“Really, American Cancer Society? For My 14-Year-Old to Walk for Cancer she Needs an Adult Chaperone?”

Crazy.

My 10yo has been doing 5ks in the community with all ages for the past year. Exactly what do they think is going to happen to a kid with hundreds or thousands of other fit people surrounding them? I am not a runner so I don’t accompany her, though I hang out at the finish line.

I went online and asked how people find races for their kids to participate in. Some people suggested “Girls on the Run.” I signed my kid up for the GOTR 5K which is next weekend. They strongly recommend that a parent (or similar) run with the kid. Really? I don’t do 5Ks. And I am NOT going to slow my kid down by forcing her to run with my old creaky self. I will meet my kid at the finish line and I don’t care who doesn’t like it. 😛

I wonder if the ACA is trying to maintain a clean event instead of something like the Susan Komen events where “save the ta-tas” is the rallying cry.

Before anyone jumps to defend anybody, please note that i have not participated in any of these events and my musing above is sort of tongue-in-cheek.

Considering that most have been walking since we were little i really don’t think we adult help to do it. Maybe have a few adults to keep an eye on things and help if it is needed.

I’ve done Relay multiple times and was team leader twice. Let me explain a few things;
1. Each team has to have a leader and the leader has to be over 21. This is due to the personal information that has to be collected on the team leader as they will be handling lots of other people’s personal information, as well as donations.
2. Each team leader is expected to attend one organizational meeting that lasts about an hour. At that meeting teams are assigned spots in the campground, t-shirts for team members are handed out, silent auction and day-of activities and sales are announced etc. so you don’t end up with everyone bringing the same things. You don’t just have 300 people show up day-of and expect everything to work without an organizational meeting.
3. Most towns have a curfew, Relay runs for anywhere from 12 to 24 hours with the most important and moving events happening starting at the midnight candlelight memorial Unless you want your 14 year old to be rousted out by the cops at 11 p.m. (Which our police department did one year) there needs to be an adult who knows them and takes personal responsibility for them.

BTW. I highly recommend doing Relay. I walked for twelve hours straight, barefoot, with only two bathroom breaks for my donations and it was well worth it.

“The infantilization of our kids goes hand in hand with the time-wastification of us parents.”

Best summary ever. It should be your new tagline.

“I walked for twelve hours straight, barefoot, with only two bathroom breaks for my donations and it was well worth it.”

I’d rather have bees in my hair, honestly.

Give me a good ol’ Beef and Beer with proceeds going directly to a needy family any day of the week.

So my daughter is doing this relay for 12 hours on a Saturday at one of our schools. These kids can spend 7-9 hours daily at school, but at 12 hours they turn into heathens?? For my part, I’ve had to drive her to multiple fundraising events (that she worked without any adult supervision quite well) and she’s handled the money (not that hard) they’ve raised as a team. But I have to give up almost 4 hours on a Saturday (because they told us to give ourselves 1 hour for the shuttle each way) so she can volunteer to walk around a middle school track and I can make sure she’s not discriminating against others? This IS bees in my hair….sheesh.

I totally agree this is nonsense but its companies, corporations, charities, etc. protect themselves from the very parents whom you write about. If, and I mean “if” something were to happen to these children while on the walk, parents end up causing nothing but grief and headaches by flexing their social media muscle. We are in the “wonderful” world of signing a “waiver” generation. You can’t do anything that is remotely unsafe without signing one.

“So based on what you’re saying, Ravana, Lenore is wrong. One team of 10 kids wouldn’t need 2 chaperones — they’d need 24.”

No, they need 2. You could have 24 chaperones, if you wanted.

Here you have people who have direct experience with the event, telling you that it doesn’t work the way you think it does, and your response is to tell them that no, no, that can’t be right. Try accepting that the person who has extensive experience with the event knows more about how it works than the person who doesn’t.

This is an event that draws all ages of participants, down to infants. Those infants are being infantalized! — wait a minute, what? (Note: One of the meanings of “infant”, rarely used today but still preserved in legal writing, is synonymous with “minor”.)

So, you have a 24-hour-long event (not “a two-hour charity event”) and it’s open to minors of all ages, from 17 years, 364 days down to actual infants, and they have a policy for letting minors participate. Those monsters!

“No, they need 2”

Did you read the original letter – the one from a person who also has direct experience with the event? It clearly says that they need one chaperone per five kids *for every two hour slot*. So if you had ten kids, that would be 2 chaperones *for every two hour slot*. By my math, 2 chaperones times twelve two-hour slots = 24 chaperones. Of course, granted, one chaperone could fill multiple slots, so that’s not necessarily 24 separate people needed. But it is 24 separate slots. It also sounds to me like people aren’t terribly eager to take even one two-hour slot, so getting someone to take multiple two-hour slots is even less likely.

“…and it’s open to minors of all ages, from 17 years, 364 days down to actual infants, and they have a policy for letting minors participate.”

And that’s exactly part of the problem. They have *a* policy for minors, which by definition counts someone who is 17 and 364 days exactly the same as someone who is an infant. Tell me how that is *not* infantilizing to the former?

It isn’t just a matter of something happening to the children. But also many parents will expect the people running the event to babysit their children. For them to be responsible for their comings and goings and what they do while they are there.

12 hours is a lot of time for distraction and teens don’t always make wise decisions. Susie may have had the best intentions to walk for 12 hours but then the hot guy her parents won’t let her date swung by and she went off with him for a couple hours thinking she could get away with it, but somehow her parents found out and now they are blowing up the phones of the people who ran the event screaming at them for letting their baby go off with this hoodlum and blasting them on social media.

Now personally I would blame my child and only my child if she made this choice, but their are lots of parents like Susie’s out there who will insist that Susie is just a child and it is actually the adult in charge who is at fault. If I were running the show, I would give them a different adult to be in charge. If the event makes it clear that they are not responsible for babysitting kids by specifically requiring someone else be present to babysit, Susie’s parents are less likely to attack them.

“Treating a minor like they’re a minor? Ye Gods, the horror!”

There’s quite a lot of difference between a 17 year old and an infant. At that age my friends and I were driving ourselves around to places, and we didn’t require chaperoning.

“Go to an event, and count the kids, and then get back to me about how hard it is to get someone to chaperone kids, K?”

How many of those kids are being chaperoned by people not participating in the event, as opposed kids who are simply accompanying their parent or grandparent participants? Chaperoning your child’s event is not the same thing as bringing your child along to your own event. It is very possible that despite the number of adults who participate in this event in general, this team comprised exclusively of teens (with the exception of one adult captain) was in fact having difficulty finding chaperones among their family and friends. I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to participate in the Relay for Life and probably even less desire if possible to chaperone my kid while she participates. (Luckily this is not on her list of things she wants to do.)

@Jennifer C “There’s quite a lot of difference between a 17 year old and an infant. At that age my friends and I were driving ourselves around to places, and we didn’t require chaperoning.”

I agree and I would not had any issue with 16 years old attending even like that without adult chaperons. The systems I am used to usually require an adult to sign that these are allowed to participate and that parent has responsibility for their behavior. However, the adult does not have to be present (but is responsible if 16 years old destroys something or drunk and cause damage).

But, this is event primary for adults and organizers likely don’t want deal with responsibility for children. They don’t care about when exactly they become able/disciplined enough to follow instruction, when they cease to need special handling, they don’t care about when exactly they are able not to get lost or otherwise cause additional work. Hence requirement for adults who are supposed to sort out the above and cut at 18 years old.

On one hand, I agree that rules are ridiculous. On the other, it should be ok to organize event primary for adults with rules about children that makes it easy and safe and comfortable *for organizers*. This even is not about youngsters learning independence or having good time, it is supposed to be about cancer.
It would be better if the society as a whole allowed them to have lower age cut off without too much additional work, responsibility or risk, but as is now not just parents would blame them if young person would get into trouble during event. General opinion would be against them in such event.

In that situation, I understand that wishes and interests of younger demographics or their parents are not primary consideration.

When I was 11, my friend and I participated in a beach walk to see the sunrise, probably around this time of year. It involved us getting up at like 4 and cycling ourselves to the train station. I still remember sitting outside the train station waiting for the bus for what seemed like forever because it was so cold!
And now American 17-year-olds cannot walk indoors on a track for a while, in the middle of the day?

“one volunteer chaperone over age 25 per 5 students. These kids are 14, 15, and 16!”

And then one 15-year-old brings her 25-year-old boyfriend and you’ll see they’re STILL not happy! 😛

“How many of those kids are being chaperoned by people not participating in the event, as opposed kids who are simply accompanying their parent or grandparent participants?”

Who cares, and why should they?

You’re also conflating “kids who are there because their parents are there” and “Kids who are participants as well as their parents/grandparents”, although admittedly there’s not much reason to worry about this distinction, either.

” I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to participate in the Relay for Life”
OK. So don’t.

@Dienne

If you want a good example of what I am talking about look at Trevor MacDonald, a Canadian Trans activist who had a baby a few years ago. He created a huge stir over the midwives association only having language about womens reproductive health, as well as expectant and birthing mothers in their guidelines. He suggested the language be removed and made more inclusive and several midwives took issues with this. They saw it as an ethical/professional dilemma.

One of the things I found most striking when reading Trevor’s call to action/arm in HuffPo was a comment from one of his friends, another trans male who had recently given birth. He was devastated that his incredibly kind, professional, inclusive, and welcoming midwife who had used appropriate language and done nothing but made him feel welcome and at ease was “transphobic”. Yes, transphobic. Why was she transphobic? Because she signed the petition of midwives who saw the request as an ethical dilemma. Especially considering the rarity of trans patients. (Believe it or not… we’ve all be aware of appropriate language usage for years).

He and many others who read Trevor’s article than descended upon the midwives association and put intense pressure on them, as Trevor requested, and started demonizing all as Transphobic.

You’ll see a few rouge fact checking sites that no one has heard of saying there was no pressure to change the language, but you can find several direct articles from Trevor saying otherwise. In the end, due to compromise, one section of their guidelines was changed/completely reworded.

You’ll also find discussions on Snopes about the British Health Orgs recent guide that suggested doctors use pregnant persons to be more inclusive, as if many are not already doing this in the rare situations where it is applicable. The guides are framed as… you can continue using the archaic language about expectant mothers or you be inclusive and start using pregnant people! (Shame, shame, shame… it’s just a suggestion from those who love to control and change the language be it expectant mothers or prostitution, and shame you until it takes hold in society lest you deemed a horrible human).

You can also find a string of articles about feminine products needing to be totally reworked, have all mention of women removed, and supply vague neutral color packaging. It was not that long ago that people requested it be removed from plain paper packing and have references to women added instead of it being treated as a shameful secret.

I just checked at my favorite place to volunteer (our nearby National Park). Ages up to 15 are to be accompanied by adults; age 16-17 need a signature. This is for a variety of physical tasks using tools etc.

When I was a kid, we had community gardens about a mile from home. I don’t know if there was an “unaccompanied” age limit or not, but if there was, it was definitely somewhere in elementary school. We worked with adult “strangers” and used handheld farming tools. And ate our produce (without USDA testing). Of course that was about 40 years ago ….

“People responding to your comment that it couldn’t be hard for a team of teens to find the necessary chaperones because more adults than children take part in this event as if the two things have any relationship to each other. ”

Huhwut?

Are you responding to the comment you wish I’d made instead of to the one I actually made?

—

“If I didn’t want random teens showing up at my house, I simply would not let them in. But then I’m not running a volunteer event.”

But you want to tell the people who are, how to do it?

Good grief! Twenty yrs ago my 10yo wanted to volunteer at a veterinarian’s office because she thought that would be a cool line of work to consider. A few phone calls from me to several different vets. One visit to meet the staff at the office that said yes. She was there one afternoon a week for the whole summer. No legal BS. No chaperone. And this was a business involving meds, needles, and animals with teeth. Our world has not changed for the better in this regard.

“Since when are 14, 15, and 16 year-olds ‘children’?

There may have been a time when adulthood began at 13, but it isn’t within the last couple hundred years.

“They are teenagers!”

“Teenager” is just a modern term used to distinguish a subset of children. It does not remove them from being children anymore than “infant,” “toddler” or “tween” indicates anything other that a smaller age subset within the overall category of children.

“We want to make the adults accountable for a 16 year-old’s behavior, when do kids ever have personal accountability for their own behavior?”

You don’t get to demand that other people must relinquish their right to hold you accountable for your minor’s behavior. You can allow your child as much freedom as you want with your own dime and in your own time. But when it is their dime and their time, they can continue to hold you accountable until they can no longer legally do so.

“Except “their dime” implies a cost and these kids are raising money for the charity simply by participating.”

No, they aren’t.

Teams have fundraising targets… Fundraising happens before the event, and there’s a little bit of it at the event. But A) teams don’t raise funds by showing up, and B) teams aren’t excluded if they miss their fundraising targets.

My former employer got involved after a co-worker died suddenly and unexpectedly of lung cancer. The employer put up the fundraising target for our team, and we then put out collection jars asking our customers for donations. Relay teams at the event I went to fell into two broad categories… workplace teams, where all the team members worked at the same place, and family teams, where all of the team members were honoring a family member.

I was doing walk and bike athons back when I was a little kid (7-10) and nothing ever happened to me. There were checkpoints, you had water and Gatoraid, fruit and cookies and at the halfway mark they had lunch. Everyone did this every year and I didn’t need my mother to walk with me. Adults and teens walked alone and in groups and people talked and made new friends. This was long before the Walkman was a thing.

I expect now kids would not have been as fortunate as I was.

“The kids are the ones bringing in the revenue at this school event. I understand they aren’t raising money at the event…they are walking. And apparently, being highly supervised per every 5 kids.”

If it bothers you that much, don’t go. Put on your own event, with whatever rules you find palatable. Or work with the local RfL organizers, to craft different rules more to your liking. Or choose a different cause to support with your time, effort, and money. Or just complain to people who may or may not listen with sympathy, but who are absolutely powerless to change any of the things you don’t like.

Your call.

I personally think walkathons and most other athons are dumb, but now that I think about it, my kid sister used to participate. When she was 5yo she did our local bike-a-thon, 10 miles on her 16″ sidewalk bike “Speedy.” By herself! Also at 5 she did a read-athon where SHE went door to door and got sponsorships, and then went back and collected. She raised a lot of $$ because most people didn’t think she would do many miles / books, so they pledged a high amount per book / mile. 😛

@lollipoplover “Seriously, if we can’t have basic expectations for behavior and need to require supervision for older teenagers on school property because the event is for *adults*, when can we expect them to behave like adults? We want to make the adults accountable for a 16 year-old’s behavior, when do kids ever have personal accountability for their own behavior?”

My point is that organizers don’t really want to care about this sort of questions. They want safe number to put as age limit and forget about the both child development and legal responsibility for minors thing. We tend to think about rules like this in terms of child development and in terms of what we want our children do, but non parents just don’t care about either (nor should they be expected to).

They also don’t care all that much about who is to be blamed (or accountable) when things don’t go smoothy, as long as it is not them. They want things to go smoothly as planned with minimum effort – which is still a lot of work. Holding someone accountable is just more work for them, they want participants to follow rules and not to screw anything up in the first place. 16 years old are are more likely to cause trouble then 40 years old no matter how accountable you plan to hold them.

That is my reading of these rules – 1 chaperon over 25 years old per 5 youngsters seems like a rule designed to minimize young teams while not cutting them off entirely.

I think that it makes perfect sense to ask them about reasons for rules and negotiate changes (perhaps for the next year) if possible. I am pretty sure less strict rules can be made with zero impact on organization. But it does not make sense to expect them to provide fine tuned accountability lessons for youth. This is likely about young people being seen as higher maintenance then adults.

“When I was in junior high in the early 1970s, a few friends and I would do the March of Dimes Walkathons. These were 20-mile walks that took us all over the city. {…} Now the kids need chaperones to walk around a track?”

It’s like the difference between night and day…

Quite frankly I see no reason why older teens can’t function as chaperones themselves. I was a junior camp counselor when I was fifteen one summer and had a friend at sixteen who worked as a lifeguard at an apartment complex.

“I wonder if this constant supervision up to age 18 has any connection with the horrible things people do to each other in frat houses etc. once they are supposedly “adults.””

I doubt it. For a few reasons. First, historically frat houses are pretty mild these days. They’re still fairly wild in comparison to other social groups, but in the past they were just as bad if not worse. Second, it’s not just frat houses. I’ve read stories of soldiers in various wars throughout the 20th century, and it’s pretty similar: you put a bunch of young men in one place, hopped up on testosterone, and give them a fair amount of freedom, and you get the same results. Doesn’t matter if you’re in a frat house or a conscript; this appears to be a male thing rather than a generational one.

“Holding someone accountable is just more work for them, they want participants to follow rules and not to screw anything up in the first place.”

Which was my question in the first place, why can’t all attendees be held to the same standard of conduct/behavior? Most places I go these days (lots of sports and games), it’s the ADULTS that screw things up for the kids (still thinking about the douchebag dad that yelled at a teenage umpire last night at girl’s softball game).

And speaking of more work…more chaperones means more people, more cars, more shuttles, more liability, and seems to ME like that is more work than telling participants to be responsible citizens, period- and being that they are volunteering an entire Saturday and donating money for the privilege of walking, I think the chaperone requirement is worst-first thinking and rather silly. I’d still rather contribute to a beef and beer any day over this nonsense.

@lollipoplove I think that standard for behaviour is similar, but generally speaking, if you tell adults to be somewhere at certain time, leave within 20 minutes or go in certain direction, they are more likely to comply. Not all of them, but statistically. 15 years old are more likely to forget about time and then not be there, not leave at time or go straight when they were supposed to turn right. So you spend more time sending them away from where they should not be.

None of that is necessary rowdy or bad behavior, just that you get less chaos when you organize adults (in general not for every single adult). Good team leader in work does not have the same behavior as good high school teacher and organizing camp for adults and teenagers is much different.

I really think that this standard is either meant to be discouraging and basically elimitate impact of teenagers presence, or whoever made it simply did not thought about them.

“She’s done other fundraisers at school that were all day (the basketball charity team fundraiser for local families was a big one). Never have we been required to volunteer to chaperone for a charity event.”

That was certainly their choice. Chaperones are the American Cancer Society’s choice. Just like my house has different rules than your house, each entity will have different rules than others. You don’t get to come into my house and insist that my rules are stupid and not nurturing your children’s independence sufficiently for you. You just get to decide whether to come to my house and follow my rules or not.

I am not sure where you got the idea that every entity in society has a duty to help you teach your children the proper personal accountability lessons at the time that you desire. Encouraging your child’s personal growth is not actually the function of the American Cancer Society or the Relay for Life. Their function is to raise money for cancer research as smoothly and easily as possible. If they believe that they can best meet their goals by requiring chaperones for all minors, then that is what they are going to do. Other organizations may take a different view on encouraging youth growth. Other events may be designed in such a way that they feel there is enough oversight without requiring additional chaperones. Ultimately, your only real power in any of this is to pick and choose which organizations your children volunteer their time with so that those organizations align with your personal goals for your family.

“I am not sure where you got the idea that every entity in society has a duty to help you teach your children the proper personal accountability lessons at the time that you desire.”

Yeah, that’s not what I am saying at all.
I just think as a society we’ve become accustomed to these type of rules and calling them into question doesn’t mean I expect anyone to teach my kids life lessons.

So a 16 year-old who DRIVES to the relay that day…they need a chaperone to walk. They can be licensed to drive a 3,000 lb. liability, but need to be watched on a school track. Still don’t get it, like the requirement to supervise kids at sports practices.

I KNOW the goal is to raise money…I also know this will be her last year doing it. She’s helped other charities in this past with far less bureaucracy and stringent requirements so no worries, we are a once and done family and I won’t say another word about teenagers and how “things are different now”.

While there should be medical people at events like this making sure that participants stay hydrated, and taking care of anyone who shows signs of heat exhaustion or other issues, your average teenager does not require a babysitter. Most teens 13 and up are capable of babysitting other children.

“They can be licensed to drive a 3,000 lb. liability, but need to be watched on a school track.”

This is as crazy logic as Old Mike Tang’s insistence that because his child did not break the curfew law, he couldn’t possibly be guilty of child endangerment. The two things have nothing to do with each other. The age at which the state has determined that you can drive a car, has absolutely nothing to do with determining the age at which a completely separate organization has to assume liability for another person.

The rule has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with believing that 16 year olds are incapable of walking around a track without a babysitter. It has to do with not wanting to take liability for minors for 12 hours. Nothing more. It is not a statement as to the capabilities of the minor. It is a statement as to the risk they are willing to accept.

Are you equally outraged by all the fact that car rental companies won’t rent cars to 16 year olds? How about employers that will not hire 16 year olds to make deliveries for them (18 is the minimum that can get hired around here for deliveries)? Both of these are simply assumption of risk decisions, not commentaries on the abilities of youth.

Okay. I held off for a while, but my thought on this policy is, it’s a great way to squelch the philanthropic spirit out of young people. High school students might want to help a charity out of the kindness of their hearts–in the case of the Relay for Life, the letter writer’s daughter wants to do it to honour the memory of a loved one. Volunteering and charity work can be, for a lot of young people, their first foray into participating in society in a somewhat “adult” manner–for me, it began with volunteering at the YMCA when I was twelve. By 25 years old (which seems like an absurdly high cut-off, because a lot of people finish their first round of university around 22 or 23), people are either working full-time, or actively pursuing full-time employment. They may have started families, and be too busy caring for infants/toddlers/preschoolers, to be able to volunteer at Relay for Life, either of their own accord, or as “chaperones” for younger people. I have a good friend with a three-year-old son, and I can tell you without even asking her, that participating in an event like Relay for Life would be out of the question. Even by 18, most people are enrolled in college or university, or working somewhere, and might not have the time or the inclination to do something like this either. If nothing else, a lot of high schools require a certain number of community service hours for students to graduate, (here in Ontario, it’s 40), so an event like Relay for Life would make a huge dent in that.

So, in that regard, I think that the American Cancer Society has just shot itself in the foot by cutting off a lot of potential volunteers (because I’m sure there are many, many more young people who want to volunteer, than aged-25+ adults who are willing to chaperone them), and it’s also really turning young people off from volunteering altogether, because the message here is, “You can make a difference–but not without a chaperone.” So, if you wait until people are adults, to encourage them to volunteer, I think that’s too late.

“No. They may occasionally remind people to stay hydrated at these long events, but nobody is going to somehow “make sure” you stay hydrated. What does that even entail? Stopping the race every so often and insisting that everyone must drink?”

No, that means providing free bottles of water, which is generally what they do at these events. I once helped out in a medical tent for a charity marathon in 80 degree weather. Most teens are capable of navigating a bottle of water, trust me. And who are these teens you know who still require babysitters? I was watching a pair of four-year old twins practically every Friday night by the time I was twelve and a half, then I’d take the money the next day to meet my friends at the mall for shopping and maybe a movie.

@Bryan, because cancer is not just one disease, there is never going to be ‘a single cure’ for all cancers. And there has been a lot of progress made, and a lot of people going into remission and staying there– and going on to lead productive lives. And I personally know a lot of these people–many family and friends.

“And who are these teens you know who still require babysitters?”

I didn’t say they still REQUIRED a babysitter. I said their parents still hired them a babysitter. I have no idea if they truly require one or not.

Apart from some sort of serious illness or disability I don’t see why an average 13 year old should need a babysitter. Heck, I was occasionally babysitting my own little brother at that age–and I could cook and do basic housework too.

@Jennifer “But the point I was making is that the kind of teen who goes through the procedure of filling out a participation form and then goes out to find sponsors is hardly likely to sabotage all of that with random vandalism.”

Unless of course the participation was forced by parents as a lesson for the kid and kid does not care. Or the kid joined group of other kids on whim and now is bored. Or the kid and group planned to behave well, but the group sneaked in bottle and they started to be dumb after mutual teasing – I can see this one happen at that age with quite a few of my friends (all grew up to be well adjusted college educated adults with no encounters with law etc).

I am not saying that majority of kids will do it, they wont. Most kids are fine. Nor that adults wont ever cause problems. Mostly I want to point out that these issues are not imaginary and if you organize even you have to deal with such possibilities (may be just by taking insurance that covers risks of course).

“I have trouble to reconcile your list with being nerdy, honestly.”

Straight-A student. Gifted program. Marching band. Debate team. Academic Bowl team. Absolutely no athletic ability whatsoever. Hell, I even took Latin for 2 years. I am not sure it gets much nerdier.

“Just because we don’t like the American age rule (UK requires chaperons up to 16 years old which seems more reasonable to me) does not mean we have to go out of the way to get offended over pretty ordinary chaperone agreement.”

Well said, test. I would add that the USA rules are apparently based on the legal requirements for handling sensitive personal data. We’re sort of obsessed about it. Well, we want folks in charge of things to be obsessive about it. In general Americans are about as careful with sensitive data as they are with their diet. Still, you can’t blame the folks in charge for refusing to buck the legal system!

“Unless of course the participation was forced by parents as a lesson for the kid and kid does not care. Or the kid joined group of other kids on whim and now is bored. Or the kid and group planned to behave well, but the group sneaked in bottle and they started to be dumb after mutual teasing…”

Or they joined because the cute guy/girl joined, and they found a place to be alone for a bit. Or someone who thought THEY were cute found a place for them to be alone for a bit. My wife has taught pregnant 15 year olds, in two different states. This is something of a concern, and a nation-wide organization isn’t going to fine-tune the general rules of conduct to be specific to individual cities.

“Oh good god, have all of you had your memories removed since your teenage years?”

Nope. The biggest trouble I got into involved my father/uncles. Mostly “This needs done, let’s do it” and suddenly someone ends up in the ER. One run-in with the FBI, butt they were really polite about it all, since I had contacted them for a school project involving ballistics (that one also involved a bishop). Honestly, what you consider “tame” would be considered completely out of control where I grew up. Even in college neither I nor my group of friends did 80% of that crap. We got drunk, sure, but no drugs, no vandalism, no theft (except from each other, and that was just good fun), etc. We were too busy studying, and were too broke to risk the types of things you’re describing (and were smart enough to realize that fact).

None of this is relevant, though, because the organization OBVIOUSLY ISN’T TARGETING TEENS. The rules are part of a standard management scheme for these events, and the rule requiring team leaders to be >21 is mandated by laws governing the handling of certain information. Whether teens are wild or not is irrelevant to this discussion, because it’s irrelevant to the rules under discussion.

hate when I hit send before I finish.

But that was exactly my point. I was pretty nerdy by anyone’s standards. No adult who knew me at the time would have said anything other than I was a great kid who was incredibly responsible. And I was. I started working in my parent’s business at 8. At 12, I got a horse and worked at the horse farm every weekend to earn winter boarding for said horse which required me getting up at 6am. I babysat regularly. I babysat my baby brother (age 3) for an entire week while my parents were working out of town when I was a senior in high school. Bought my own car with my own money at 16. Paid for my gas and insurance myself. I have never been arrested. Never unintentionally pregnant. Never so much as had detention at school.

Yet …

“My wife has taught pregnant 15 year olds, in two different states.”

Our schools have pregnant 13 year olds. I have wondered what my daughter’s reaction will be when she starts middle school next year and has pregnant classmates, maybe not in her grade, but definitely by 8th there will be some. She is still such a kid at heart so it will be interesting.

“I really think that this standard is either meant to be discouraging and basically elimitate impact of teenagers presence, or whoever made it simply did not thought about them.”

The third possibility is that it just isn’t a problem for most participants, because the kids that are there are will adults anyway.

—

” your average teenager does not require a babysitter.”

“Apart from some sort of serious illness or disability I don’t see why an average 13 year old should need a babysitter”

Nor does the ACS chaperone agreement require them to be babysat. Read the actual requirements. The relevant ones are 5, 11, and 13.

—

“because I’m sure there are many, many more young people who want to volunteer, than aged-25+ adults who are willing to chaperone them”

Speaking of reading the requirements, it’s 21, not 25, to chaperone, and 18, not 25, to be on a team without requiring a chaperone.

“If you don’t trust your teen to be able to moderate their own behavior without a caregiver breathing down their neck 24/7, when exactly do you plan on trusting them?”

I know how far I can trust my kid because I know her. I don’t know yours.

Look at it this way: Who should be making decisions about what your kids do, or don’t do… you, or someone you’ve selected, or me (as event organizer)?

—

“the kind of teen who goes through the procedure of filling out a participation form and then goes out to find sponsors is hardly likely to sabotage all of that with random vandalism.”

Right. So (for the sake of argument) we’ll take “random vandalism” off the table. But what if you have a kid, the bookish sort who isn’t prone to trouble and resists peer pressure… but who occasionally does some pretty crazy physical stunts. Who should be responsible for making sure THAT little girl doesn’t break anything? (Whether it’s a window on the school building, the hip of some 75-year-old cancer survivor walking around nearby, or her own neck? If your answer is “The ACS”, then you favor dropping the chaperone requirement. If your answer is “not the ACS”, then you don’t.

—

” The requirement that there be a chaperone per every 5 minors has absolutely nothing to do with data whatsoever and everything to do with wanting minors to be supervised at all times.”

Except (oops) the chaperone doesn’t commit to supervising the “youth” at all times.

Years ago my ten year old and a friend rode bikes in a diabetes fund raiser. I was a little worried but thought the independent experience would be good for them.
It was!

OK, you guys’ definition of “incredibly responsible” is scaring me.

That said….

Does anyone think maybe their adult-kid ratio is more about forcing more people of means (adults, generally) to participate than otherwise would? I mean it’s a way to guilt more people into donating just by virtue of having to be present at a fundraiser.

I see so many saying that it is the organization’s right to set whatever rules they please. Obviously, this is taken advantage of to the full extent that it is legal, and isolated protest seems to have been fairly ineffective.
Perhaps the answer to preventing organizations from making rules like this is to pass some anti-discrimination laws regulating the kind of age restrictions that can be set for these activities. Or perhaps laws restricting what parents can hold organizations liable for.

To quote Ravana:

“1. Each team has to have a leader and the leader has to be over 21. This is due to the personal information that has to be collected on the team leader as they will be handling lots of other people’s personal information, as well as donations.”

This has nothing to do with treating 16 year olds like children. This is standard stuff. On my job I compile personal information to obtain access to certain facilities. Handling this information carries with it legal obligations that NO organization can opt out of; therefore, if someone must handle this information in an organization (company, charity, whatever), that person must be 21 or over.

“2. Each team leader is expected to attend one organizational meeting that lasts about an hour. At that meeting teams are assigned spots in the campground, t-shirts for team members are handed out, silent auction and day-of activities and sales are announced etc. so you don’t end up with everyone bringing the same things. You don’t just have 300 people show up day-of and expect everything to work without an organizational meeting.”

This has nothing to do with treating 16 year olds like children. This is coordination and planning. We do something very similar in a Medieval re-enactment group I’m a part of–we designate someone to coordinate setting up campgrounds and information during large events. This is because the intelligence of any group is inversely proportional to the number of members. Get 10,000 people together without copious amounts of coordination and you’re inviting chaos. Have each team assign a leader, and have a meeting where everything is coordinated, and you have controlled chaos. Then you add the need to distribute goodies and the like, which a meeting of this nature is extremely convenient for.

“3. Most towns have a curfew, Relay runs for anywhere from 12 to 24 hours with the most important and moving events happening starting at the midnight candlelight memorial Unless you want your 14 year old to be rousted out by the cops at 11 p.m. (Which our police department did one year) there needs to be an adult who knows them and takes personal responsibility for them.”

This actively PREVENTS teenagers from being treated like children. This provides a mechanism for circumventing laws that limit freedom teens have. While not ideal, it’s far better than allowing busy-bodies to treat teens at a charity event as criminals. If you’re worried about what we’re teaching children, please explain to me how arresting them teaches them to be more philanthropic than having them operating under an established organizational structure.

Where, precisely, are teens being treated as children? I have not seen a single rule from this charity that does so, and have seen one that does the opposite.

“police would arrest teens for curfew violations when they’re obviously part of a legally organized event”

And how do police know that these teens are “obviously” part of a legally organized event and not just at the location of a legally organized event? Oh, right, they filled out the paperwork and have chaperones who are responsible for them present at the event (Thus triggering one of the exceptions to most curfew laws… most curfew laws target unsupervised teens rather than all teens.)

” Can anyone find any proof that this has actually ever happened?”
Does this thing happen at ACS events that the ACS puts in procedures to prevent happening? No.

“Can anyone find any proof that this has actually ever happened?”

Well, we have two options here. We can either accept that Ravana is telling the truth and therefore your question is answered, or we can accept that you just accused Ravana of lying. Given the fact that most people are ignoring his/her post, I don’t imagine Ravana is too keen on rejoining, so our best source is unlikely to contribute.

Depending on how big the track was, I can see police arresting teens involved in an event like this. When I was a kid the track team practiced by running around specific routes in town. It was a small town and lightly trafficked routes, so no big deal (aside from friends in the track team making detours to raid my family’s snack cabinet!). But any “Relay for Life” or other walking charity would have to do the same thing–there’s simply nowhere big enough in our town to hold such an event. And if a 14-year-old gets away from the packs, police aren’t going to be overly trusting when they say “No, really, I’m with this charity!” The reason is simple enough: hoodlums aren’t stupid, and will find a shirt for that charity and use the route as a safe-haven. Or at least, it’s a plausible enough situation that the police are going to treat it as the truth until specific evidence is provided to the contrary. A few of my wilder classmates attempted to do so with track practice, being thwarted by the fact that the cop knew they weren’t in track.

Get a bigger town, or some folks from out of town, and yeah, I can see police being inclined to assume the 14 year old out after curfew is in the wrong, rather than assuming they’re participating in a charity event. This does not, of course, prove that it DOES happen, but it shows it’s something worth considering as an organization.

Then there’s the fact that if a 14 year old volunteered for this at the wrong point, they would be violating the law. Even if no one enforces it, it COULD BE enforced at any time. As such it is incumbent upon the charity to work with the police to make sure no misunderstandings occur. The law still means something, even if you think it’s stupid.

If you are organizing something for large amount of people and summarize what you want them to do in a mail, then only few will read it. Many will assume that the only relevant information is date and ignore the rest. Many will skim it when it arrives and then forget. Many will intend to read it, but life will go in a way. Some will get confused, but there will be no one for them to consult with. Meeting means that people at least somewhat listen, you get to put emphasis on details that are important, that they can ask questions, they will see you in person and thus take more seriously what is said to them (I don’t care why it works that way, but it seems to work that way).

Also, if you are handing t-shirts and stuff like that, doing that in advance during such meeting is easier then during action day. Action day means tons of work and sleep deprivation and a bit of chaos, the more you do before the better. Of course it is also possible to do that in place, but that requires more volunteers at that day.

Mass activities like this don’t work if majority of people don’t cooperate and listen to instructions and the primary point of the whole thing is cancer – not child raising and not comfort of attendees (through comfort of attendees plays a role). Frankly, maybe everyone is better off if people outraged over single coordination meeting contributes to the effort in a more individual way.

:-O I’m the most boring person ever! (Okay, not really a surprise. My older siblings are convinced I never make any jokes.)
All I can add is detention (=1 hour picking up litter in bike parking) in 7th grade (for going upstairs during the break and then spitting down on said stairs with a friend), detention (1 hour doing homework) in 11th? grade (I skipped a class to finish a paper for another subject.) and, the pièce de résistance, also in 11th: I forged a signature. (My friend’s father’s signature. Because friend needed parental permission to re-take an exam she had an insufficient mark for and had forgotten to ask.)

@Lenore: Now why do I get the sneaking suspicion that looking for four-leaf clovers, reading in your room and weaving carpets were really just… covers? *squints eyes suspiciously*

“of all of the anti-feminist icons, BARBIE!”

Anti-feminist?
The veterinarian astronaut doctor who owns her own home, drives a couple different dream cars, and isn’t dependent on Ken for anything? (And always has JUST the right wardrobe and accessories, no matter what she’s doing?)

@Papilio–I once got detention for forgetting my gym outfit four days in a row–it was the only time I ever got detention. I never got suspended.