Readers — When 63-year-old Lego-lovin’ John St-Onge made the 3-hour drive to Toronto’s Legoland Discovery Centre, he was looking forward to seeing the fantastic displays. Instead, he became one: A perfect display of our society’s Predator Panic.
Arriving without any young kids in tow (though accompanied by his grown daughter), he was barred from entering. That’s the rule. As a spokeswoman later explained: “It is a child attraction so we do have this in place to protect the families and children that visit.”
So…if adults are there on their own, children are automatically at risk? The assumption being that even if not ALL adults are predators, all predators are adults, so let’s ban ’em?
By that logic, should we allow teachers into school if they don’t bring their offspring with them? Should kids avoid anywhere adults roam free?
In Legoland, all adults are guilty until proven otherwise.
And there’s no way to prove otherwise. – L.
Lego of common sense and treat all men as perverts, including John St-Onge, seen here with a Lego contraption he built.
123 Comments
Well, I guess I know where I’m not going.
Kidspark part of the Science Center has a weirder rule. That one part, and only that one part: Children are not allowed in without adults, adults are not allowed in without kids.
So in the *only* area that children are required to be accompanied (aside from the video game exhibit which is only a temporary exhibit, and it has M rated video games) is the only area adults without kids aren’t allowed.
My kids love the Science Center too much for me to stop going since I found out, also they seem somewhat receptive to changing the rule.
The ‘Legoland Discovery Center’ in Toronto looks like a very different animal than the Legoland amusement parks in CA and FL. It looks more like a Lego-themed children’s museum.
That said, I’ve never known anyone turned away from a children’s museum for being an adult, and it’s BS that it happened to this fellow.
This makes me so sad 🙁
Quite honestly – while not male – I’ve considered going to our local zoo (before school had let out) and take photographs of the animals w/out worrying about my kiddos (who granted are older but don’t need to worry if they are bored or hungry or thirsty)……but worried that people would be freaked out by an adult there by themself….w/out kids.
This is absurd!
I’m kind of shocked. Lego is not a company that is known for making stupid decisions. I’ll be ten times more shocked if they don’t fix this with haste.
Weird.
Awesome Millenium Falcon, though.
My husband and I just had the same conversation about the zoo. He wants to go and photograph the animals, but going without kids would probably not be welcome.
I hope noone is really surprised this happened. It is only going to get worse.
Because we all know that adults who do have children with them never molest or harm children. Give me a break. This is a truly ridiculous idea that clearly has not been given much thought. Does this mean their guard is down by not letting adults without children in? Do they think the kids are safe now? Maybe the employees should have to bring their children with them every day as well? Would that make the kids even safer? Do they really think this is going to protect the children?
Plenty of adults either have fond memories of Legos or even still build the models as an adult. Both of which are perfectly reasonable explanation to go see this exhibit without children. This is ridiculous!
As a childfree woman, stories like this distress me greatly! I’m waiting for when this kind of thing happens to me.
I contacted the LDC through their website here: http://www.legolanddiscoverycentre.ca/toronto/about-us/contact-us.aspx
and this is the response I got:
—
We’re very sorry that you feel so bad with regards to this story.
LEGOLAND Discovery Centre’s primary objective is to provide a safe and
fun attraction for families with children aged three to twelve years to
enjoy together. In order to constantly maintain a welcoming and safe
environment in which to play, we do not permit entry to groups of
adults, adult couples, or lone adults, who are not accompanied by a
child or children under the age of 18.
As we are aware and appreciate the appeal that LEGO(r) has for all ages,
the Centre hosts regular evening events specifically for adults in order
to showcase specific attractions within the Centre, such as MINILAND,
which is constructed from half a million LEGO bricks. Details of our
events can be found on our website – http://www.LEGOLANDDiscoveryCentre.ca
We believe our policy meets the needs of all our guests, which is our
primary concern.
—
I’d encourage everyone to do the same (keep it polite) and maybe they will reconsider their policy. Given that I mentioned that I would stop buying Lego products (and man, do I want the next version of the Mindstorms!) I forwarded it to the Lego corporate guys. Let’s see if the guys who know who buys their product care.
-Alex
Alex, I sent them a polite letter objecting to the policy as well and received the same response. I think maybe they need a few more letters of concern ( info@legolanddiscoverycentre.ca ) before they’ll figure out that the policy does NOT “meet the needs of all our guests”.
If this is a “fear of perverts” thing, I’m agin it. But there’s the outside chance that this might be one place that kids get to hang out without having adults ruin everything for them. If they extended their “no adults” policy to all adults, including parents, I’d feel better about it. In terms of legal matters, is it permissible to exclude someone from an attraction on the basis of age? It strikes me that if you were, say, a restaurant and refused to serve someone because they were over 18, you’d be in some trouble with the authorities.
The Legoland in Kansas City has the same rule, and they counter it with Adult night, when no children are allowed. I think the whole thing is ridiculous.
According to their website, July 10 is Adult Only Night! Only $15! I won’t be visiting any of the Merlin owned parks or Discovery Centers.
So, the guy had to leave because he was an adult without a minor, but his grown daughter was allowed in? Huh??
Back when the YMCA was the Young MEN’S Christian Association, I used to go in and swim in the mornings before I went to work. I did this for several years until our YMCA got into the day care business. Men were discouraged from being in the Y from 7:00 AM when the day care center opened, until 7:00 PM when the day care closed. A few years ago the YMCA changed it’s name from the Young Men’s Christian Association to just YMCA.
Legoland Windsor here in the UK doesn’t have this policy, I’ve just looked all over the website and no mention of it. Good thing too as I’d love to take my husband as a birthday present – he loves lego. At least the UK have remained sensible for once.
@Papilio,
His daughter wasn’t allowed in either. They were both turned away
I also sent them a polite email. I hate fear mongering.
If this man had been refused entry because he was black, because Legoland had a policy against blacks visiting their facility, in order to maintain a welcoming and safe environment…………
Why is discrimination OK as long as it’s a white male?
But we can go alone into a Lego store…I guess where profit is concerned the rules don’t apply.
I often wander around the zoo by myself and have never had a problem. I don’t go into the “Children’s Zoo” though because it costs extra and all it is is stuffed animal toys for kids to play with. The zoos claim that they are for everyone and sell individual memberships, so I’m not sure why they would have a problem with a lone adult walking around.
I just sent an email with my thoughts, and received a bounce back stating that “reply will be delayed due to very high volume. Maybe enough of us are speaking out that they’re hearing us. We can hope.
That’s not just any “LEGO contraption” — that’s the Millenium Falcon!
This policy IS ridiculous. I remember noticing that our local LEGO Discovery Center had “Adult only” nights but I thought it was so the grown-ups could come play without having to worry about the kids running around, like a date night or something. I hope it’s not because they can’t come in without kids!
And they don’t let groups of adults or couples in, either? What’s up with that? I have loved LEGO all my life and if they’d had one of these before I had kids, I would’ve loved to have gone! I will write both the Toronto one and our local one to see about the policy. This is insane.
Lenore: Every time I think there can’t be another ridiculous story like this, you find one!
I am running out of responses. 🙁
I believe Chuck E Cheeses has the same type of policy.
How horrible. There used to be a place near me in So. Cal a number of years ago I think it was called Club Disney & they also wouldn’t allow unaccompanied adults. I’m a huge disney fan & wanted to check it out, but this was long before I had kids.
P.S. If I was nearby and had overheard what had happened, I think I would have let him walk in with one of my kids just so he could get in. I guess I’m trusting like that. I feel so bad for this guy.
So — they don’t let kids in without an adult and don’t let adults in without a kid, but they don’t specify that it has to be YOUR kid — just that you j”must be accompanied by children.” We could start a service to pair lone teenagers whose parents have to work with retirees in order for them both to get into Legoland without issue. Who’s with me on this?!
I checked if there are age restrictions at the other Legolands globally and some mention the policy and some don’t. So, does this mean that Toronto is more dangerous? Or that the children in the other cities are safer? Or perhaps Lego does not care about those children as much as the Toronto ones??? I wrote to the Toronto Legoland and Lego itself. I suggest writing to Lego, as they may not be aware of this `policy’.
I’m sending them a complaint. My husband LOVES legos. I do too!
I think it is outrageous that an adult would be barred from going to LegoLand simply because he does not have a child with him.
I live in Minnesota, USA, and if the Lego display that used to be here at the Mall of America (it’s now some Nickelodeon character-land) had adopted a similar stance, no one would’ve ever been able to visit, because it was pretty much an open-air exhibit with various entryways/exits.
And by the way, that contraption made of Legos pictured above is a Star Wars Millenium Falcon made entirely of Legos.
The man is extremely talented!
@Snow, Seriously,do you know anyone over the age of 5 who actually wants to go to Chuck E Cheese (lol)?
My husband & I don’t have children, but we both have always loved Lego.
We were in Canada last year and almost detoured way out of our way to go there. We didn’t have any idea that they have this ridiculous policy and would have been very disappointed (and angry!!) if we had been turned away.
I was thinking the same thing Allison. I’ll let him borrow one of my kids to get in as long as he pays their admission, lol.
Sharon- thank goodness you hadn’t detoured out of your way to go to the Toronto Legoland last year! Not only because of this ridiculous policy but also because it opened in March 2013!
This guy has probably spent more on Legos than most parents ever would for their kids. That Millenium Falcon set costs $134.00 on Amazon. I would NEVER get something like that for my young kids, because the parts would be lost before it was completed. (This is not something that gets put together in a day.) Now, maybe for an 18 year old, I might, but then he/she would be too old to get in. (Can kids get in by themselves? Or must they have an adult?)
The zoo shouldn’t be a problem. I lived by the zoo and had an individual membership during law school. I walked to the zoo at least once a week by myself and nobody even batted an eye.
This must be a corporate policy as it applies to every Discovery Center, including those in Europe and Japan. It states it on all the websites. Odd. While Legoland CA is a different animal, I seem to remember that when it first opened, it offered specially priced tickets for adults who wanted to see the park but weren’t going to ride any of the rides.
@ Jenn – They all mention it somewhere. It is in different places on different websites but it applies to all.
Just sent my letter:
To Whom It May Concern:
As a mother I am very disappointed to read that you do not allow adults into your Legoland exhibit without children. The adult Lego fans are relegated to go only on certain adult only nights.
I feel this is cheating both the kids and the adults of a wonderful experience. The adult fans would love to see the wonder and excitement that children have for legos and the children may learn something from an adult fan who has been building Lego contraptions for years.
Not to mention how unfair you policy is to adults. It makes all childless adults out to be predators or only up to nefarious doings. We cannot attend on our time but on limited nights where you deem us acceptable.
I would urge you to restore your faith in mankind and realize that inter-generational contact is an essential part of proper socialization.
My family will not be attending your museum until the policy is changed.
I think this is the blanket Legoland policy. At least in the US. We discovered this when we went in Chicago. My sister had been waiting to go because I have kids and she doesn’t . Yes, the policy is stupid.
Has anyone seen the price of Legos lately? I won’t be going to any of their parks and certainly won’t be buying any of their toys.
Sheesh.
Cool Millenium Falcon though, John.
I have to say, as a hard core Free-Ranger 😉 for the first time I really disagree with this post and feel compelled to defend Legoland. Legoland discovery centers are not theme-parks, they are small and very kid-oriented, much like a children’s museum/playland. My children love Legoland and I appreciate how under-supervised it is. Children do not need to be accompanied by adult everywhere they go, their rides have much less stringent height and safety requirements than we have encountered in other parks, and while this contributes to a degree of chaos there, it is a small price to pay for the freedom my kids experience there. There is only one way in and a supervised exit out. Beyond that kids are on their own. Their policy ensures that this relaxed atmosphere can continue, and also ensures parents do not irresponsibly leave children not old enough to supervise themselves. Legoland also has ‘adult only’ nighta every month where no children are present. Honestly though, the park is so child oriented I can see almost no reason why an adult would be there without a child, and I say that as a lego-loving adult myself. The Legoland amusement parks in CA and Orlando appeal to adults and children and have no such policy.
@Mae: Amen! I loved your letter
I stuck it on my FB and I hope it gets the attention it deserves!
Like everyone here, I am outraged at the policy. I sent a complaint to them but not as friendly.
Jacquelyn — I don’t really see how keeping unaccompanied adults out gives children not in any way related to them more freedom, or keeps out unsupervised younger kids. All it does is give the adults less freedom.
“Honestly though, the park is so child oriented I can see almost no reason why an adult would be there without a child, and I say that as a lego-loving adult myself. ”
That may well be an entirely reasonable assessment, but so what? Unless you’re assuming that an adult without a child could only be there for bad reasons, that still is not a rationale for forbidding them. Apparently the two adults in the story either felt differently, or didn’t realize what the park was like. But even in the latter case, should they have been forbidden, or should the marketing of the Legoland be better so that people understand what it’s like?
Speaking of construction style toys, the paper had an article yesterday about a local history museum having a display of Erector sets for their 100th anniversary.
My nephew godson won’t be getting his yearly Legos presents unless their policy changes.
His mom is the ultimate helicopter mom including doing background checks on everyone.
I feel no need to enable hers or anyone else’s paranoia.
@Snow, Seriously,do you know anyone over the age of 5 who actually wants to go to Chuck E Cheese (lol)?
Actually DH and I love Chuck E Cheese and before we had our own kids we would borrow our friends’ kids so we could go without looking silly. We are also both elementary school teachers so maybe we are just strange, lol.
This came up at one of the German Legoland Parks last year, the interesting thing being that in that case the manager swore it had NOTHING to do with child safety or fear of predators– it was only to make sure there was enough space for the families…
FWIW, friends went to Hong Kong Disney and their children were nearly trampled by the crowds of local “unaccompanied” adults… i (really– like fighting to get a picture with Mickey) in theory it could be an attempt to prevent that sort of situation.
I can see why a child orientated museum would have a no lone adults rule. I have seen kids effectively squeezed out of spaces intended for them by groups of adults at places like the Exploratorium in San Francisco (in it’s old incarnation). Not that adults shouldn’t ever have fun too, but a place explicitly for children is a different feel and there aren’t many of them that aren’t made to satisfy adult’s’ demands.
The wording of their communication about it with the emphasis on safety does not make it seem like that’s the case, but I see all the time safety as an excuse used to keep kids out when really places just want an adult only environment.
@CrazyCatLady – the Millennium Falcon in that photo isn’t the $135 version, set 7965. It looks like set 10179 which sells for $3400. Yes, that’s three thousand four hundred dollars. Legos aren’t just for kids.
Not long ago the story came out about disabled people acting as guides at Disneyland so people could beat the lines. I wonder if we’ll see entrepreneurial 12 year olds hanging out at the entrance to Legoland acting as guides for unaccompanied adults.
@Helen Quine If that is the problem one tries to solve, one could make the “children go first” rule instead of banning adults. Or, even better, “first come first serve” rule.
“Honestly though, the park is so child oriented I can see almost no reason why an adult would be there without a child, and I say that as a lego-loving adult myself. ”
That is why adults that want to go there are infrequent. Having unusual hobby is not wrong, just different.
@leonore do you really need those javascripts that pop up any time I higliht something and add “See more at: https://www.freerangekids.com/blah” in the end of copy paste?
They are annoying and mostly useless. (I think)
@lollipoplover I believe that bricks themselves cost less then they used to. At least, if you buy bricks in bucks and not various special theme sets.
@Andy – a first come first served rule is what they had at the Exploratorium. It didn’t stop children being dominated (I don’t mean to imply this happened all the time at the exploratorium, but I saw it on more than one occasion). Adults without children at an attraction tend to have a different focus and their size means they dominate regardless of their intent. If there were only one or two it probably wouldn’t matter, but if they think they would attract quite a few regardless of aiming the attraction at children, banning lone adults may be the only way to make the experience for kids what they intend. I don’t think accompanied children only is a great way to do most, or even many attractions, but I think it is nice to have a few places where children are the point, not just one of many demographics that are catered to or permitted, given how many places they are excluded from. Of course people can agree or disagree on this, we all have different ideas on what makes a good society. But I don’t really see that disagreement as a FRK issue particularly.
Even so, it’s not clear to me whether that’s the original impetus behind the rule in this case anyway. Their response to emails is much more in the vein of “lone adult = danger”. Which isn’t a reason I can get behind at all.
I am so angry about stuff like this.
I find it ridiculous to go to certain things (like Legoland) my husband and I require an age appropriate child to accompany us.
No, we just like lego (or whatever the thing is). Otherwise we would not go.
I’m sick of having to convince someone to hand over their correctly aged child to me so I can go to some events!
Further,
I recently wished to take him and show him a child museum I adored as a child, and looked forward to every time I went to visit my cousins. Now, it did not work out (we just simply did not have the time), but, I do not view a desire for nostalgia, and to share something special from my childhood, to be reason enough to label me in such a suspicious manner, nor to forbid me entry.
@Sharon Good point about nobody over 5 wanting to go to Chuck E Cheeses (except Michelle and her husband) 😉 I am so glad my child has outgrown Chuck E Cheeses, place drove me nuts. And they had a limit of 2 on the beer! 😮 The beer was the only thing that made the place tolerable.
Kidding, I am.
I’ve been to the Lego Discovery place in Chicago and actually I don’t know why a grown man would want to go to a place like that, the one in Chicago (outside of Chicago, actually – I thought it was just a suburb but than I had to take a subway to a bus and it took forever to get there – it’s in a strip mall type of area across the street from an inclosed mall…pain in the butt to get to from Chicago’s financial district, which was where I had been staying), anyway, where was I? Oh yes, the one in Chicago was really aimed at very small children. Toddlers, I’m sure would have a ball, but once you’re much past toddlerhood it’s not exciting. My son was bored and he’s a Lego manic. He even went to Lego Camp this summer and he’s on a Lego Robotics team!
Please ignore my spelling errors in my last post, I need more coffee!
I noticed they say that they consider anyone aged up to 17 a child (age of “child” needed accompany adults), except when they are charging admission, then your an adult after the age of 13. So is my 14 year old considered a adult or a child?
Keep sitting on your thumbs and allowing the govt and media to make criminals of us all. Absolutely the most ridiculous, paranoid thing a company could do? So my 38 yr old brother who loves Legos cant visit that with me? Why because I would be labeled a perv? Id like one of the morons that approved this to explain it to him, why he is not allowed in because he is 38 yrs old and suffers from down syndrome. Another example of the dopes running things not being able to reason past their own interests. To anyone who agrees with the policy, you are the reason we are all losing our freedoms in the USA. It is sad that the media and corporations have bought the USA. Prepare to go from being citizens to subjects, because if Obama has his way, he will anoint himself King.
“I wonder if we’ll see entrepreneurial 12 year olds hanging out at the entrance to Legoland acting as guides for unaccompanied adults?”
Oh, I hope so!
It reminds me of a time when we were at Universal. There was a ride that required a small child to be accompanied by an adult, but an adult could not go alone (I don’t think it was a fear thing, just a limited amount of seats thing). My son made a comment that if we had more time, he could probably make $5 a pop riding over and over to let groups that had 2 kids and 3 adults all stay together.
As for the appeal of Legos, I have not been to the Toronto center, but I have been to the Orlando park, and the MiniLands are fabulous to see! I was impressed with them even as an adult, and can see how anyone would appreciate them.
It’s really a shame that this fan was turned away. They’ve probably lost a whole lot of business.
I agree with Andy about the script.
I don’t know Canadian law but it would be a fun case to argue in certain US states. We all know there is no reasonable explanation based on statistics of predators so they would have to change their argument. However, there are of course restaurants, clubs and other venues that have age limits sometimes banning children or in other cases banning people under 25, 55 or 65. I am not sure how it would play out legally.
I had a similar experience at The Children’s Museum in Boston. The Ruby Slippers from the Wizard of Oz were on display (I am an OZ fanatic) and I was so excited to go see them, we were going to be in the city for my 25th High School reunion and thought we would go in early and see the display. When we got there, I practically had to sign over my first born to get it, it was absolutely crazy. I wish people would get a grip!!
@Helen Quine I do not like the rule even if it is about the problem you describe. I agree that if adults squeeze out kids, then kids ability to see the exposure should be protected.
But, I do not like rules that punish (and total exclusion is punishment) whole class of people out of something just because few are inconsiderate. Just to create the analogy, if the administrator in school punish all kids for act of few, then I would consider him incapable.
I also do not like much solutions that seem to originate from “one group against other group” mentality. Adults and kids should not be enemies that needs to be kept away from each other.
I would be fine with area being build to be uncomfortable to adults or enforced “kids have priority and adults must step away any time kid want to play”. Additional bonus would be that it would regulate also those who came with kids, but squeezed other peoples kids anyway.
I know that my final suggestion may not be practical all the time, but if there are that many lone adult, they may enlarge the place so both kids and adults fit in. Adults could be “secondary customers in that case”.
I’ve sent my message to request a change of policy and told them I will not be buying anymore lego until it is changed!
This is discrimination at work and needless fear-mongering – things have to start changing and the only way to do this to hurt them in their bank account – stop buying until they change this ridiculous policy.
Or, they could limit the number of people allowed into a given area at a time. Or a lot of other things, short of banning entire classes of people (who apparently don’t actually appear in very large numbers, so is this really a problem anyway?)
The whole thing about not letting adults in because they make it hard for children to see things seems fairly bogus — they DO let adults in. Why is an adult without children there a bigger obstruction than an adult WITH children? Is Grandpa the Lego Fan going to take up less time and space because he drags along Junior just so he can get in? Actually, he’s going to take up MORE!
I’m not saying anyone’s being dishonest about the reasoning, I’m just saying that if it’s sincere, it’s illogical.
My response to the posters concerned with adults taking up too much space: isn’t this just what happens? Adults being oblivious and outright rude aren’t limited to museums. How many times have you been to a bar and can’t get by some lug who won’t move even when you ask?
Surely the adults at the display don’t stand there for hours. I would take it as a chance to practice waiting your turn, saying please and excuse me, and coping with the fact that some people are just plain inconsiderate.
As for this story, it’s the Legoland Discovery Centre, not the Legoland Children’s Centre. If they only want kids then they should change their name. Not letting in adults is ridiculous.
While I think the rule is stupid and should be changed, I’m not convinced that it was motivated by predator panic. I think it was motivated by space.
(1) This rule applies universally, even for Germany and Japan – countries not known for their pedophilia or helicopter obsession.
(2) Most of the websites say that space is limited and buying a ticket online doesn’t guarantee admittance at the time you show up.
(3) It is intended as a place for young children and there is nothing specifically targeted toward adults.
(4) The rule doesn’t carry over to the amusement parks where there are things that would interest adults alone (the mini-villages mostly since the rides kinda hire my 7 year old).
(5) It applies to every adult.
It sounds to me that there were issues or they suspected there may be issues with the kids being denied access due to adults at a place designed specifically for children.
I find it interesting that most adults, even here, are fine with some adult places being adults-only. I don’t see a huge outcry over the many many many bars, for instance, that are over-21 only. But you build a place for kids and say we are only letting kids (and the adults who transported them there) in and everyone freaks out as if it is clear people are being branded pedophiles. I’m more bothered by the fact that 16 is the cut off to be able to go without parents.
That should be “BORE my 7 year old” although I wish that Legoland would hire my 7 year old. She can use some pocket money that I don’t put in her pocket.
@Amy O The difference is that it is way harder for a kid to ask the adult to move away then doing the same for another adult in a bar.
It is also much easier and common to ignore or dismiss a kid then another adult.
I would say that two situations are profoundly different. Kids are smaller and weaker and if we adults act as they have no place, they have no chance.
Also, exploratorium was meant for kids education and bar is meant for adults fun. It kind of make sense if the rules in the first place favor kids. (I do not agree with ban)
This is humorous in a pathetic way.
My son’s into Legos and so I’ve had occasion to read about the company. It’s now keen—the Lego people—on getting more adults to use/buy Legos, make massive models, go to conventions, etc.
Curious how this guy then got bit for taking their bait!
This story made me terribly sad for that man. He spent probably thousands of dollars on LEGO’s in his lifetime and now they won’t let him in!?
And that response Alex received from the LEGO people was discouraging. I’d hoped there would be a mistake and LEGO corporate would see the error of their ways when someone pointed it out to them.
oh, and I kind of agree with Jim above: we really need to be vigilant about Big Sister/Big Mother/Big Nanny ruling over us and stealing away our adulthood, our individual rights and our independence.
Rich Wilson – thanks for the actual price! Again, I do think that he has spent more money on Lego than most any parent. Andy sorry, I would not be buying that for anyone – that is more than I have ever paid for a car (which I use daily!)
From reading what people say here, I get that this place may be most suitable for kids, and kids between certain ages. (Younger, who have shorter attention spans.) So why not call it “Children’s Lego Center” or some such. Children’s Museums, while fun for my kids, hold very little of interest for me. I would rather go to all age museums. As I suspect that most adults would, including the gentleman at issue once he knew it wasn’t going to have the cool displays or such.
This is simply more security theater. This rule doesn’t make anyone appreciably safer.
And, oddly enough, the Toronto Legoland Discovery Centre is currently advertising an “adults only” night for this evening. Go figure . . . .
@Donna–with regard to the rule being motivated by space concerns rather than fear of predators . . . The spokesperson stated that the rule was implemented “to protect the families and children that visit.” Seems they need to get their story straight.
I just sent Lego Corporate a email stating that I will no longer be buying any Lego products for my children and will not take them to any of their attractions until the change the policy and provide this gentleman a PUBLIC apology. I spend between 50 and 100 a month at the Lego store in Dallas. I guess I need to find a different toy for my son to fall in love with. This is the only way to get these morons to wake up. They only understand money.
The issue to me is this:
“It is a child attraction so we do have this in place to protect the families and children that visit.”
If in fact the policy is in place to “protect” the families and children from adults who enter without kids, then it’s wrong and needs to be changed.
If, on the other hand, the policy is in place because it’s meant as a place where children can enjoy themselves without adults, then the policy should state that clearly.
Don’t couch it in terms of “safety”, state that it’s so the kids can enjoy themselves without competing for space with adults.
Protect them from what? All protection is not from pedophiles. Nor is there any need to protect PARENTS from pedophiles. It could very easily be protect their use of the facility.
Again, I don’t know why the ban was put in place. I do think there is a HUGE HUGE HUGE immediate response from people on the blog to do the exact thing they accuse everyone else of doing – job to worst first thinking, just in the opposite direction.
I also have noticed a HUGE trend here in this idea that it is wrong for kids to have places of their own. ANY attempt to carve out a niche for kids means that adults are being discriminated against and called pedophiles. I know that my kid LOVES to have places to call hers alone. It makes her feel special. I like to occasionally go to bars and get some adult-only time. I don’t think having a handful of places for kids to call their own and a handful of places for adults to call their own is going to be the downfall of society and result in the complete separation of kids and adults in society.
@Snow & @Michelle, I loved going to Chuck E Cheese as a teenager until they realized I was coming in without a parent and kicked me out. It was the only arcade close to my house, and I LOVE skeeball. The only reason I don’t go as an adult is because I find it too stressful to keep reasonable track of my kids in all that chaos. (I know they’re safe and all, but I don’t want to be the mom with the kids who are walking up the skeeball machine or trying to climb on the animatronic singers. I have SEEN kids do that.) I would totally go alone and try to win giant stuffed animals to bring home to the kids. 🙂
I don’t see how “adults wouldn’t like it anyway” is a good reason to ban them. Maybe they WOULD enjoy it. Maybe they would waste their money and be disappointed, oh well. I do think that Lego should make it clear in their advertisements that this particular exhibit is specifically geared to little kids, just because Lego is generally enjoyed by all ages. It wouldn’t be unreasonable for the ticket sellers to say something like, “There aren’t any really cool exhibits in here. It’s mostly little kid rides and stuff that adults wouldn’t enjoy, even adults who love Lego.” That would be fair and not insulting.
As far as the zoo, my local zoo also sells individual memberships, so they clearly expect adults to come alone. Of course, I would have thought Lego and the YMCA (see Jim Collins’ comment above) would expect adults, too.
Wait a minute!! So, Lego wants kids to be Legomaniacs, but only until they turn 18? Does this mean they think Legomaniac children become maniac predator adults?
If this is about reserving the use of a limited facility for kids, then say so. The statement that referred to protecting children and families was made in response to this particular man trying to enter the attraction. It made it sound as if there was a need for protection against him.
Inferring that this an “eek, a man” rule is deductive reasoning, not worst first thinking.
PS, I think it’s pretty insulting and ridiculous to say that kids can’t have a good time because unattended adults are going to come along and ruin it for them.
First off, those kids already aren’t getting to enjoy the Legos without adult interference because they have to bring their parents along. Overprotective parents are MUCH better at ruining their own kids’ fun than total strangers are. Yes, kids should be allowed time to play all on their own, without any adults bothering them, but that’s not happening here anyway. The kids may be freer than some places, but they are still subject to the oversight of parents and Lego employees.
Secondly, sure, lone adults might act like jerks and hog exhibits or whatever — and if so, they should be dealt with by employees. But kids and their parents are just as capable of doing the exact same thing. IME, some of the most difficult people are selfish, entitled little brats and the parents who defend everything they do. One of my oldest daughter’s friends is something of a troublemaker, and her mother defends EVERYTHING she does, and even threw a giant fit when I grounded my own daughter for getting into trouble with her friend! (Because her precious baby lost a playmate for a whole week while my kid was grounded. She accused me of punishing HER daughter by grounding mine.) So, you know, maybe they should only allow in one family at a time so the kids don’t have to deal with other children and their parents. But then siblings might fight with each other, so maybe only one kid at a time.
Or, here’s a crazy thought, maybe only punish the people who cause problems.
Donna, if adults being there ruins it for the kids, then it applies to the people who brought them there. They should have a waiting area with a bar, or something.
If having the parents along doesn’t actually ruin it for all the kids, then the three in a thousand unaccompanied adults who want to see this place isn’t going to ruin it, either.
I’m all for adults-only things, and children-only things. I even get “children-plus parents only” things IF there’s an actual activity going on that incorporates the parent-child relationship (like Mommy/Daddy and Me swim lessons at the Y.) I don’t get “we let in some adults, but not others, because having a child along magically makes you not the thing that makes adults unwelcome.”
Perhaps they are getting a great influx of messages regarding this. This is the reply I just received:
Thank you for your inquiry/comment.
Due to an overwhelming amount of questions, our response will be delayed, but we will get back to you as soon as possible.
Thank you for your patience.
LEGOLAND Discovery Centre Toronto”
Let’s hope WE can help make some change in the right direction.
Thanks for bringing this to our attention Lenore!
“[I]f adults being there ruins it for the kids, then it applies to the people who brought them there. They should have a waiting area with a bar, or something.”
I wish our Children’s Museum had that 😀
Yeah, I could get behind an adult waiting area! 🙂
I am both sad and outraged. We have been to two lego lands, including the one in the home of lego, Billund, Denmark, and there is tons of stuff to do for adults. Honestly, the lego miniland (where they build famous city skylines and scences) is much more interesting for adults than young kids. My husband loved lego as a child and continued to build as an adult. I cannot even estimate how many legos we have. We now have two small girls and he enjoys introducing them to lego. But, even if we didn’t have kids, I could imagine us visiting a legoland park. I would have been just as stunned to be turned away. Lego is for everyone of all ages! I too think this is out of character for Lego and hope they will fix this immediately.
As for the few comments I read at the top about adults concerned about going to the zoo without kids. Really? We go to lots of zoos and I see kid-less adults all the time. The national zoo in D.C. is open to everyone ALL the time. I think we over-think things too much. Go out and enjoy your life. If someone stops you from doing something you think is normal, have a conversation with them, and perhaps their supervisor, and if that doesn’t work, call the media like this guy obviously did. If we’re going to change rules like this, adults need to be seen alone, in public, doing what adults normally do, around kids. That should be the normal state of affairs. Live like it is!
Go to the Zoo. The Toronto Zoo has memberships, that have turned into walking clubs.
If Legoland or whatever their corporate title is, if their Head Office is in the US, then Donna’s argument about the cultures and way of thinking in the other countries doesn’t really matter. The policy will have been made in the state of paranoia…….oops meant the policy will have been made in the states, and just set down the line.
@Andy I would be fine with area being build to be uncomfortable to adults or enforced “kids have priority and adults must step away any time kid want to play”.
Easily done, as parents can tell you after one knee-killing group conference in a kindergarten class room.
One of the considerations when the Arizona Science Center was designed was how to make it accessible mainly to the intended targets and minimize adult intervention and domination. It’s amazing what carefully hung labels and exhibit windows can do in encouraging adults to stand back to see the exhibit, as well as child-sized benches and tables. There is some adult-sized furniture, but it was placed so the adults were most comfortable around the outside of any exhibit.
They have a “date night” when adults can come, and don’t bar solo adults, but it’s a child-centered architecture.
“This rule applies universally, even for Germany and Japan — countries not known for their pedophilia or helicopter obsession.”
Oh, there is certainly a problem with molesters in Japan. And in recent years they have started to take up the US’s attitude towards pedopbhiles. These things combined, makes every lone man a suspect (of danger to women and kids). On some trains the lone men have to ride in separate train cars. Though they did not take the hovering, never-let-kids-be-alone approach, there is certainly a bias.
“The difference is that it is way harder for a kid to ask the adult to move away then doing the same for another adult in a bar.”
What?? Bars have music too loud for me to hear what other people are saying, and the adults would be drinking and not looking down to kid-height level. It’s much easier for a child to ask someone to move at Legoland… if they haven’t been taught to be afraid to talk to adults.
so..how do they know a potential guest is a registered offender?
Amanda Matthews, when I lived in Japan, the lone men in train cars (during commute time) were not isolated because they had to be away from kids. They were isolated because many men in Japan have a demonstrated inability to not annoy physically annoy women on the trains. Thus, women-only cars (or, men-only cars, the reverse.) I rarely saw children at all on the Tokyo Subway.
@vahall
They are isolated because all men are suspected of being molesters (due to the actions of a small portion of men). I’m not saying it was because of pedophiles* just demonstrating that there is a bias and separation.
*In Japan, “kids” are actually kids – i.e. people that have not begun puberty, and “pedophiles” are actually pedophiles – people attracted to people that have not begun puberty. Therefore someone touching a teenager on the train would be seen as a molester, while in America they would be seen as a pedophile.
@amanda, I read that upwards of 60% of Japanese women have been physically harassed. Sorry I can’t provide a link but when I first read about it the number stood out because it was so high. So it’s not a minor issue and it’s not a lone few. This isn’t suspected child molesting, a completely different topic altogether. Japan isn’t the only country to do this. Brazil has women only subway cars, as do a few more countries. There was a piece in the NY Times also about the growing problem of groping in NYC.
The last time I went to Chuck E Cheese in the Atlanta area was around 5 years ago, and I had no children. Actually, we had an adult double date, since it was the only place we could think of that had Skee Ball. I think we had to have a stamp on out hands (instead of a wristband) that indicated we came in with no children so that we would leave with no children. I think the wristbands had the number of children one came in with written on it. It seemed like a decent system to allay fears of child abductions. I’d be angry if I were an aunt or grandparent who came to a birthday party but was denied entry because I came at a different time than the birthday child.
This does seem a bit odd: there is a similar policy at the Lego Discovery Centre in Manchester in the UK, but not to Legoland in Windsor. It is not at all clear why unaccompanied adults should be excluded.
The playground at Coram’s Field in London, on part of the former site of the 18th century Foundling Hospital, has a similar policy. http://www.coramsfields.org/
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4061/4349587495_0c9b11c93d.jpg
Apparently egoland released a pic of the guy in one of their holding cells.
“The statement that referred to protecting children and families was made in response to this particular man trying to enter the attraction. It made it sound as if there was a need for protection against him.”
No, it was made in reference to a man and a WOMAN trying to enter the place. I know that it fits the view to forget that his daughter was also present and was also turned away.
“Donna, if adults being there ruins it for the kids, then it applies to the people who brought them there. They should have a waiting area with a bar, or something.”
Huh? This is a place targeted to 2-10 year olds and predominantly of interest to the 5 and under set. We are talking about a group that does need hands-on supervision even under most free range principals. Unless Legoland is entering the daycare business, parents kinda need to be at hand.
Second, it is not about ruining it; it is about a limited number of people being allowed in what appears to be a fairly small attraction. They want to see that all the kids in their target audience are served – i.e. not standing outside waiting to get in while adults are inside playing with the toddler toys. The fact that they have sufficient interest from adults that it is financially viable to have adult nights indicate that this could be an issue.
And it is THEIR company. They are actually allowed to have a business plan that says “Young children are our target audience and we are catering solely to them and their families,” just like a bar can say “Adults over 21 are our target audience so those under-21 are not admitted.” I don’t see anyone insisting that children are being insulted by refusing to allow them to enter bars. Or people boycotting bars because they don’t allow children in. Or writing letters to bars because they don’t allow children in.
Good grief. I really don’t understand this obsession that it is somehow wrong for kids to have a kids-only place where they are not fighting with adults for their toys.
“If Legoland or whatever their corporate title is, if their Head Office is in the US”
Lego is not an American company. I believe it is Norwegian.
“And it is THEIR company. They are actually allowed to have a business plan that says “Young children are our target audience and we are catering solely to them and their families,” just like a bar can say “Adults over 21 are our target audience so those under-21 are not admitted.”
Sure. I am not with the crowd that says they can/should be sued for discrimination, or that they’re outside of their own rights. But I can still think it’s not a good idea, because I don’t think that there are good reasons behind it, and say so.
Lego is a Danish company, but that does not necessarily tell us where the branch that runs the Legolands is based.
Danish. Norwegian. I knew it was one of those cold, blonde countries. j/k
The original Legoland parks were built by the Lego Group (to which I can personally attest since my grandmother worked for the city where Legoland California is located and dealt with the Danes and the building permits). The Lego Group then sold the amusement parks to Merlin Enterprises in 2005. The Merlin Group built the Florida and Malaysia parks and started the Discovery Centers. The Merlin Group is a BRITISH company.
Thanks for the info about Merlin Group….but though that kills the speculation that it’s American-driven, we know the British aren’t any better in the predator-panic department. So the original point is not necessarily destroyed.
If this is all based on predator-panic, why does it only apply to the indoor parks? Are pedophiles now vampires and can’t be exposed to the sun? Merlin Entertainment owns both.
Heck, the outdoor parks (at least in San Diego but I also think at least some of the others) have water features and entire water parks inside of them, meaning lots of little kids running around in bathing suits. Seems like more of a reason to ban unaccompanied adults in the outdoor parks if the ban is based on predator-panic, but yet, adults are welcome alone.
In fact, they do things like bring in the new X-Wing Fighter, the largest lego model ever made, to lure adults (it was cool).
I’m still wondering how they can call 13-17 year olds children yet they are charged adult admission!! When it comes down to it, it’s all about money. They aren’t concerned about kids or families, crazy helicopter mums hear this policy and it feeds their fears so they think ” this is a safe “stranger free” place…
Oh, this is a big nuisance! I love Lego, and was looking forward to visiting the new LEGOLAND that I think is close to Johor Bahru. Going back without the kids this time, looks like we will have to raid the rellies for some children to accompany us. Though Malaysia being Malaysia, I could probably just stand around on a corner close to the park and take the little audience that usually gathers to have a look at the foreigner :-). So much for a childfree time, though….
Never mind about the 60%, I don’t know where I read it and it bothered me that I couldn’t find a source. But the number of reported cases is high, figure that only 5% of cases are reported, voila.
“If this is all based on predator-panic, why does it only apply to the indoor parks? -”
I don’t know. I wasn’t actually saying that it is, I was saying that the other person initially made the remark that the policy might have had something to do with the fact that the division that runs the Legolands might be based in a country where predator panic reigns, and that *last part* appears to be right. I wasn’t really endorsing the theory, though.
I actually agree that this site is a bit quick to jump to the “predator panic” explanation for every exclusionary or inconvenient policy, and I think you’re probably right that it is not the reason in this case, but I still don’t think it’s a good idea.
Are there no laws there about age discrimination?
This sounds like a perfect example of someone being discriminated against because of his age.
@hineata – I think the Legolands in Malaysia are all outside parks. The rule doesn’t apply to those. Go at will, even without the kiddies.
Merlin Entertainment owns 623 amusement parks of various kind throughout the world. It is second only to Disney in amusement park visitors and money. The handful of Discovery Centers are the only ones known to have an unaccompanied adult ban.
I’d say the rule has nothing to do with predator-panic and is something unique about those Centers that made it a fiscally reasonable decision for them. I can’t say that I think it is a bad business decision. If I take my toddler to a place built, designed and advertised as being for toddlers, I’d be a bit peeved if we were stuck waiting outside while adults played with the toddler toys. I’d also be peeved if I needed to wrestle the toddler toys out of the hands of adults so my kid could play. I’d certainly be less likely to go back repeatedly as toddlers are not the most patient people on the planet so the experience would not be enjoyable for us. And that is where the money is in these Discovery Centers – young children, daycares and preschools coming back over and over again.
That is INSANE! Legos have such a cult following I know many adults who own more sets than kids do and it’s just going to continue with us nerds who grew up with them and are getting older. The thing is, Lego knows this! I really feel like they market to this subset of adults as much as they do kids.
“If I take my toddler to a place built, designed and advertised as being for toddlers, I’d be a bit peeved if we were stuck waiting outside while adults played with the toddler toys. ”
That’s a fair point, but I was thinking more about the people who argue “it’s because it’s for kids and what adult in their right mind wants to go there anyway?” If it’s really so VERY anomalous for an adult to want to go in without kids, it just isn’t going to happen that anyone’s going to be made to wait for the one adult that shows up every other week. It doesn’t seem to be sufficient reason to make a policy that bars those who want to go there. I realize that they don’t need to meet what I consider a sufficient reason, but I’m still allowed to think it’s making a rule where a rule doesn’t need to be made to serve any REAL purpose, which I find philosophically distasteful.
Of course if those people are wrong that no significant number of adults really want to go there anyway, and it actually is a problem that adults are interfering with kids’ access, then I think keeping unaccompanied adults out during normal hours and giving them their own hours IS a reasonable solution.
I got a response from Lego…….
Dear Erik,
Thanks for getting in touch with us.
I’m sorry to hear that you’re disappointed in LEGOLAND ® Discovery Centre Toronto not admitting an adult LEGO ® fan because he wasn’t accompanied by a child. We really care about our fans, whatever their age, and we never want a LEGO fan to be made to feel unwelcome.
LEGOLAND Discovery Centres are designed to be safe and fun attractions for families with children aged three to ten years. It’s true that adults are not admitted unless they’re supervising a child under the age of 16, but this rule isn’t meant to discriminate against adults. It was put in place to help the centres stay focused on kids and creating the best possible play environment for them.
But of course we know that there are lots of adult fans who’d love to visit a Discovery Centre. That’s why the Centre hosts regular evening events specifically for adults. The team at LEGOLAND Discovery Centre Toronto has arranged a visit to the next Adults Only Night for the gentleman concerned and his daughter. We’ve heard that they were quite happy to accept the invitation and hope they’ll have a great time at the centre.
Here at the LEGO Group, we want to concentrate on making the best toys in the world, so our friends at Merlin Entertainments run the Discovery Centres and Parks. If you’d like to know more about LEGOLAND policies and events, please get in touch with the Discovery Centre team directly. They can be contacted on http://www.legolanddiscoverycentre.ca/toronto/about-us/contact-us.aspx .
Customer feedback is as important to our partners as it is to us, and I’ve passed your comments on to the LEGOLAND Discovery Centre team.
Thanks again for getting in touch. We’re always pleased to receive feedback from LEGO fans! If you could take a moment to complete a four question survey by going to the link below, it will help us make sure we are providing the best customer service to you.
http://www.econsumeraffairs.com/lsi/ensurvey.html?F1=033625289A
Please let us know if you need anything else.
Best wishes,
Beth
LEGO Consumer Services
@Eric-
They sound so happy and cheerful.
Kaye I saw this
FWIW, friends went to Hong Kong Disney and their children were nearly trampled by the crowds of local “unaccompanied” adults… i (really— like fighting to get a picture with Mickey) in theory it could be an attempt to prevent that sort of situation.
I hope you don’t want child free adults banned from disney. I have been several times alone and its a wonderful place to go a place where a single woman can be their until park closing and feel safe I would hate it if disney fell in with the paranoia that thinks anyone who is older and has no kids is going to want to harm them.
“I would NEVER get something like that for my young kids, because the parts would be lost before it was completed.”
My 6-year-old completed the Millennium Falcon lego kit in a day, without much adult help (I had to help him some with the base “platform” which is the first bag of the kit). It was his Christmas present from the grandparents last year.
Hogwarts Castle took him longer (about three days) and he bought it with his saved allowance.
Those of you saying that you won’t buy LEGO because of this stupid unfair rule have it wrong. LEGO does not own these facilities. Merlin Entertainment does. As far as I know, LEGO supplies the product and Merlin does the rest.
Imagining that they just couldn’t have this kind of thing happening in Japan, where cutesy kid-oriented stuff for adults is a huge part of the culture.
Betting they have some sort of “Hello Kitty” theme park where adults regularly go… without kids!
The Las Vegas Children’s Discovery Museum has the same policy. I had to go back to the car for something once and was refused re-entry. I said something like, “My kids are already in there with my husband,” and was allowed to remain inside under the careful watch of museum security until I could reach my husband on the cell phone. He had to wander back to the entrance to bail me out of museum jail.
Very annoying, but it got me wondering…what if a mentally challenged adult wanted to visit the children’s museum with his parent or caregiver? What if a teacher wanted to preview the exhibits before arranging a field trip. Nope. No under-12’s in tow? You must be a pervert. Expect to be harassed and possibly refused entry.
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