OUTRAGE OF THE WEEK: Cops Threaten Mom for Letting Son Play Outside

I’m sorry to read this posting but not really surprised.

Earlier this week I visited a nursery where the teacher had been told to take down the plastic playhouse by the local policeman.

The reason he gave was that it might get vandalised.

It was an old second-hand playhouse that had been donated.

Yes, it truly is “State of Fear” control in our respective countries.

But change does, can and will happen through our efforts. Let’s all do what we can in our own ways.

How about making an appointment with the Chief of Police to discuss the situation? He may know the law better and perhaps could talk to his officers about threatening citizens with arrest when they haven’t broken a law.

“… however ask to see where we lived, which I agreed to in the spirit of being cooperative.”

On a tangential note, not clear to me from this if you let them in your house or just showed them the exterior, but in the future don’t forget you don’t have to let them in if they don’t have a warrant.

On a side note, what 13-or-14 year olds would even *want* to go to a playground/park alone, now that they’re old enough?

Hmm… I think I’d suggest filing a complaint with the police department. Don’t be malicious: assuming the officers in question were polite, state that they were polite. Mention that you are aware that they were doing what they thought was best. But in spite of those things, you were harassed for doing something that is not against the law, and attempting an illegal restriction that you feel violates your freedom as a member of the community. After that would be a good point to get briefly into your parenting philosophy including statistics on safety. This expresses that you are not just some neglectful parent (without outright saying “I am not a neglectful parent”). I would avoid putting in writing any specific freedoms you allow your son, beyond the incedent in question.

It is possible that the response will be “the officer acted correctly, you are irresponsible.” it seems however, that often the higher ups are more reasonable about this kind of thing, and I think it’s just as possible tht you’ll get an apology instead. If that is in writing, you have a tangible tool to use the next time something like this happens.

That’s slot of “ifs” but it seems worth a try? Do other people here think there is a risk of getting into more trouble doing this? It seems unlikely to me, but I wanted to throw out the possibility in case someone with more legal knowledge thinks that is a concern.

I concur that an appointment to see the Chief of Police is definitely in order. One of the items on the agenda is for him/her to show you the crime statistics for that park and that restaurant. Specifically, how many 8-year-olds have been hit by cars and/or kidnapped in that vicinity in the last 20 years? If the number is zero, then the police owe you a big apology for their over-reaction. If the number is large, then the police owe you an apology for not making the neighborhood aware that there is a major crime spree going on in your park and/or El Pollo Loco.

(I suspect the answer will be zero.)

Don’t leave the Chief’s office without an apology.

Hey Kimberlee,

That sounds like a bad day. Who would want the cops over telling them they are endangering their kids? Nobody. Maybe the cops were having a slow day, generally I think they are supposed to enforce the law, not their beliefs.

@Susan – maybe her kids have moved on to lesson #2: telling the difference between sincere, helpful strangers and “predators”. The former don’t deserve to be treated like the latter.

@ Taylor….thats my point, what eight year old can make a distinction between kind, helpful people, and others with a hidden adgenda be it to call the police, or harm you…..it is a judgement call…and I don’t think at eight most kids have the ability to make that call for themselves…

To top it off…..”predators” don’t have a sign on them saying I am going to hurt you….they look like normal people too…

Well, first: hugs to Kaylee for being an epic mom.

I don’t know about the US but here in the UK the magic words to use on a cop are: “Are you detaining me, officer?” because, by law, a police officer cannot detain you unless a) he believes you to be a terrorist or involved with terrorism and is stopping-and-searching you under Section 44 of the Terrorism Act or b) he is arresting you and charging you with a crime.

In the short term: FIND OUT WHAT THE LAW IS! I cannot believe you could have gone to jail for letting your 8-year-old go to the park on his own. Police Officers can and do take advantage of most people’s respect/fear of their position of authority and lack of knowledge and try to bullshit their way. Talk to a lawyer, or the Chief of Police, or research the codes yourself at the Library or in the Internet if your time is less precious to you than your money.

In the long term: This is the kind of stuff that needs to go on a “FreeRange Wiki” — statutes and case law and “What To Do If”s; along with parenting tips etc. If Lenore wants to make a bit of cash off it (at least enough to cover hosting costs) she could charge a membership fee of a dollar or fifty cents a month. Raise that to a couple of dollars a month and you could start to put together a Legal Defense Fund 😛

@se7en, your comment just gave me an idea for a response to the police, which I’ll try to remember when BabyNonymous is old enough to go out on her own:

“Oh, Officer, I’m sorry. I know this isn’t why you joined the force. It must be so frustrating for you when someone, no matter how well-meaning, wastes your time with non-issues like this.”

@Fiona, I think a visit to your police chief is in order, too. I’d tell him or her that you’re not sure why there’s so much police concern about your safe park, but that because you know of no safety issues over the past decade, you’re feeling harassed.

Congrats for keeping your cool in a tough situation.

I think this just emphasizes that part of raising free range kids is equiping them to respond appropriately to the “concerned adults” they will inevitably encounter.

Frankly, I can’t completely blame the man for being concerned when a kid alone answered “yes” to the question “Are you hungry?” (Though calling the police was a bit extreme.)

My friend let her 3-year old son play outside in the yard, supervised, and (gasp – horror of horrors!) naked, a few years ago. He was playing with the hose while it was 85 degrees out (positively tropical for Alaska,which was where this happened). Her neighbors called the cops on her (instead of just telling her that they might be uncomfortable with a naked 3-year-old) and the cops showed up and threatened to charge her with child neglect and/or call child protective services – because it was apparently horribly inappropriate for a 3-year-old to run around naked. In his yard. Supervised by his mom. -Sigh.

Oh, and about the whole “stranger buying the kid food” thing, I have a story. We live across the street from a little league park, so my son spends a lot of time there in the summer. One day, he came home with some candy from the snack bar, saying that some guy gave it to him. My husband had a fit – he pictured some creep walking up to kids and offering them candy. I asked my son for more details, and it turns out that my son was in line to buy the candy, and the man in front of him in line paid for his candy, then went back to watch the ballgame. In other words, it was nothing more than a random act of kindness!

I wonder from a national security point of view what will be the ultimate result of all this fear-parenting. In Afghanistan and many other parts of the world, boys of eight are soldiers, shooting with guns almost as big as themselves.

While we worry about our kids stubbing their toes at the park, other child soldiers are in life and death fights. (Would not our efforts be better spent helping organisations that rescue and treat these kids than harassing parents who haven’t permanently tied their kids to their apron strings?)

So are we train our kids to be nervous of the world, incompetent in handling risk, with no life skills and an inflated sense of their own self-esteem.? From this pool of infantile adults we will be drawing the recruits for our armed forces (and our police, firefighters, emergency rescue workers, brain surgeons, judges etc ,think about that!) and as wars will not go away, send them to fight men who have been in death fights since their tenth birthday?

And then we will wonder why we are sending lour ambs to the slaughter.

@Carol the Long winded – What?! How is crossing the street from the park to get water at a fast food joint and accepting an offer for food from someone giving the appearance of “being a waif that wasn’t cared for”?

Perhaps it’s common practice for him to go over there and get water? Maybe he didn’t initially get food because he wasn’t hungry enough to spend his own money, but wasn’t going to turn down an offer for free food.

What person college age or under (or even adults, for that matter) doesn’t accept an offer for free food?

Besides, if the person actually thought he was “a waif that wasn’t cared for,” what about talking to the kid before calling the cops? It’s amazing what happens when people actually talk to each other.

@Susan Theirrien: I agree with this. At the same time, kids do need to know how to be polite to strangers and protect themselves in the event that this person is not a good person. Sure, all our statistics tell us that it is highly unlikely for anything to happen to a child – we should take comfort in that – but by the same token, even as adults we don’t immediately trust every stranger we meet. If someone asks to buy me a drink, I don’t let them because I don’t know their true intentions.

For the mom that this happened to, I’d suggest making sure your kid carries his water and snacks with him. “An ounce of prevention” sort of thing. Send him with a friend or a few and let him go back outside to be a kid. With the cops, know your laws, have them on you, show them if they decide to butt in again. They are public servants, not kings or governors.

I would suggest to Kimberlee to take some statistics to the Chief of Police and the rest of the police in the department. The statistics of Free Range – how kids have more of a chance of being in a car wreck than being abducted, etc. Lots of people are getting pulled -in, or are already believers in all this fear, cops included! This is a good opportunity to show them the ‘other side!’

One of the (many) ironic things about this story is that if a 13-14yo were in the park alone, the policeman would probably have run him off for loitering. For whom exactly is the park?

As an example of overprotectiveness, and trying to keep kids safe in the wrong way, here’s an article from Calgary, AB.

http://drdawgsblawg.blogspot.com/2010/11/calgary-social-services-anti-racist.html

What do they call a regime that randomly locks up citizens? That has abandoned the rule of law in favour of the arbitrary exercise of power?

Hey, yep that’s right! When other people do it we call it fascist or totalitarian! But you know what? When OUR police and others abuse their power to harass US it’s fascist too.

Because of the talk we talk the theory we operate under is that it’s only okay to bother some people to protect other people. The whole new set up means that now citizens – law abiding citizens – can be randomly harassed because in some ill defined way someone thinks that they are a threat to their kids.

Generally I am not given to slippery slope arguments but this is down hill ride if ever I saw one.

Get up, stand up, stand up for your rights.

I agree with sconzey that the CRITICAL element here is to make sure you are well acquainted with the law.
I would approach it with the police – perhaps make an appt to go and see them, with the request that you would like to discuss what the boundaries of the law are so the situation doesn’t happen again. Get them to do their research before you go. And perhaps suggest that when they get a call from a restaurant staffer about a ‘stray’ kid, that an appropriate response would be to ask the staffer ‘have you called their parents?’ Sheesh!
Finally, love the idea about setting up fact sheets on ‘what to do if’, complete with legal info. Perhaps in your spare time, Lenore? 🙂

“To which I countered that there is no law against letting my son go to the park….” Technically, there is, according to an Oregon police man who explained it to me a couple of years ago. (ahem!) Guardians are responsible for the “supervision” of children. So, sure, while we all rode our bikes through the neighborhoods, played in parks and explored the woods as kids, our kids can STILL do that….so long as they don’t get hurt. If they get hurt? THEN we’re liable because we “failed to provide proper supervision.” Essentially, the only way to CYA in the eyes of the law is to hover. sigh…

I’m a little surprised by all the advice of “give your kid a water bottle so he doesn’t have to go to the fast food restaurant again.” Don’t you think that empowering a kid to do things like safely cross a street or buy a bottle of water at an El Pollo Loco is in line with the free-range philosophy?

@ Katie – Yes! Glad someone else thinks so.

The solution is *not* to make the kid invisible by ensuring he doesn’t come into contact with other people. It’s to make it normal for kids to be out on their own again.

Kimberlee,
The fact that the cops had nothing better to do than antagonize you seems to speak to the safety of your community. That or the cops are too lazy to do any real work. Or maybe they were pissed at being called out on something of a false alarm and decided to make something of it.

My advice to Kimberlee: move.

You live in a gated community. These types of fenced off fantasy worlds are breeding grounds for this type of irrational nonsense. I hate to say it, but the reason the police are acting this way is because most of your neighbors want them to. Like you said yourself, most kids aren’t allowed to step outside the gate unattended. Why would you want to live in such a prison?

As I’ve often commented on this site and to others, what you’re experiencing is not universal across all places. Move to a city, where there are people on the street during the day, where kids walk to and from school and take themselves to the park without people raising an eyebrow.

Changing the system is all well and good, and I’m all for it, but I’d also suggest letting the xenophobic suburbanites have their “paradise” and moving someplace better.

“If your son, at eight years old hasn’t been taught NOT to accept food or offers from strangers…”

Your mind must be a very scary and perverted place.

On the other hand, 8 years old is a bit young for alone roaming. It’s probably best for another kid to come along as a “partner in crime”

Also, you are under NO obligation to let the police into your home without a warrant. No good can come of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

I once had a cop tell me it was ” Illegal” for me to have a screen missing from an upstairs bedroom window.

I think it’s a private joke with some of these guys to see how outrageously they can throw their authority around.

I lived in Salt Lake City in the early ’80’s, and there would be very, very young children riding bikes or running around on city streets alone after 10:00 at night. I used to wonder where in the world their parents were – that was a little TOO “free Range”.

Things have changed so much and not necessarily for the better.

http://www.runtobefit.wordpress.com

I am 7 years old and I see all my friends who’s parents handle things different. I race dirt bikes but my Mom won’t let me go down the street alone. Other kids can go wherever they want, but their parents would never allow them to race a dirt bike. Rules are Rules and as you grow up you get used to what you are allowed to do or not do. I think it is a parents choice what they are comfortable with and only the buisness of that family. I am allowed to race, and we talk about how to be safe doing that. My friends that walk to the store have talked to thier parents about the safety with that. I am sure this boy that went to the park knows safety or his mom would not trust him to go.

kanye west is a spoiled na, he needs a good ole ass kicking!

ok no, chill there are various explanations for this, you cant just go off like that, you have to think abou this long term, the reason they made the possibilities of your son getting hurt, the problem is teh law, they are trying to protect businesses, if your son got hurt around pollo loco or whatever, youcould have sewed them, it mmight sound crazy but its true, a robber sewed a person and won because while he was trying to break to her house he fell and cut himself with a knife, and it is kindof dangerouse to let your son alone, they tested you son to see if he was smart enough not to talk to strangers and guess what, not only did he talk to them, he accepted food from them, if he went to get water he should of only gotten water, you set yourself up for that, and i highly doubt you put him in any self defense classes, might as well had a stranger ask him to get in a van, not saying that the police where right, their not, but you arent either, its funny to me. Im a 16 year old kid and yeah i can go by myself cuase i know who to talk to and who not to, black belt at taekwon doe, fast runner, i dont go trusting people like that, and i have my metal claws with me,

So sorry to hear this about the boy. I wish there was something I could say or do to make his mom feel better.

My first instinct on seeing the title to this was post was, “WHOA. CRAZY.” And then I read it and… well, it didn’t seem that crazy. Okay, yes, the police threatening to arrest the mother or the son – that’s pretty ridiculous. But the cops actually being called because there was a young kid unsupervised in a fast food restaurant? That, not so much.

I guess where you let your kids play is kind of dependent on your situation. Growing up, I always played in my yard, but we had a nice sized yard in the suburbs. Occasionally I would walk to the park when I was a little older (probably 11-13), but it was several blocks away: there was no way my parents would have been able to see or hear me if anything crazy HAD happened, so I would not have been allowed to go there alone when I was 8. However, if you’re close enough to a park where you could see and/or hear your child who is playing alone, I see no problem with them going there. A park further away? Send them with friends. And of course, as everyone said, no one can really make these parenting decisions except for you.

I guess my main issue with this is that no, I don’t think everyone should live in a society of fear. But we should accept that there are really creepy, weird people out there; I’ve worked in a retail store in a busy mall since I was 15 (almost 6 years now) and I have seen -a lot- of creepy people that I wouldn’t want alone with my kid. And the thing about a kid being in a fun place like a park or a fast food place, if an adult starts dragging them out and they start crying that they don’t want to go, staff or bystanders might not always think of that as a scary scenario: most kids would cry if they were being asked to leave a park too soon, especially younger kids. There’s also always the risk that your kid might get hurt (I for one was a huge klutz as a kid and now and hurt myself CONSTANTLY at the park), which I’m sure is another reason why cops and most people push for parental supervision.

Again, it’s all pretty situational to where you live, who you are, what your kid is like, etc. I don’t think it’s right to raise your kid in a state of fear, but it is important to be realistic. No, not everyone is out to hurt you. But that doesn’t mean that there aren’t people like that out there, either. My parents raised me that way, and I’m perfectly polite to strangers, even if I might not accept their offer to buy me food. (As a general rule, I don’t really like people buying me things, unless they’re my boyfriend or one of my close friends that I can pay back later. And that’s coming straight from the mouth of a poor college student.)

I think an important thing as a free-range parent is to be visible.

Write to the local police and media, keep on saying, over and over again if you have to, that there is *not* a ‘law against a child of whatever age’ being unaccompanied so that it might, just maybe, sink in one day. Keep telling people that all children will need, sometimes before not too long, to be independent, and it starts with small steps like going to the park or taking a local journey on public transport. Keep telling them that it *isn’t* the case that ‘it’s more dangerous than when we were kids’

If, when my daughter is older, any ‘concerned citizen’ were to call the police on me for my parenting decision, I would be calling the police suggesting that both they and the public need some education and discretion about unaccompanied children and asking please could we sort some kind of liaison out so that police aren’t wasting their time checking up on a kid having fun in the park and the public don’t feel anxious and worried when they see a kid without a parent in sight.

I think, where possible, looking for positive outcomes, such a more informed policing policy about unaccompanied minors, is a good thing to aim for, but I know not everyone will have the energy for that!

This reminds me of my own reaction to an “unaccompanied child” incident. I saw a little girl at the airport, about 3 years old, walking with no one clearly supervising her. I could have called security. Instead, I followed her for a couple of minutes. Turns out her mother was ahead and was so overwhelmed with the amount of baggage she had that he hadn’t noticed the girl had wandered a bit behind.

In this case, you could argue that the mother should have been paying closer attention, but it was not a criminal issue that law enforcement needed to be involved in. I did exactly as a concerned adult should have: I kept an eye on the kid until I was certain her situation was safe, and then I moved on.

Well, by law, you didn’t do anything wrong. Just like most others who are fearful, it’s just their opinion. But being in a position of authority, they are using fear tactics to get you to do what they want. Remember, you still have rights. IF they do arrest you for god knows what they trump up, they would need hard proof that you were endangering your child’s life. If they don’t, they are in deep crap themselves. And really, what CAN’T happen to a 13-14 year old that CAN happen to an 8 year old? For that matter, what can’t happen to an adult that can happen to an 8 year old? Nothing. If anyone wanted to do harm to someone else (child or adult) they will find a way to do it. In real world, it all depends on how the person deals with the situation in hand. If your 8 year old child knows how to respond and react to situations around him, I doubt that his age would be a factor. I say keep letting him go out, but as Lenore suggested, and some have done also, give him a phone, and a note. But most of all, make sure he’s well educated in being on his own outside the house. Don’t give in to other people’s fears. There is nothing wrong with your philosophy. And trust me when I say this, just because your a cop, a teacher, a senator, or any other position of authority, your not infallible. If any decision is based on fear, with no logic and common sense, it’s always a bad decision. Kinda scary considering there are cops all over the world who think like this.

The fact that he went to El Pollo Loco for a drink may have been an annoyance, but it’s not a crime. And no one forced the stranger to get involved. I dislike living in a society where annoyances are dealt with by calling the police.

As someone who works in law enforcement, I think a couple of things should be said that readers are overlooking:

1) Whether there is a specific statute or ordinance prohibiting an 8 year old from playing in a public place unattended by a parent is somewhat besides the point. The real cultural problem here is the “nannified” adult who takes it upon themselves to mind everyone else’s business for them. The adult who had a problem with an unattended 8 year old made it the problem for the police when they called the police.

The police necessarily operate with a “community caretaker” doctrine, meaning that they are obligated to respond to situations that observant citizens feel require a response. Other similar situations include a small child left unattended in a car temporarily parked curbside while the parent runs a quick errand, or a pet left unattended inside a vehicle on a hot day, even if the windows are opened.

It is a matter of liability for the officer to fail to respond, fail to identify the child, and fail to ensure the child is reunited with a parent or guardian once it has been made an official problem by someone else. Free-Range parents and kids need to be aware that MANY others in the public don’t share their comfort zone due to paranoia, over-exposure to negative news, and being unable to wipe their own noses.

2) Based point #1, Free-Range parents need to be VERY educated about statutes surrounding child welfare in their jurisdiction. It may very well be within the law for an 8 year-old to be on their own, however that does NOT mean it is necessarily always advisable or prudent. Also, just because a statute is not specific about what is the “age of independence” (most states will not define this separate from the age of majority) does not mean that a parent might not be regarded as neglectful depending on the overall circumstances.

I agree that a meeting with the Chief of Police is very important in a situation like this, because the rights of parents and children do need to be clearly defined against the common over-reactions regarding child welfare issues. Consulting an attorney conversant in family law would also be a prudent thing to do. Likewise, if the officer was indeed out of bounds, the Chief should be made aware and have the opportunity to train their personnel accordingly.

In this situation, the officer might have been trying to over-prescribe some parental common-sense at their own discretion. On the other hand, the parent might well have been considered in violation of a local child welfare provision. I do not know, and neither to the other readers who are quick to criticize the police in this situation.

There has been a frightening increase in police arrogance since 9/11 and it is getting worse as brain-damaged veterans of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars are joining the country’s police forces. And, of course, this sort of police state action is supported by the very people who prattle endlessly about getting the government out of peoples’ lives.

It’s not kind to speak ill of law enforcement. But let me continue anyway.

The average cop has a power ego to which he/she is simply used to people taking his advice. They get to a point where they think their insight and opinion is actually useful to the rest of humanity who, without their authoritative presence, would simply wilt away into a morass of chaos and anarchy.

Except it ain’t true.

The officer who lectured this poor mother apparently thought he had some deep and abiding clue as to how to be a good parent. He likely lectures people to whom he writes speeding tickets (instead of just simply writing a ticket), probably chit chats with other cops about the daily drama of his life, and in general, is a shell of a man.

First, short of a direct violation of law, he has no business talking to any citizen other than to investigate a crime. In this case, it is limited to, “Is this your son?” and “We responded because some clown inside The Crazy Chicken thought he was abandoned. Have a good day.”. That’s it. Anything else is a waste of taxpayer dollars and is a commission of fraud by this officer. A real cop, that is to say, one who cared about the true safety of its citizens, would leave the non-crime as quickly as possible to go and find some real criminals. But this boyish officer felt more in control berating a woman alone than to face down a dangerous criminal. Shameful. Had I been there I would have told him to get lost.

I don’t know how these stories make it in the wild without the officer’s full name. Let’s get it on record. If he even is a parent (doubtful), let’s make sure it’s archived in Google forever for any future incident of his own so-called parenting skills.

I’m waiting with baited breath…

“Officer’s son vandalizes a dozen cars!”

Quote from the story: “I just wanted some breathing room,” exclaimed the pensive boy. “My dad has followed me around like a bloodhound since I could crawl. I guess I just didn’t know how to handle my newly found freedom at 14 years old and went a little crazy. I saw the rocks and those shiny windows and couldn’t help myself. It was my first time in the wild. I couldn’t believe Dad had let me just walk up the street by myself… the fresh air, the lack of footsteps behind me, the silence of not having him tell me how to walk or to slow down or speed up. I guess Dad was right – I simply can’t handle the freedom. I’m just going to ask everyone’s forgiveness and go back home and live there until I’m 29 years old. Someplace safe from all this risk and danger in the world. No one really gets hurt playing XBox in my bedroom.”)

Personally, I would have taken the jail option. Break these crackpot officers and their out-of-control departments. You want to arrest her, officer? Arrest all of us. Seriously. We are the ones who set the laws. Not you.

All the parents of Kymlee’s town ought to go to that same park next week and send all their 8-year olds over to get water from Pollo Loco at the SAME TIME.

By the way, did anyone happen to ask the manager of Pollo Loco what he thinks about the police officer’s suggestion that parents should be dumping off 13 and 14-year olds unattended in that restaurant? I’ll bet a #1 combo that management would prefer the 8-year olds any day of the week.

Something I have learned very painfully over the years of having seven children and homeschooling is that “well meaning people” are always the ones that do the most harm thinking they are doing the right thing.

The fear that a lot of people have been conditioned to live in scares me. It really does. Because of other people’s fears if we are taking the kids out somewhere he tells them to get a shower (even if they have already had one), put on clean and unstained clothing and brush their hair. I could care less if I took the kids into a store or something at the end of the day and they are covered in dirt and grass or paint or whatever. Kids, if they are allowed to be kids, get dirty. It’s a fact of life. It’s not my fault if people have forgotten this. They are the ones with a problem, not me.

No matter what someone does, someone else somewhere is going to be unhappy with that decision and they are going to act upon it. When that comes to anything dealing with parenting that means the police and/or CPS are going to end up getting involved, and when it comes to CPS if you are neglectful is based on someones judgment of you, their mood that day and if they have decided if they like your attitude that day and not law. That is where the problem comes in and why it’s so easy for the cops to police by scare tactics. Society seems to think that one size fits all parenting should happen and that it should be based on the soccer mom model of parents setting up play dates instead of letting kids find other kids in the neighborhood, having a park day where you spend the day in the park watching your kids, organized sports and activities with kids their own age and almost every day the kid has a different class or event and forth where at the end of the day the parent has spent more time in the car playing chauffeur to their kid(s) than anything else. Those of us who don’t do that are seen as trouble makers and the scourge of the planet and we must have the fear of the worst case possible scenario instilled upon us where we conform.

I am with everyone else, be armed with the local laws/ordinances where you live and crime statistics. Check your local sex offender registry where you know where those people live. If you can, give your son a phone where he can call you if something happens. Give him a water bottle to take to the park with him where he doesn’t end up being put in the same position again from someone well meaning busybody. Remind him not to accept any offers of anything from anyone he doesn’t know. Unfortunately we have to meet societies mindset half way.

First I want to say that I love this blog, and believe whole heartedly in its message. Raised a free range child, and nanny of several wonderful families I believe I have enough knowledge to speak my mind on this.

We live in fear based, police state society that only increases in its ‘protectiveness’ daily. And what will it produce. Weak, fear based citizens. Our jobs as parents, nannies, and guardians is to prepare children for the world. Which can be ugly and cruel even in the best of places. People can pretend all they want, and secure themselves in their houses and make their kids paranoid fearful creatures just like themselves. But its not going to fix the world, or protect your child. Actually it is more dangerous for them that way. Danger can come from anywhere and can even come into your well guarded little home.

The solution? Prepare your children in a way that is appropriate for their age. When a four year old thinks their old enough to ‘run away from home’ then their old enough to know about predators. And what to do in case they are confronted about one. I knew at that age, and it wasn’t too much for me. I also roamed the streets in a not so great neighborhood. But I had been taught well and felt empowered and strong. It’s the best thing you can do for your kids. Prepare them as if you won’t be there to always protect them, because in all reality, who knows if you will?

By the way, in regards to Soldier’s Mail comment above, I agree wholeheartedly with his point #1 – nosey citizens who haven’t the ability, time, or decency to take two seconds to figure out a situation before picking up their stupid cell phones and calling 9-1-1. Lame, oh-so-fully lame.

I don’t know what kind of inept adult can’t talk to an 8-year old enough to figure out if his mommy is nearby, but apparently the dingbat at El Pollo Loco was the spitting definition of one. 9-1-1 calls are public information and it would be awesome to hear those would-be guardian of the republic calling 9-1-1 with his so-called “tip”. Where was he when the cops arrived? Did he stay and protect the forlorn child? Or did he just place a call and ride away with a smug face?

I think we all understand that when some jackwad calls 9-1-1 for almost anything, that an officer has to respond. That’s why I support fully the idea of an internet site that lists the 9-1-1 calls but sorted by caller so that people can see who is clogging up our systems. It’s gotta be the same 10 people in every town. Let’s go get them.

I think some officers, however, just love to talk. They get there and apparently can’t discern within 60 seconds that it’s a non-issue. So they chat, and lecture, and sometimes threaten, and sometimes ask dumb questions like “Did you know you could be arrested for ______ ?”. (I really wonder if they ask real criminals that question: “Did you know you could be arrested for armed robbery, sir?”).

They basically just waste time until the end of their shift. I’m convinced I could respond to twice as many calls per shift as the average office – and probably make twice the arrests. That’s the only way these lazy, uninformed officers are ever going to drift off… when they stop thinking they can keep their $27,500 and do nothing. That’s the real crime.

question for Soldier’s Mail, do you think a parent’s note indicating the child is allowed to be out and about themselves would have helped in this situation?

I’m so sick of FEAR TACTICS!!! I feel all these stories of child safety are really about making it seem like the state are the only ones that can be trusted, more so than a child’s actual parents.

I don’t think it’s any more dangerous now than it was in the 70s and 80s when I was a kid. And running around all day alone or with friends (and without a cell phone) made me an independent, strong, self-reliant person.

The only thing that has changed is hysteria.
And these cops should have been reminded about the rule of law and about civil liberties. Whatever is not illegal does not warrant their intervention. Representatives of the state are no better suited per se to judge what is good for a child than the parents.

Teenagers go to parks to smoke. Well, I did and so did my friends.
Children actually go to play. They are criminalizing youth.

Haha, wow! Aren’t you an awesome parent! I wish my parents would let me walk outside at the park alone without any supervision! My parents are very overprotective.

Please, let me whine here…

They don’t let me walk around the neighborhood for some exercise.

They wont let me play outside unless one of them is watching, and if I do walk outside, it has to be either with a friend or an adult, (with a cell phone and them calling me every 2 seconds)

I never once walked home from school, always got driven or on the bus.

I can never hang out with friends outdoors alone, like the mall, park, etc. (once again, without being watched or supervised) Sadly, this makes me a very unsocial kid.

And… even one time when I thought I was actually alone outside, there my dad was driving in his car along the street stalking me pretending to be a regular old car.

AND THE WORST OF ALL… I can never spend anytime with my girlfriend without my parents supervising. My girlfriend hates it. She’s probably gonna dump me because of this.

My parents think my age is STILL too young to be alone outside because of the danger of, “You might get kidnapped or hurt!” It’s kinda sad because I am way older than your son. I have been waiting years for my freedom! Perhaps too long! Gosh, I am such a big “kid” now that next year I am getting my drivers license! For years I have been saying all the time, “When and how old do I have to be to walk outside alone?” They say, “Oh soon. Don’t worry. When you get older.” Perhaps you wouldn’t call me a kid anymore. Haha. I am in between if you know what I mean. Gosh. I can’t wait until I get my car and just drive away and do stuff. There and then, is when I will get my freedom. Don’t call me crazy, it just makes me upset seeing and knowing that the other kids my age are allowed to do anything they want.

Your probably wondering, haven’t you figured out any ways to get some freedom with your parents? Do you go to therapy in order to fix your parents’ overprotective disorder?

Yes, you could say I have begged, pleaded, stated reasonable reasons, stated convincing stories, to try to get them to say the precious word “Yes” but it is always NO. I never once snuck out of the house to get freedom because I am afraid I will get caught. Also, because I am a good kid. (I have a heart) Besides there is like no chance anyways because my parents are pretty much watching everything I do. And No, the family and I don’t go to therapy.

I am not a bad kid. I get excellent grades. Man, now I am thinking I SHOULD sneak out of the house to be free! I should have been doing this for years now! My neighborhood is kinda strange because, it is hard to tell if it is safe or not. It is the neighborhood that is right next to a neighborhood that is VERY VERY dangerous. Drugs, gang violence, strangers, horrible stories that get in the papers. But yet my neighborhood is safe because it is in a suburban area, with TOP of the CLASS schools. There never once has been any case of violence here, the grass is green, and the community is maintained well. There are always some kids walking around. I think everyone here is just afraid all that horrible stuff from the neighborhood next door is going to pass down here.

On the other hand, your son is a bit too young, but no big deal due to the reasons you stated in your article. It is kinda odd seeing a little kid wander on his own with this “Fearful” society going on, but I do think the police freaked out too much in your case because they remind me of my parents. All I am going to say is to just have him NOT talk to strangers and you should possibly give him a cell phone.

@Anonymous
All I can say is “It gets better”

At the very least, at 18, the legal landscape changes completely. I know, in teen-years that’s an eternity. Or at least 20% of your life. But do remember there is a light at the end of that tunnel.

What ever happened to protect and serve? Not harass and molest?

I have a Pavlovian fear of COPs simple because of that inch of authority some of them take to a mile or two.

I’ve found the fear tactics and news produced by local government and the mass media are what make this such a “climate” of fear. And it’s manufactured.

She is correct, all the data says our “times’ are the lowest in crime, abductions, rape and murder. (Not counting the casualties caused by the war on drugs)

You have to look at the big picture. If we allow our children to become strong willed and do things on their own, they’ll never conform to the nanny control systems set in place to manage the sheeple.

It take great courage to do what you guys do and I applaud it.

Perhaps those police officers should be asking themselves…”why aren’t the streets safe enough for an EIGHT yr old?”

—
“When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny.”; – Thomas Jefferson

Haha, See I’d be the smart ass kid and I would tell the cops…” My parents told me not to talk to strangers…and you’re a stranger!”-

I am one of seven children (now grown) and there is no way my mother knew where we each were at every moment. I had a tendency to wander around the neighborhood and beyond, especially when I could grab an available bike. I used to cross the highway and go to the grocery store to by books and card games for myself when I was not much older than Kimberlee’s son. My younger sister and I would cross the highway to buy breakfast at Hardees on Saturday morning as a treat for ourselves. Never once were we treated as though our business wasn’t wanted just because we were kids (see Melissa’s statement just above the video post.)
Am I glad we didn’t have helicopter parents. As a matter of fact, the worst trouble my siblings and I caused was on our own street. We were much better behaved when allowed to roam and enjoy the journey.
-Jennifer
http://sasfiction.wordpress.com

Um does this woman know what kind of world she lives in now? The boy is 8 he should not be anywhere by himself. It was stupid on her part to even let him do such. Just because he wasn’t kidnapped this time doesn’t mean he couldn’t have been kidnapped.

What a horrible mother.

Crazy people….i don’t understand why everyone is so scared of this days

devianteyes, by your logic, you should never get in a car. After all “just because you weren’t killed by a car crash today, doesn’t mean you won’t be.” It’s called risk-evaluation and it will save your sanity.

And Herb, were you the gentleman in question? Is that why you deem it important to be thanked for nosy intrusiveness? Sure, maybe the guy was concerned. But 8 year olds are remarkably verbal creatures, generally able to speak clearly enough for the average adult to understand. A short conversation would have cost the guy little to nothing and saved the community some tax dollars and the mother some stress.

@devianteyes: I think you are posting on the wrong blog. The blog to complain about those horrible free-range parents is over somewhere by the helicopter moms seating area.

It’s really sad that this happened. If someone had offered me a gift of food at that age, I would have accepted it too. My sister used to walk up the street to the house at the end of the block, walk into the house, and accept food at any time from them (my mother was mortified; she did it almost every day).

The cops over-reacted. Period. However, I think Kimberlee should talk to the chief. Perhaps not right away; a cooling off period may be needed! But, she needs to be able to stress her child was safe, is not neglected, and the officer had NO right to speak to her in the manner in which he did.

There are many places where the COPS are the problem, esp if you aren’t white.Things a white person gets “talked to” over will get a hispanic arrested, or get a black a beating. Its disgusting. I’m white and have seen this rascist attitude so many times. It only takes a few cops to terrorize a whole area.

This important to know- a white, middle class mom can challenge a cop with little fear of retailiation, but a black mom cannot- she is more likely to get arrested or have CPS called. All white parents better stand up for free range, we are the only ones who can get away with it in many places.

Never let cops in your home, even when you have nothing to hide. Its not in your best interest to even talk to them. Be polite, and get away as soon as you can.Most are OK, but all it takes is ONE.

As for El Pollo Loco, so what if the kid asks for water? That is pretty smart of him. If they don’t want to give it to him, they can say NO, and post signs if too many kids ask. I also don’t see the big deal over the guy offering food, and the kid taking it. Its a public place, so what if he gets a free snack as long as he doesn’t leave with whomever bought the food. The guy jumped the gun by calling the cops, but he isn’t evil and shouldn’t be treated as such.

I would send the kid right back out. No one did anything wrong, changing your behavior is letting the scaremongers win!!!

@Charlie, you are such a douche. Try backing up your baseless assertions with facts. Not as much fun as being a brainless idiot but there really is no excuse these days what with Google and all. Ignorance is an eminently curable disease.

There are many places where the COPS are the problem, esp if you aren’t white, says Stacey.

Stacey..you have ZERO clue of the rate of black and illegal crimes against whites, you are projecting some serious racism there dear.

I gave up on having kids in that sick, twisted world.

Let’s just close all the parks and build junk food joints on them. The cops will have one less thing to worry about.

I was surprised when I visited my brother in Japan and his young daughters got on the trains and subways at all hours of day and night and went to concerts, parties, etc. alone. They had a phone and checked in with their parents from time to time. It was wonderful to see how independent they were at a young age and how they were learning to negotiate new situations by themselves.

I know we overact in the US thinking that every news story is happening in our own neighborhood, but I was very surprised by this story. This societal hysteria can’t be good for our children!

My children are grown, and in their 20s traveled the world on wonderful adventures. At times I when they were out of communication for days, I was concerned, but thank god I didn’t stop them from having these experiences because “something” could have happened to them.

@thmadjewess
Just because someone doesn’t agree with you doesn’t mean they are on the other side of the political spectrum. Free range is non-partisan. Liberal and conservative aren’t dirty words.

I’m 25 years old and very disheartened by all this as I’m just at the age to start having kids. When I was 8 I walked to and from school by myself, everyday. I walked to my friends’ houses, played at the neighborhood park alone or with other kids, heck I even did gymnastics and flips on the lawn without supervision. And I’m fine. When I was 10 I started taking the subway to and from school everyday in Toronto and NEVER had an incident.

I think everyone needs to give kids a lot more credit. They’re smarter than we think they are…and I really think it’s up to parents to judge that and at what age their kids are able and ready to do what.

Kimberlee Morrison your not alone!

We all are grateful to the Good Samaritan, BUT then he/she with their over concern or paranoia instead of watching from a distance, as they should if they are so concerned, involve themselves with our children and create situations where there are none. The Good Samaritan who cannot get passed the uncomfortably they are feeling or the need to play the hero to fulfill some sense of self-importance, calls the police and demands a response. As much as we like to think this is the land of the free, it is NOT. Accept it, a child’s mere presence can be construed as a disturbance to some member of society. Our children are not allowed the liberty of being at one with nature in public spaces. Yes, our parks and streets should be safe places; after all, it is our taxes that pay for the police to ensure safety to ALL citizens, including those young and old enjoying the outdoors, the ones who need the most protection. Our children should be outdoors, away from the television, the Internet, and the snacks, getting exercise, fresh air, and sunlight. Just think what spending more time outdoors would do for children health issues, specifically: childhood obesity and depression.

Hi – love your post albeit makes me sad for all our 8 year olds. Some of us can remember freedom to play as children without fear. Now the parents have fear inflicted upon them by the authorities who’s job it should be to protect our children. Hope you don’t mind I have included a link to your blog on my site as I thought it too important.

I realize that these cases of child abduction are rare but in Northern Illinois in the early 80s it happened. Brian Dugan did just that to a little girl riding her bike. I remember it nearly 30 years later and it horrifies me.

Perhaps people my age remember this just as much as they might remember an abusive uncle or cousin. Brian Dugan was a real bogeyman along with Gacy, Dahmer, and others who preyed on others.

I am not saying Kimberlee was wrong for what she did. It is hard figuring out when do you allow a child more freedom.

What I am saying is that there is precedence for this over-cautious behavior and to pretend otherwise is just as rude and thoughtless as well-meaning people calling the police or truant officer.

The issue of the cops themselves has been treated many times in this comments section —  some say they were just trying to do their job, more have said, and very accurately, that they *weren’t* doing the job cops are hired to do.

But please hear this: no matter what their motives, no matter what kind of day it was for them, no matter what they were trying to accomplish, the plain and simple fact is this:

They were abusing their power.

The writer says, “By law, he is old enough to be alone, but the police insisted that the only reason I wasn’t going to jail is because they had decided it wasn’t necessary.”

Wrong, wrong, wrong! If she’d done something illegal, she should have been punished, and if she’d done something legal, she shouldn’t have been. Here we have officers of the law sitting around making up law on the spot and deciding whether or not to enforce it. It’s very very obvious here that, whatever their intentions, harassment and abuse of power were most definitely the result.

They should be held to account for their actions, and be made to see that this should never happen again.

Generally speaking, I see this as yet another case of the kind of over-protection that on the balance does more harm than good. By analogy, if a boy climbs a tree, there is some small risk that he falls and breaks an arm. If he never is allowed to climb a tree, he will suffer other damages, including not learning a skill, not improving his motor functions, not learning to handle heights, … (Disclaimer: There may be a background story in this particular case that I a not aware of, e.g. a local serial kidnapper.)

More specifically, I can point to a similar experience in my own past: As a young child, I enjoyed walking in the neighbourhood, including past the pre-school locaated roughly 500 meters from my home along a straight street. When I, age 6, was enrolled in that pre-school, I was forbidden by the staff from walking to and from it on my own—which forced my mother to go out of her way to deliver me in the morning and collect me in the afternoon… This despite my having walked this very route on countless earlier occasions. (The explanation for this absurdity, I suspect, was one of legal responsibility for any hypothetical incidents on the way to and from school, which the school wanted to duck. It could also have been sheer idiocy, however.)

FINALLY I find this blog!

I’m 23 but luckily enough was raised pretty free-range compared to a lot of others I know. Pretty much I had 3 rules growing up:

1) Don’t swim without adults (we had a lake, complete with poisonous snakes)

2) Don’t bother the old people by barging into their houses.

3) Never talk to Eric the Pedophile. Period.

We actually did have one of those nasty pedophiles, only he’s in prison again- he is a child predator. However, my parents still allowed us to wander about the neighborhood, so long as we followed the rules. (Unfortunately, both of my parents are now well enough inundated with the media that they would never allow it to happen again.)

Could something have happened? Yes? Did it? No. (And Eric the Pedophile was caught in another place, going into a boy’s camp, which was supposedly well supervised.)

I have noticed that since I wasn’t so scared as a child, now as an adult I have no fear to be alone!

Case in point: I had a Tokyo class trip, and all the other students were completely lost without our Prof. They honestly had no clue what to do (he ended up being stuck in traffic) and wouldn’t even leave to go eat. Keep in mind we’re all adults, age-wise. Only me and one other person had absolutely no fear to find our own food, our own trains, and our own sleeping arrangements- it was just another adventure.

So for the Mothers and Fathers out there “free-ranging” their kids, GO FOR IT!

I plan on “free-ranging” my own kids, after I’m married and having them. I may not be as “free-range” as some people, depending on where I live, but I definitely see the benefits.

Wow…that’s crazy. I remember being six or seven and walking, on my own, to the library daily. It was a good 20 minute walk, but I did it without any problems. I knew to scream if I needed to, and not talk to strangers. There were rules, of course. Since this was before cell phones, I always grabbed a dollar in change from a jar by the door, told my grandmother (who raised me) that I was on my way to the library. When I got there, I was required to use the pay phone to call my grandma and let her know I was there. I was also required to call her when I left.

The librarians also knew of these rules, and made sure to verify I’d called home, and then reminded me to call her on my way out.

I can’t believe that the cops told her it wouldn’t be appropriate for her child to be on his own at the park until he was a teen.

everyone here is very into allowing your kids to roam free…not a bad thing – i’d like to think that i’ll be like that too when i have my own. BUT i do have to point out that, had Kimberlee’s son been kidnapped or assaulted, the police would have been to blame on these forums i’m sure.

the cops are damned if they do and damned if they don’t – it’s a tough job, but did anyone stop to ask if they were doing this because there may be some child predators in the area? they didn’t know your kid was allowed to roam around free – and at 8 years old, they may know not to take food or candy from strangers (which Kimberlee’s kid did NOT know not to do according to the story) but can they fight off an adult that’s at least twice as big as they are?

whatever your child rearing philosophy – the cops were doing their jobs (ok maybe not so much with the checking out your home), and it’s a thankless job at that. they’re trying to keep your kids safe, cut them some slack and don’t blame them if something happens to the kid.

This is a sad commentary on where parenting has ended up in the United States. I live in Uganda now, with my 4 1/2 year old son, and there are kids younger than him carrying their younger siblings along the side of the road with no parents in sight. Somehow, they survive. Parenting in the US is now an act based on fear, and if we don’t move beyond that, all we will teach our kids is that the world is a dangerous place and that they should never trust anybody. Is that the world we want to be a part of?

Chani Yes day-in/day-out they see the worst in society, but as a parent, what does that have to be with me? Nothing, that’s what. Why should I edit my parenting principles and sell them down the river because some police-person sees the worst of society everyday? I’m sorry that’s the case, but they choose it; and frankly, they’re not the only ones who have a tough job.

I mean, really–ALL people to some extent have a tough job. The cashier at Burger King listening to you bitch & moan because they forgot pickles on your burger, even if the cashier heard you correctly & punched it in correctly. He has to listen to you gripe about “you people here can’t do a damn thing right, you’re nothing but a bunch of retards” and can’t say anything back, I don’t envy it.

In fact, I used to work in that very capacity years ago, but it didn’t make it right for me to be so pessimistic about the worldand have a bad attitude.

And you’re paranoid, that’s obvious–so? Other people here, thankfully, aren’t, and don’t need to listen to you lecture them about how “the world is a very dangerous place” (on what do you base this, in fact?) and how you can’t imagine letting your kids out of your sight for 2 seconds. Parent your children thusly, that’s your right–and it’s our right to NOT parent our children that way.

And no, we DON’T want to hear a lecture from some donut muncher who thinks his bad day & seeing parenting principles at play he doesn’t agree with–but are legal–give him the right to act like a total jackass and prick to a mother who has the good sense to let your child–egads!–have an actual childhood. She didn’t ask for his (the policeman’s) opinion on how she should parent her children, and unless the child is really in danger (e.g., the mother is going upside his head with a wood plank or there’s molestation etc) the policeman needs to shut his mouth and go back to munching on Boston-Kreme filled jelly pastries and sucking on a cup of fake coffee (or–here’s a thought–catching real criminals) and leave us parents the hell alone.

LRH

Dang-ed typos.

Near the beginning: I meant to say “but as a parent, what does that have to do with me?”

Also, near the end, I meant to say “to a mother who has the good sense to let her child…”

I was very lucky enough to have enjoyed a free-range childhood and I honestly believe that I’m a better person for it. My mum didn’t hover over me incessantly and had the good judgement to allow me to make my own mistakes and to find out what was and wasn’t dangerous for myself.

I’ve come to the belief that parenting is an individual practice and that the opinions and fears of others shouldn’t dictate how another’s child is raised – I know that I’ll not be letting what others think influence my parenting style when I have kids and I applaud you for having adopted the approach you have. I only hope that you don’t let a hysterical culture of fear and panic override your natural instincts as a parent.

Since when did police have any idea about how to raise children. In Australia we have this increasing nanny state mentality whereby they make laws to prevent people doing things when it should be their own decision.
Excited to find your blog and will follow you on twitter

Dear Kimberlee,

Perhaps we need to remember the FDR quote, “the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.” While President Roosevelt was specifically talking about the economy, and today that seems appropriate enough, the axiom applies to most aspects of life. A parent attempting to raise a “free-range” child may only have their immediate situation in mind, but understanding the motivation of officials, and people in general, will better arm us in dealing with the inevitable conflicts that arise.

First off, we need to remember the gentleman acted out of concern and called the police. Misguided concern to say the least, but his heart was in the right place. Secondly, we want the police to get involved when citizens report events they perceive as dangerous. For them to act otherwise surly will end with unacceptable consequences. Given this, what was really the problem ¬ — perceiving a child alone as being in danger by simply being alone.

Fear has long been a tool to gain an individual’s compliance with the norms of society. The easiest way to stop a behavior is to instill fear of its outcome. Simply look at the political environment today for many examples. Even worse, once indoctrinated by fear, individuals spread that fear-belief without really knowing what they are doing. This is how peer pressure works. It has the ability to make the unreasonable seem legitimate and we apply the same pressure placed on us to others. This is how we have ended up in a place where it is thought “dangerous” to allow a child to play unsupervised.

Only when we have the temerity to question such pressure do we see there is simply anecdotal proof, or worse, no poof at all, for the basis of such fear. After all, children who refuse to smoke due to peer pressure are not ostracized; they are simply accepted once the group grows weary of trying to convert them.

Stand your ground! It sounds like you are raising a well-balanced human being. One that has the strength to stand on his one two feet and engage his brain. It is time we end the “herd mentality” society seems to demand of us. That will require conflict with authority from time to time, so be it. You are not being reckless with your child’s safety, you are simply allowing him to grow up being something other than a lemming heading for a cliff.

I may only be a teenager, but even I think it’s ridiculous. Children should be allowed to go to the park by themselves. As long as they’ve been taught safety and stuff like that, they should be fine.

There is nothing to be gained from wrapping children in cotton wool, except for kids who are too scared to do anything because they might get a tiny little scratch. Same with keeping them inside all day every day, because of something that MIGHT happen.

What is the world coming to?

I am all for giving kids more interpretation. I have many wonderful memories of exploring my neighborhood, and green belts/small forests in the area. BUT my mom taught me not to talk to strangers and NEVER accept food/treats from them.

Perhaps this mom should be actually teaching the kid how to take care of himself before setting him free range? This may be why the person called the police because the kid clearly was not demonstrating even BASIC knowledge of safety?

I think that letting your kid out without is this kind of knowledge/skills is negligent parenting. Its a shame that this post got freshly pressed because this really is a bad example of good free range parenting…if the goal is to make kids self reliant, this kid clearly is not.

@tanya – Your husband’s logic is a strawman. Crime has gone down across the board, so no, it’s not because parents are just more cautious.

Also, be careful about the conclusions you draw from the registry. First of all, can you easily determine why those people are on the registry (many states don’t make that info easily known)? It’s actually more likely that they’re a danger to you and not your kids. And consider this – you know where these guys live because they are actually behaving themselves and trying not to go back to jail by complying with their sentence.

@everyone who says we’re hypocrites regarding the cops – You’re right, I would call the cops, or be thankful for their help if something did actually happen to my child. That’s what they are there for. However, doing things like threatening jail time when nothing illegal was actually done is abuse of the position and should be called out. Cops, the military, and government officials serve us (civilians are treated as higher rank in the military, and are respected as such). It’s not just our right, but our duty to be critical of them and make sure they’re not abusing their position.

@everyone – Think an 8 year old can’t do anything? If you’re in the Great Lakes region, I highly recommend you find your local Amish community and see what the children do a 8. If you’re not fortunate enough to live near an Amish community, I have several trial codes for Netflix, so you can stream this film about the Amish. You want an example of free range? It’s not uncommon for four and five year olds to be driving their own buggies down the road, often with no adult in sight. By 8, boys are typically working the fields with their fathers, and girls cooking meals with their mothers, or collecting things from the store. This isn’t in some far-off country like Uganda or Argentina, this is in the heartland of America.

Kids are only incompetent about most things because their environment has kept them that way.

PS my apology for the bold I only meant to bold-faced the first word. )(The “tag” failed to turn it off.) Pardon my shouting.

to me it depends. How free range? How long are the kids allowed to go out? all day? then its just a cop out to not be a parent and Just asking for trouble! For a bike ride or park…1) depends on where you live? right by a highway….where everyone knows you? where everyone doesnt? where there is a drug problem? do you trust everyone around you? 2)Is your kid out and causing harm…being rude or being a pest to others? how is his maturity level? do you really trust him or is it the “my son wouldn’t do anything” attitude. I can understand the police officers concern…As I got older…my free range was extended…but I wasn’t allowed to go cross town or pass crazy streets alone. Free range should be about safety in ALL areas….not
just when its convenient for Mom.

(also, the cop probably knows who lives down the street, just saying)

You should question this sense-less philosophy! In this day and age of child predators what’s wrong with being better safe than sorry?? Allowing a child to be independent is TOTALLY different from being a careless parent who lets their child roam the streets. Why is okay for ur son to accept food from a stranger? Had that been a predator, would u believe in this “free-range” parenting? If the park is DIRECTLY across the street from your house, then I see no problem allowing him to go alone. It’s 2010, the idea of “nothing ever happens here” should be dead along with cassette tapes! It is total negligence on the your part as a parent to instruct your child to NOT accept food from strangers. And if you are not concerned about predators in your area, how about child bully’s??? I always am sad to see children walking alone who are underage and defenseless, bc they are prey to whoever is out there. It’s not a paranoia, it’s common sense

Are you people out of your mind?
Yes, that cop comes across as being a jerk, but he’s simply doing his job, and that man that gave him the food? You’re damn lucky he wasn’t a pedo. I understand wanting to teach your kids self-reliance, but self-reliance won’t save an eight year old child from being raped and killed by one of the many sick bastards that are out there. It’s your boys job to understand when it’s safe to cross the street, but it’s your job to keep him safe from monsters. Obviously your not doing a very good job, because in his innocense, he assumed the man that offered him food was just doing a nice thing, when in reality, you ought to be teaching your child to not accept anything from a total stranger.
So is your concern over keeping your child “free-range” more a concern over your own personal freedom, so you as a parent can be “free-range”? To be able to send your child off on his own and be able to do as you damn well please?

And on another note, no, there is no law against letting your child play outside WITH PARENTAL SUPERVISION. There are laws against neglagence, however, and should something horrible of happened to your boy, you would be charged accordingly, because it’s your responsibilty to watch him.

@Michaeleriksson: Some are overblown, but that doesn’t over shadow those that aren’t. I spent seven years with a man with whom I had two children with, and I come to find out later on down the road that he was arrested a while back AS AN ADULT for the repeated molestation and sodomy of a SIX YEAR OLD member of his family. This was someone I thought I knew and trusted, that I had two little girls with. So tell me, is that overblown? Is that “hysteria”? How I found out was from a police officer who was, brace yourself, doing his job.

@ully My point was to show that people – right or wrong – have a reason for their fears. And it is not like this stuff still does not go on in our times. Elizabeth Smart’s kidnapper is on trial for her abduction that was only eight years ago. There were stories in the news THIS YEAR about people trying to abduct kids on their way to school.

In my own little town of 1300 that resembles a Northern version of Mayberry, we had a person arrested and convicted for child molestation. He lived down the street from me, with his kids who were close in age to mine. Subsequent stories in the newspaper pointed out that my town has a registered sex offender on every block of the villiage. Tell me that doesn’t ratchet up the fear factor in your heart and I will show you a liar.

I am not saying I think what Kimberlee did with her son was wrong. Plus, I think she got a raw deal from officers who might be on a power trip. I do think kids need to learn to be independant and responsible. They need to learn how to handle themselves in the world.

Do not judge people for what makes them frightened. I might not like this over cautious and germ-free world some people are trying to create. But nor am I going to doubt that their fears are without reason or call them crazy for having them. Sometimes you have to gently bring people back from the ledge.

@graceandtheserpent – Make note that he knew the kids. Abduction or attack by someone the victim knows is not the “stranger danger” hysteria. Statistically speaking, your children have more to fear from you abducting or abusing them than they are from anyone else doing so.

@notesfromrumbleycottage – Elizabeth Smart was abducted from her own room, in a locked house, with parents a room or two over. Context is everything.

As for the child molestor in your town, see my comment to grace.

Marsha – I’m glad that I don’t live in the scary place where you live. I live in Piedmont, across the street from Oakland. My kids walk to the store, in Oakland. They rides their bike through Oakland. The hang out at the AT&T store in Oakland (trying to convince me to buy them iPhones, but that’s a different story).

Fortunately for me and them, all of these activities are safe for an 8 year old where I live.

@Jill
>All those of you who are trashing the police would be talking out of the other side of your mouths if your child were actually lost/endangered and the police were the ones to safely retrieve them.

Well, of course. When the police are doing the job they are paid to do, they should be praised. Just like anyone else. That does not give them the right to harass people with threats of jail for things that aren’t even against the law.

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Uly Right on. Sometimes I think I should just zip my typing fingers and let YOU respond. Your points are so dead-on and so well articulated. Way to go.

LRH

The Therapeutic State — to use Thomas Szasz’s term — protects us all. It won’t be long until non-intensive parenting is discovered to be a mental defect, if it hasn’t already happened.

Government has mandated universal mental health screening for kids. No doubt unapproved parenting methods will be subject to scrutiny. The woman is right to be worried. My wife scares the bejesus out of my daughter by telling her things like, “It’s illegal to leave an eight-year-old home alone. No doubt if we got divorced having left her alone would be proof that I shouldn’t get custody.

@Marsha…REALLY? You have no call to come here and accuse free-range parents of not spending time with, talking to, and caring for their children.

Please educate yourself on the concept, either by reading Lenore’s book or the many blog postings, before posting your accusations again.

@ SJB– There are hysterical helicopter parents in cities, too. We live in a city where people walk everywhere and kids play outside, but this happened to us at the park just yesterday:

My husband carries a swiss army knife, which fell out of his pocket while he was romping around with our kid at the playground. He didn’t notice it had fallen out until a dad held it up after having confiscated it from a kid who was “TRYING TO OPEN IT!” When my husband claimed it, the TEM (Terrified of Everything Mother) of the child looked at us as if she recognized us from “To Catch a Predator” and screamed, “But, IT’S A KNIFE! AIEEEEE!!!” Another couple immediately took their kid to another area of the playground to escape our taint. Later, they also raised eyebrows significantly at one another when we were helping our kid (19 months) go up the climbing wall.

This kind of thing might happen more in the suburbs, but we are definitely not free of it in the city. Oh, how I wish we were. That’s the first time we’ve been shunned for our reasonable, not fear-based parenting philosophy and I know it won’t be the last.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot to say that the mom who threw the fit didn’t do any follow-up whatsoever with her kid, which I thought was interesting. I would have explained to mine what the knife was and that if he found anything like that in the future, he should take it to an adult. The last thing I would do is turn on another adult and treat him/her like a terrorist. We were at the park for about an hour with this mom and I noticed that she directed/managed every minute of her kids’ experience there. Sounds fun, right?

Caro

This is a very interesting one. I think it proves the point that ideas about what are right and wrong regarding parenting are very different for each person. Sounds like most people don’t have much of a problem with allowing the kid to go to the park. Several people, even on the free range side, see an issue with allowing him to go to the fast food place for a drink. One thing I’m not clear on is, was he expecting a free drink or did he have money to pay (because most places charge even for water). Anyway, I don’t know this kid so I can’t say whether it was appropriate for him. However, even to those parents who think they are able to judge whether or not their kid is “ready” by presenting countless scenarios…what would you do if, etc. You really don’t know what the kid would do until he/she has been in that situation. How may times have you thought “if I were in that situation…” and then when you found yourself in that situation you did something very different? My point is, kids need the EXPERIENCE. Yes, you can try to prepare them but ultimately it is like on-the-job training. You learn a lot better when you are allowed to DO things. We, as a society, need to support this process rather than derail it. The man should have asked the child questions rather than assuming there was something wrong. I have come across unattended children many times, and if I am concerned I just ask them, do your parents know where you are? If I am convinced that they are o.k., I leave them alone. I would NEVER call the police without first trying to establish if there is a problem. And then, I would attempt to find the parent rather than resort to calling the authorities. Drives me nuts that people can’t be civilized to one another anymore.

aigh, misspelling and misstatement. he should have called the parent instead of the police. sorry.

@SBSM,

I agree completely! My son carries a note he can present to busybodies if a simple “I’m OK, thanks” doesn’t work. That note has my # on it if that still isn’t enough for them and my son carries a cell phone.

If that is still not enough, then UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES is he to go with ANY stranger anywhere. Thus, in the situation you describe, I would hope that my son would stand firm and go on about his business and perhaps even call 9/11 to report harassment. And if any stranger lays a hand on him, he has both the training and my permission to do as much physical damage as necessary to protect himself.

I’m glad you posted that. I need to talk wih him more about what to do if someone won’t take “Thanks, I’m OK” for an answer.

Lenore, you are so right. However, this is the result of the government thinking that they know what’s best for the kids rather than their own parents and so seek to eliminate the right of the parent to raise their own child the way they see fit as long as no crime is committed in favor of having all children become wards of “ze great and glorious State……only ze great and glorious State knows what’s best.” So if you think this is bad, Lenore, take a gander at the UN convention on the rights of the child. That is guaranteed to blow you away. No parental rights whatsoever in that document.

About the event itself: getting water in a restaurant is perfectly acceptable unless the restaurant has a policy against giving out free water or the like. Most restaurants don’t begrudge the minor expense in exchange for customer free will. I’d probably tell my kid to not accept free food from strangers in general, partly for the stranger angle, but also because it’s better etiquette. But as long as the kid knows not to go anywhere with a stranger, then I have a hard time seeing the risk in it: even if the guy is a predator trying to “groom” the child, it doesn’t mean he’s going to be successful.

And to second sconzey, I think a FreeRangeWiki or other reference would be a great idea. It would be a valuable source of information of what local laws are. But it could also be a valuable source of information of things which really ARE dangerous for children, and how to prepare them for them. For instance, while child predators are an overblown risk, they DO exist, and there are things kids need to know in the unlikely chance they run into one. Having a non-panicky source of this information would be invaluable. (Although since this is a controversial topic, making this a full-blown wiki would open us up to lots of helicopter spam; I’d probably recommend some sort of approval process for people to edit: make people login, maybe moderate their first few edits, and then give them carte blanche.)

@Lihtox – you’re right….child predators DO exist……there is a program run by the Catholic Church called VIRTUS…..it’s mainly for people who plan to work with many children on a daily basis like people planning for a career in day care for instance….but I imagine it could be useful for parents too….it’s a training program that deals with child sexual abuse

Seriously, Anthony, do you just refresh and refresh hoping that you’ll find a hook, no matter how small, to hang your anti-Catholic, anti-religious baggage?

It’s all a little silly, don’t you think? You’re not going to convince the theists with your mean line of trolling, and you just embarrass the non-theists. (At least, you embarrass me. And I don’t even know you!)

i think the issue here is that the kid was in a public place, doing the following:

-asking for a non-public utility, although its common to just get a free water. even though common, the store isnt required to give a water for free. not a big deal

– the big deal here is that the kid (unknowingly) used a common care-point among adults or parents, which is to assist a kid in what they believe (the adult) to be a suspicious situation. in this case, the adult went out of their way to “help”

regardless, the kid put himself, not knowingly, in a situation where he used a kind of public trust, a kindness that used for strangers.

if the parent wanted to know how to avoid this, they should have trained their kid to not accept things from strangers, no matter how yummy. this was in fact a MAJOR failure on the parents part- to not train the kid on what to do and not do.

even if there were lots of people around to see- it doesnt matter- its commons sense that if you let your kids in public alone, they need skills to deal with offers from strangers. offers big and small alike. this kid, just accepted, and in turn, made people (me) want to scold the mom for letting their kid go around UNTRAINED, seemingly asking for food.

you can correct poor style with training. thats all.

nothing more to see here, move along!

this is not good.