It definitely adds to the “Eek! A man!” culture I personally have been a victim of, having had my hours cut tutoring because mothers were afraid of having a male tutor their 5- and 6-year-olds in an open room with 6 other tables. — Matthew
It sure feels like we are not only demonizing men, we are becoming afraid of the very fact they exist and aren’t women or kids. Simply by being male they pose a threat to all innocent beings on the planet. Weirdly, I’ve taken three decades’ worth of cab rides in New York City, and it never occurred to me to be scared simply because the driver was male.
Remember, the other name I’d give Free-Range is the “Benefit of the Doubt Movement.”
But of course there’s a lot more money and opportunity in “Divide and Distrust.” – L
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60 Comments
Welcome to purdah.
Will be interesting to see how the sides line up for the lawsuits.
Rape has gone down by half in the last two decades. Violent crime is also down.
Why are we moving into Victorian Era attitudes about men and women?
Why are we treating all boys like potential (and likely) predators?
On a recent radio show on the subject of the new taxi industry, the guests basically agreed that this service is neither legal nor likely to succeed.
Kill all men. Murder every single one of them at birth. Seems the simpler way.
“Kill all men. Murder every single one of them at birth. Seems the simpler way.”
This WOULD end all human suffering. Eventually.
When I dropped my daughter off at the Red Cross babysitting and first aid class, another mom expressed concern that the instructor was a man. She hoped they at least made sure he left the classroom door open during instruction. I was dumbfounded.
“There will also be a “safe word” sent to the potential passenger.”
“The app’s functions were designed to make women feel as safe as possible.”
I’m a woman, and I look for GOOD DRIVERS to feel as safe as possible. Their sex is irrelevant.
One that uses a *safe word* isn’t going to cut it for me. My word is *no moving violations*.
OT- but if they only want female drivers, maybe one of these moms could be driver for Chariot??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKCw-kqo3cs
” She hoped they at least made sure he left the classroom door open during instruction. ”
If this was one on one or two teaching that would be sensible protocol, at least.
But did she think he was going to rape a whole room full of kids?
“Kill all men. Murder every single one of them at birth. Seems the simpler way.”
A better idea: Kill all boys on their thirteenth birthday, and harvest their sperm.
Can you imagine the uproar if a company wanted to offer a guys-only car service? That’s sexist! That’s discrimination! It’s illegal to deny service based on gender!
If you’re that scared buy your own damn car and don’t drink.
Don’t see how this will stand the test of law. Since men only clubs have been forced to accept women or close their doors.
This is typical of many women’s organizations. They want it both ways. Don’t say we can’t but we can say you can’t.
I heard of this on tumblr. Honestly, its stupid.
What about mothers that need to travel with their adult, developmentally delayed male children?
I have no idea how parents prepare their sons for a world in which they are suspected of the desire to commit heinous crimes due merely to their gender.
Yeah, probably illegal. It will be interesting to watch the court challenges. I wrote this earlier: http://www.inc.com/suzanne-lucas/why-women-only-chariot-should-crash.html
Geez, how ridiculous! Sexist though it may be, I prefer getting rides with male taxi drivers – for some reason, they always seem a bit more talkative and you have interesting conversations. Though that could be because most of them are recent immigrants, I guess, so they have something interesting to talk about, whereas the few female drivers tend to be Kiwis.
So I don’t know why you’d worry about a male Uber driver….they wouldn’t last long in the business if they kept attacking their customers, after all.
They are basically trying to profit off of fear. They take some factual data (men are far more likely to commit violent crimes) and couple that some scary stories and rely on people not really understanding risk and statistics.
This is sad, but I would prefer a market based solution, as opposed to asking the gov’t to step in and force a business to operate a certain way.
I have a very libertarian attitude toward business. Let individuals choose to discriminate based on their personal beliefs or what they think is in their best business interest. If Hooters wants to only hire buxom beauties so be it, no one ‘has’ to work there or eat there. While I think this ‘female’ friendly car service is absurd it might appeal to some folks. They may or may not be successful, most new businesses fail in short order. The real power of services like Uber is that you get to read the ratings of the drivers and can choose to ride with that person or not. The driver’s plumbing is irrelevant to their aptitude for being a good driver.
But, just think what would happen if someone came out with a ‘male’ only taxi service, or ‘straight only’ taxi service. You would have every left leaning groups of professional victims bitching and moaning and decrying how backward the idea was. But a female only service is OK, I suspect that a service that advertised as ‘LGBT’ friendly would also be OK.
Chariot will drop the female only structure once fully up and running; this is just a publicity grab. They will pivot to pointing out their background checks are “state of the art” or “highest in the industry” or some such.
I just don’t see how this will pass muster in court.
” just think what would happen if someone came out with a ‘male’ only taxi service, or ‘straight only’ taxi service. ”
I’m waiting for monkey-driven Uber rides with loose kittens in the cabin.
Wasn’t there an Uber service that delivered puppies for an hour? I’d sign up for that.
It takes all kinds in this world.
“I have no idea how parents prepare their sons for a world in which they are suspected of the desire to commit heinous crimes due merely to their gender.”
As a mother of two teenaged boys, it’s horrifying. They are naturally considered predators just because of their sex. Want to get a summer job babysitting or teaching swim classes? You are male, you are suspect. Dating, you are male, you are suspect. College is another, where every male is considered a dangerous rapist just waiting to be unleashed. God forbid you try to kiss a girl, that’s sexual assault and could get you expelled.
“But, just think what would happen if someone came out with a ‘male’ only taxi service, or ‘straight only’ taxi service. You would have every left leaning groups of professional victims bitching and moaning and decrying how backward the idea was. But a female only service is OK, I suspect that a service that advertised as ‘LGBT’ friendly would also be OK.”
Yes, you have that right.
Men and women are equally creepy .
Intriguing….that human society of the highest order may perhaps one day evolve to resemble the social constructs developed by orcas. (highly matriarchal and successfully so.)
But unless we are prepared to put on even more whale-ish weight and take to the seas….I think we need a better plan.
Males do indeed, have a lot of clout in this sorry world. Excommunicating them from the society of women and children is a dangerous plan.
For after all, in actual fact, it is women and children who civilize males. The evidence is clear.
(One need only to tour a large university’s Frat society to emphasize this point.)
Ah….to be an aged male simply pickled in the process of having become civilized (in the above-stated manner)
causes no end of fun and enjoyment.
But then….I learned at a tender young age to define my own damned gender. And would caution usurpers and pretenders accordingly.
Men: can’t live with ’em….and couldn’t possibly run this crazy world without ’em.
(But could it be run better, if women had a more egalitarian degree of options to join in the fray?)
Absolutely.
It is a generally accepted historical fact that women and children left the sinking Titanic first…. (even if most of them happened to be First Class.)
But it was male pride and vanity that sank the damned thing.
Another one of history’s learning curves.
Methinks yon uber rider doth protest too much.
“Yeah, probably illegal. It will be interesting to watch the court challenges.”
Unless they’re building this entirely without resort to legal professionals, it’s probably structured in a legal way.
It’s not legal for businesses open to the public to discriminate based on gender (or race, religion, or national origin, and in some states, sexual identity), it is legal for clubs that restrict membership to use pretty much whichever restrictions they’d like, including the ones prohibited by the Civil Rights Act of 1964. See, for example, “Curves” health clubs.
So, as long as their legal advisors have structured the system to avoid looking too much like a business that’s open to the general public, the legal challenge you’re looking for will probably fail.
I think they’ll fail not because of legal challenge, but because their potential market is too small, and the costs of serving it are too high.
“For after all, in actual fact, it is women and children who civilize males. The evidence is clear.
(One need only to tour a large university’s Frat society to emphasize this point.)”
Or tour a sorority and see nearly identical behavior.
The attitude men are a bunch of animals needing civilizing is the problem.
Under similar circumstances, men and women behave remarkably similarly.
Oh, yippee. Another unregulated service that will leave more cars cruising the NY streets waiting for fares but only available to take 50 percent or fewer of the possible business. We already have Uber drivers parking in the bike lanes (I’m a cyclist.) and driving around empty. Like the over-buliding that’s happening in Manhattan, no one is thinking about the impact on the infrastructure.
But Uber is smart. I’ll guess within three months you’ll be able to check if you want a female driver. That is, if you’re female. I actually had female Uber drivers in Portland and SFO, btw.
All of that is separate from the fact that every male only wants to abuse and attack women 24/7. /snark
But this seems like a bad idea from the jump(start).
This is ridiculous, but is anyone really surprised? I constantly hear people talking about how black people are more likely to commit a crime than white people, conveniently omitting that MEN are way more likely than WOMEN (as compared to black vs white) to commit a violent crime. So if this country is comfortable demonizing black people because a very small percentage of them commit violent crime, why is it surprising when it starts to demonize men given that a larger percentage of them do the same thing?
This country runs on fear. If you are a frequent visitor to this site you know this. Look at what we are currently being told to fear and there are all the clues we need to see what’s coming next.
If we sit and do nothing while other groups are unfairly demonized, we can’t really pick up the banner all of the sudden when it happens to us.
Lawda mercy! Don’t sheeple know that there are women murderers, rapists, and kidnappers as well? Plenty of them in prison. Can’t fear one gender without fearing the other. The simple fact that we are all human beings, capable of terrible of things. Gender doesn’t change that one bit. History has proven it time and time again.
These “women and children only”. That’s fooling themselves that they will be “safer”. No different than all the other over the top “tips” and “gadgets” to keep your kids “safe”. It’s all a scam. Mostly people scamming themselves to believe something that is rare, happens ALL the time. lol
Are we talking gender at time of birth or by the gender the drivers and passengers identify with?
Have these people never taken a cab?
And drunk men? If that were as huge a problem as they suggest women would never be bartenders, but we know that’s not the case!
“Are we talking gender at time of birth or by the gender the drivers and passengers identify with?”
And what about lesbians? If it’s all women for women, won’t there still be the risk of same sex advances?
So, as long as their legal advisors have structured the system to avoid looking too much like a business that’s open to the general public, the legal challenge you’re looking for will probably fail.
Have any of the articles indicated they had lawyers give this enterprise the green light? I wouldn’t assume that, as most businesses don’t want to pay for legal advice.
“I wouldn’t assume that, as most businesses don’t want to pay for legal advice.”
Nobody WANTS to pay, but most recognize the importance. I’m assuming a corporate form for the business, which requires a lawyer in all but the simplest of incorporations. (If you do it wrong, you lose the main benefit of incorporation.)
Startup capital for the company is coming from a single angel investor. This means that the lawyer drafting all the formation documents may be somebody’s personal lawyer rather than someone who specializes in business law… but the proper legal strategy is pretty straightforward.
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“Are we talking gender at time of birth or by the gender the drivers and passengers identify with?”
Trans women are welcome, according to the coverage in Fortune, which is no surprise, because the service is launching in Boston.
Hmm… If this proves to be legal, and businesses are now free to offer services targeted toward specific genders, how much longer do you think it’ll be before Boober arrives on the scene to provide scantily-clad women to drive you around town?
>>Hmm… If this proves to be legal, and businesses are now free to offer services targeted toward specific genders, how much longer do you think it’ll be before Boober arrives on the scene to provide scantily-clad women to drive you around town?<<
@TeacherJR–I don't think that that's going to happen, because a car isn't a private place, and indecent exposure is still illegal. So, I really don't see Boober gaining much traction. Anyway, as for Uber versus Chariot, if either one, or both, of those services existed here, I'd probably use them when the bus service isn't running, since I have a driver's license but can't afford a car. I probably wouldn't have a preference either way, because I've taken buses, taxis, planes, informal rides home from various places, et cetera, with people of either genders, and never once gotten sexually assaulted as a result of that. I did have one close call, one time, with a guy I met at a bar (which, ironically, happened out in the open in a sort of patio area), but I don't see that as a reason to live my entire life in fear.
“I don’t think that that’s going to happen, because a car isn’t a private place, and indecent exposure is still illegal.”
So, I really don’t see Boober gaining much traction.”scantily-clad” and “indecent” are two different things.
Portland, OR has a civic festival in June, to which several maritime agencies, including but not limited to the US Navy, send ships. The local nudie bars send shuttle buses to the area where the ships dock and offer free (with military ID) rides to the nudie bars. Of course, each club has to convince the sailors that THEIRS is the nudie bar where the descerning serviceman should spend their hard-earned pay. The entertainers remain sufficiently clothed to avoid running afoul of indecent exposure laws (Rose Festival is fun for the whole family, after all.) but nobody’s going to refer to their state as “fully clothed”, either.
I see a few challenges in expanding this service. For example, in large parts of this country, it gets cold in the winter.
Some really heated reactions to a private business opening. This is so very different than a guy getting harassed or arrested for driving a white van or hanging at a park. Nobody has top use this service. You can see if as the direction we are heading, or just another opportunity for those who feel more comfortable with a female driver. There is no such thing as reverse sexism, so no this is not sexist. And those bringing up the “straight male only” theory – that’s called most businesses. There is a service for transvestites and transgender and gay people, because in SF they were getting routinely harassed or ignored, and could not get a ride. So someone started a service, and the recipients were grateful. It was not a money-making business, born out of dire necessity. http://www.sfweekly.com/exhibitionist/2012/06/21/homobiles-possibly-the-best-sf-ride-service-ever
“There is no such thing as reverse sexism, so no this is not sexist.”
There is in fact no such thing as reverse sexism, there’s just “sexist” and “not sexist”.
This is sexist. You may consider it a benign sexism (I do), but how does someone see a service that denies or provides service based on the sex of the potential customer as “not sexist”?
>>I see a few challenges in expanding this service. For example, in large parts of this country, it gets cold in the winter.<<
@James–I was thinking that too. Any extra money that Boober might make for their drivers being scantily-clad, would be quickly eaten up by the extra gas it'd take (and extra money it'd cost) to keep the heat on high enough so that the Boober drivers wouldn't freeze in the winter, if this service existed in Canada, or in certain colder parts of the States.
Or there’s “if you prefer a woman driver, that’s your business, not mine,” vs. “I feel victimized by all these people screaming about equality, so I’m going to throw a fit over something I really don’t care about and which doesn’t affect me in any way.”
>And those bringing up the “straight male only” theory — that’s called most businesses.
It is? Let’s see. Lots of businesses are banks. Is it true that banks will only open accounts for straight males? Then there are big box stores – only open to straight males? Insurance? Certainly not bakeries and pizza stores, they get put out of business for what they won’t write on cakes and for making hypothetical statements about bizarre scenarios (who caters a wedding with pizza, anyway?) Colleges seem to admit a lot of women. Gyms? Well, I don’t know too many male-only gyms, and no straight only gyms, but Curves seems pretty popular.
Yet here we have the claim, made in what appears to be this universe, that most businesses do not serve anyone other than straight males.
With physical exercise, you sweat and breath hard. In other words, you feel uncomfortable. Failure to do this results in loss of fitness. Walking stairs or a distance of 200 ft will eventually become an uncomfortable experience. Hence the downward spiral can begin. You may start to avoid stairs or walking and reduce your fitness even further.
The above paragraph is well known. In fact it feels like I’m patronizing or insulting people by spelling out something so obvious.
The brain is similar to a muscle. avoid anything emotionally uncomfortable can start a downward spiral as well. The results range anywhere from mild to becoming an emotional candy ass. Perhaps you prefer a woman taxi driver because you feel mildly uncomfortable at having a male driver. Keep avoiding any uncomfortable feeling no matter how slight and see where it gets you. Even better, why not teach your children to have the same attitude?
“Will be interesting to see how the sides line up for the lawsuits.”
Anything “for the children” is automatically inviolate. So is anything that “protects the vulnerable” (as long as the vulnerable as women, children, or non-white minorities of course).
So the lawsuit would never even go to trial.
“This WOULD end all human suffering. Eventually.”
Pretty quickly too. Most of the jobs the women making such “rules” claim they want to do they actually don’t.
The dangerous ones, the dirty ones, the ones requiring physically strenous labour.
Things like farming, maintaining the electricity network, running coal mines and oil wells.
After the last man dies, and even before that as men would be instantly disinclined to do the dirty work for their executioners, all the infrastructure that gives these flowers the luxuries and the very basics of life they depend on and take for granted will disappear and they’d die within weeks.
And good riddance.
” I constantly hear people talking about how black people are more likely to commit a crime than white people, ”
Which is truth at least. A far higher percentage of blacks as compared to whites are involved in criminal enterprises.
The reasons for this are many, but that doesn’t change the facts.
But try to create a taxi service that guarantees a white driver and you’re in over your head on the discrimination lawsuits (and rightly so), while this one (or one that guarantees a black driver) is all fine and legal…
“Curves seems pretty popular”
Actually Curves business has declined dramatically. There are currently only a little over 1,100 gyms in the US. 10 years prior there were 7,850.
I live in a very car-centric area. Almost everyone outside the ‘hood has a car. Uber is used predominantly by people going out drinking. We’ve had several drunk coeds raped by taxi drivers (whether it was one or multiple taxi drivers is unknown since the coeds were extremely drunk and lacked the ability to give reliable descriptions) in recent years so I can definitely see an interest in this service, especially in areas where cabs and Uber are largely used in situations where the female clientele are in a very vulnerable situation caused by their own intoxication. If I needed a lift in situations like earlier this week when I needed a ride to the mechanic to pick up my car, I don’t care who the driver is. If I am falling down drunk, I would probably choose Chariot over Uber if it was available. It is not that I think that all male Uber drivers are potential rapists, but acknowledge that if mine happened to be so inclined, a drunk me is (a) more likely to be chosen as a target, (b) far less able to fight back, and (c) largely incompetent as a witness should it happen. Now I tend to be beyond the going out and getting falling down drunk phase of my life, but my town is occupied 9 months of the year by 35,000 college students, more than half of which are females and many of them do that every weekend.
The 13 year old male cut off I don’t understand though.
“The 13 year old male cut off I don’t understand though.”
Taxi driver is a very hazardous occupation. Since their job involves driving the customer where the customer wants to go, sometimes it turns out that the customer wants to go someplace secluded enough to rob the taxi driver.
Since the predator minority knows that a Chariot driver will be a woman, they might’ve chosen Chariot as a means of finding potential victims. Since the DANGEROUS predator category (with regards to adult women) is adult males, that’s who they need to exclude. The 14-17 market segement is caught in the wash. Probably not dangerous if accompanying mom, but…
The university usually has a ride-sharing service for intoxicated coeds; back in my first university days it was offered free. Then again, as depicted in “Veronica Mars”, season 3, that’s the service to infiltrate if you enjoy raping.
@Donna
“We’ve had several drunk coeds raped by taxi drivers (whether it was one or multiple taxi drivers is unknown since the coeds were extremely drunk and lacked the ability to give reliable descriptions)”
I would think that the “partying” sort would travel in groups, especially females. Are these taxi drivers overpowering several victims at one time or do they really travel alone?
BL – It has been solo coeds. While, yes, college students tend to drink in groups, the group often doesn’t all leave together in the same mode of transportatiom. Some may want to pack it in earlier than others. They may live in totally different places making one Uber bothersome. Back in my college days, I only left the party with another person if I was there with my roommate or boyfriend.
At the local university, pretty much only freshman live in dorms (which are walkable/campus busable from downtown). Everyone else lives in apartments and houses spread throughout town. It would be very possible to have a single group of friends all live in very different areas of town such that riding in one Uber would be ridiculous. And someone would be last regardless.
I simply resent this policy on behalf of my beautiful sons and their teen friends. They need to know they have the power to strive for the highest principles, to love, work, cooperate, build, dream, create, be respected and that we trust them to make good choices.
Telling them they are considered a threat at 13 is just wrong. Feels like a return to Jim Crow.
There will always be criminals and they can be prosecuted if they act. Presume innocence. The society we live in is essentially based on trust, or we could never walk out our door.
>Actually Curves business has declined dramatically. There are currently only a little over 1,100 gyms in the US. >10 years prior there were 7,850.
I stand corrected. I still doubt that most businesses refuse to serve anyone other than straight males.
I agree that the 13 yr old cutoff is odd and problematic – but I had a friend who was raped by her uber driver and uber did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO TAKE HIM OUT OF DRIVING. So myself, my daughters, my female friends will absolutely not take an uber alone. I am grateful that this may now be an option for us. Yes it is likely a rare occurrence, but since it is clearly underreported and not dealt with by Uber I cannot make that assessment with any sort of certainty and the cost is too great if we misjudge.
“I would think that the “partying” sort would travel in groups, especially females. Are these taxi drivers overpowering several victims at one time or do they really travel alone?”
Drinking parties may have multiple drop offs and often give their home address and phone number to the driving service. My older sister used Uber for St. Patricks Day last year with a few of her coworkers. She was dropped off at the friend’s house at the end of the night but the Uber driver had her phone number and sent her several booty call texts/and messages at late hours. She told him to stop and he did. She did report it and wrote an online review of this driver but I believe he is still driving.
Several people mentioned the Curves gym as being a version of this that has been allowed. There actually have been some lawsuits against Curves where they were told to allow male members or employees. http://fitnessmarketing.com/2011/04/are-women-only-gyms-guilty-of-discrimination/
“There actually have been some lawsuits against Curves where they were told to allow male members or employees. http://fitnessmarketing.com/2011/04/are-women-only-gyms-guilty-of-discrimination/”
If you go back and read this link again, you’ll find that it doesn’t offer any examples of a Curves gym being sued successfully.
To @puzzled, while yes it’s true that businesses do not refuse to service those other than straight males, there are numerous examples of businesses biased against women – stockbrokers and mortgage lenders asking to talk with a husband, mechanics deferring to the man. I wholeheartedly agree with that most of the fear-based crap that is called out on this site is BS, but sexism (and just like racism, it does not apply to all sexes no matter what one thinks) and sexual assault targeting mostly women, does still exist. Very unreasonable fear of men also exists, but that does not mean we have to protest every small instance. I too have teenage sons, but would never assume that a woman-only gym, exercise class or ride-share business is targeting them. In fact they notice a lot more sexism in their daily lives than experience the backlash of being young men.
Once known as apartheid and justified on exactly the same bases. Boys and men are the modern world’s niggers.
>To @puzzled, while yes it’s true that businesses do not refuse to service those other than straight males, there >are numerous examples of businesses biased against women
And that is a reasonable, measured claim. Nothing at all like:
>And those bringing up the “straight male only” theory — that’s called most businesses.
See, if it is true that businesses do not refuse to service those other than straight males, then no, “straight males only” is not called most businesses.
“Once known as apartheid and justified on exactly the same bases. Boys and men are the modern world’s niggers.”
It’s purdah… enforced separation of the sexes. The difference is that instead of blaming women for it (cover up! The sight of your bare face inflames men’s passions!) we’re actually blaming the men who can’t control themselves for being men who can’t control themselves. (OK, we’re also blaming all the men who control themselves just fine, and as one of those, I’m not particularly thrilled. But it makes as much sense as blaming the women for it, as in the purdah tradition.)
There are many religions and cultures in the US where women would feel uncomfortable being in a car with a man. As an expat who’s lived in both India and the UAE, I see how even tourists may prefer a woman driver.