was about as mentally mature as the girl (boys maturing several years after girls).

@Clio – In many states, there must be more than a 3 year difference for felony stat rape. Many states have misd stat rape for less than 3 year difference – referred to as Romeo and Juliet laws. Most would think that a misd is not a big deal but try to get a job with any stat rape on your criminal history.

Bright line tests don’t take into account that some young girls are very mature and some are very immature. At 13, I could make reasonable decisions as to sex but some of my peers couldn’t. Many of those same peers were no better suited emotionally to make that decision at 16. No magic wealth of knowledge enters your brain on your 16th birthday to suddenly make you able to make good decisions. If it did, we would let 16 year-olds vote, reside on their own, join the military, drive (some states yes, some states no), drink and the plethora of other things we don’t let 16 year olds do. Further, I really don’t see how maturity can be determined based on the state that you live in. I don’t think Georgia girls are more mature such that they can consent to sex 2 years earlier than kids in New York. So if my 16 year old has sex with her overage boyfriend in Georgia, no crime. But if they go on a class trip to NYC and have sex, she’s suddenly a victim and he goes to prison?

It also discounts the balance of power between the parties. We had a highly publicized case of a 16-year-old high school student having sex with her 30-year-old teacher. 16 is the age of consent so no crime was committed but that is clearly more wrong than a 15 year-old having sex with her 18 year-old boyfriend by most people’s estimation. But we have bright line rules so no criminal prosecution.

One only has to look at the cases where adult women are involved with underage males to see the blaring double standard.

I am not advocating relations with underage people but I have noticed that if a 14 yo girl grabs a gun and knocks over a liquor store she is suddenly magically transformed into an adult in the eyes of the law.

If this same girl decided to have sex with a 16 yo boy she is the “innocent victim” of this evil sex offenders desires and the boy is placed on the fast track to the registry.

As our “nanny state” grows further and further away from personal responsibility and our countrymen hand over more and more freedom in the name of security these INSANE cases will keep happening.

All thru our history as a species this same formula is repeated over and over. Add a label or name to a person or group and it is perfectly alright to commit any act or injustice against them regardless of how ridiculous and outrageous the circumstances.

Just listen to any politician or read some of the other blog entries and see how easily people will surrender Constitutional and human rights to punish the “Monsters”.

I have researched these registries and have been unable to find one single case that suggests the registry has actually prevented a crime all I seem to find is “voo doo” claims about how wonderful it all is and how children are safer.

Was Jaycee Lee Dugard saved by the registry? Here was someone under the strictest supervision and he keeps a slave in his yard?

Some states are changing the laws to comply with the federal Adam Walsh Act which removes all risk based assessment and places people into tier’s based solely on the crime committed.

Soon the Jaycee rapist will appear on the same tier as the 17 yo that had a 15 yo girlfriend.

As i said soon everyone will personally know someone on this registry and when that happens maybe Anger and Ignorance will give way to common sense.

Good morning
It’s nice to visit for the first time to your site. Introduce me from Indonesia.
if you do not mind so good as a visit behind
Happy Nice day….
Thanks…

@Mandi
You say in any other state but the one you live in, your sexual relationship would be statutory rape- a relationship between an 18 or 19 YO and a 17 YO. That can’t be right. In 39 out of 50 US states, the age of consent is 17 or younger- meaning a 17 YO in those states can consent to sex with a partner of any age. In the other states, the age of consent is 18, but the law in many cases only applies to cases where a certain age gap exists.

There definitely need to be “Romeo and Juliet” clauses. Prosecutors also must not loose perspective when choosing what cases to prosecute.

On the same hand, it is incredibly difficult to prosecute rape cases, period. With teen survivors statutory rape charges are often plea deals- there just wasn’t enough evidence to prosecute a more serious charge. Statutory rape just requires DNA evidence (or video, etc) since the victim cannot consent. More traditional definitions of rape require a heavier burden of proof, and it is rare to have a rape conviction unless another crime (assault, kidnapping, robbery, etc) was committed during the act of rape. He said, she said is what it usually boils down to.

Donna – seems we’re mainly in agreement. I don’t agree with the current penalties and I think they make the current laws unethical in some instances.

In my ideal system I would keep bright line laws and get rid of the sex offender registry and improve the use of discretion. Which may be a bit different from your ideal – but neither of us agree with the scenario painted in the original letter.

One note on regional use of ritalin. We were living in Wappingers Falls (near Poughkeepsie), NY. We received many complaints about our son, Mark from his school. They said he was disruptive in class, constantly interrupting the teacher to ask questions and was generally intolerable.

We took him to a psychologist who prescribed ritalin for him. He calmed down in class and the complaints stopped.

Then we transferred to a little town (Plainview) in Minnesota. During the busy time of resettling in a big old farm house, we forgot to refill his prescription. Sure enough we got a call from his teacher the next day. She asked what happened to Mark. The day before (without ridalin) he was really sharp, intelligent, inquisitive and leading class discussions. She said he was so changed and such a delightful student.

So, the moral of the story appears to be that some “teachers” don’t like to bother participating with the students. Would rather the students just shut up and sit there. While other real dedicated teachers are eager to work with their students and have them fully involved.

@Cathrine: It’s simple, North America was settled by puritans. 🙂