Stop Calling 911 About Every Parent You Find Sub-optimal

I second blaming the Internet.

This is so true. If they were trying to be helpful, why not just stay with the car until the mom comes back? If someone sees kids out by themselves and want to be helpful, why not just ask them if they need help? Don’t these parents remember about tattling?

But are these people really being “helpful”? I don’t really see where that is the case. Calling the police was never a first instinct, but now it is. Whether it’s -drop-a-dime or post-9/11 it’s a sad fact that people don’t really want to be involved and would just rather “rat it out” to the authorities and feel good that they have done something and go on their way.

No repercussions, no responsibility, just three-numbers and walk back home snug and smug.

It’s sad that it’s come to this but it’s hard to fight against societal norms.

I got lectured once about a grocery cart too. My infant son was in the grocery cart in his car seat and I was literally a FOOT away grabbing a bag for produce. An elderly woman came up and was YELLING at me about how unsafe it is to turn your back on your child in a public setting. Meanwhile she was letting her grandson jump up and down, climbing in and out of the cart. Afterwards (of course), I thought about how I should have told her that what she was allowing her child to do was far more unsafe than my situation. Children aren’t $100 bills that people are just looking to snatch!

I’m pleased by the reaction I have been seeing play out on Facebook to the Salon piece. (I didn’t bring it up).

The first person I saw post it is a grandma who has written of her benign neglect as a mother (to no protests from her readers). She asked if what the mother did was really so bad. She got some vacillation that it was bad but the mom got in more trouble than she should have. And two absolutist “Yes” and “Too many kids have died” responses… one followed up ad nausium. I told my bit about hauling a protesting, tantruming, 2-year-old out onto an icy parking lot, and nearly being knocked over twice. All because I couldn’t legally leave her in the car while I dropped my wet winter coat at the dry cleaners (with the close parking spot and big glass windows). The person who had been so adamant, cracked. He decided that the supervision provided by being able to see the car should count as supervised (in my case, but not in the Salon case)… which is sort of funny since my back would have been to the windows during the transaction. And the Salon piece indicated that mom was facing the windows at check out.

My sister posted the story and launched a conversation with her friends/communities about how to get busy bodies to stop helicoptering other people’s kids. She got a lot of agreement that the community busybody on the listserve was the troublemaker; rather that the 10 year olds she complains about walking down the sidewalks “alone.”

These are the sorts of conversations that need to happen. I don’t think people realized just how far down the rabbit hole we have gone due to legally/mentally conflating benign neglect, brief non-supervision (or indirect supervision), and age appropriate independence, with serious life threatening neglect.

There has only been one time I almost called 911 on a parent. We stumbled into a toddler alone in a parking lot just standing there holding a cell phone. No one anywhere in sight. Just standing outside. I was about to pick him up and take the phone and call 911 when a mother came out of the store and grabbed him without saying a word to us. The parking lot was right next to a super busy highway where he would have been street pancake in a second easily no doubt.

I was like WTF was that bitch doing in a store with non automatic doors without a child that small? I don’t even know how the kid got the doors open. I don’t think he looked strong enough to open them on his own. And even then you don’t turn your back on a child that small out in public like that. And it seemed like we waited a minute or two just kinda staring at the toddler in shock wondering what we should do before she came out and who knows how long he was out there before that. It was odd.

She should have at least spoke to us when she came out to get him. I actually regret not involving the police in that scenario. It was a fish store. what the hell was she doing in there? I don’t understand it.

This is from the comment section of the original article:

“But instead, people throw out neighborliness altogether and delegate their actions to the police. It comes off more as punishing the parents than helping the child.
I think this is less a piece about parenting and more about interacting with others.”

I so agree with this. Having strong communities where we look out for one another don’t develop over anonymous 911 calls. I think there should be a new term for those who make police calls or file complaints- Bad Samaritans.
If you truly are worried, GET INVOLVED. This may mean putting the phone down and watching a child safely reach a destination or see the mom/dad/caregiver return to the car. It may take 5 minutes of your time but will save endless hours of time and money for the family your phone call will ruin. That’s what a Good Samaritan would do.

“I was like WTF was that bitch doing in a store with non automatic doors without a child that small?”

How very neighborly of you. I do agree with your feeling concerned that action might be necessary in that situation, but what’s with the jumping immediately to the negative reflections not only on her behavior in the situation but her general character? You are just as bad in this respect as those you claim to disagree with. You can’t exert yourself for two seconds to think that maybe something you haven’t thought of accounts for the unusual situation. As for the mother not acting exactly as you chose when she came out to get the child — tough. She was probably upset, maybe embarrassed, and maybe quite upset after having sought her child in the store for a couple of minutes before realizing the child had gone outside and could have got herself seriously hurt. The incident wasn’t about you and she owed you, as a bystander, no particular reaction at all.

Just for the record, most people do not know the non emergency police number off the top of their heads. I certainly don’t. So if I am out somewhere with no way to look up the non emergency number, then my only choice would be to call 911. So sometimes people call that one not because it is a huge emergency or anything, but that is the only number they know to call and 911 can direct your call appropriately.

SOA: Honestly, the story sounds like the mom realized her kid was missing a few minutes after it happened, ran outside to look, was relieved to find her kid so grabbed them and snatched them up, and then went inside to finish her shopping trip. I’m not sure why or how things like “doing drugs” or “not bothering to parent” came into the picture, especially since you were assessing the situation from outside.

It’s that kind of jumping-to-the-most-negative-conclusion-possible that’s the problem. If I see an unattended very small child in or near a store, my assumption would be that there was a mom who was either very worried or who would be very worried soon. And, if a mom came out, grabbed the child, and went back inside, that would confirm my assumption, not cause me to think this mother was a horrible person for not being neighborly enough to me. Maybe she was a regular in the store and her child often roamed the store freely, and she assumed he was just doing that. Maybe she was having a truly horrible day and her mind was on 10,000 things and she didn’t realize her child was not with her until a few minutes later. There’s a million benign reasons I can think of why a caring, concerned parent might not have realized their child was outside right away.

My daughter, right before she turned 4, went missing in Target. I had turned my back for a few seconds. (Literally: the spoiler is that she had crawled inside the very rack of kids’ PJs I was looking at, covered herself up completely, and decided to hide. Then when everybody started looking for her, she got really scared and didn’t want to make any noise or come out. Her big brother found her after about 10 minutes of everybody combing the store.) I didn’t immediately freak out because I figured she was just somewhere in the clothing section, and I’d see her in a minute. Little kids can be hard to spot. It wasn’t until we didn’t see her for a few minutes that we started to worry. If, instead of hiding in a clothing rack, she had wandered outside–which was my big worry, that she’d headed outside into the busy parking lot–I would hope somebody wouldn’t assume that, just because I wasn’t immediately outside, I was probably shooting heroin in the bathroom.

Totally agree. And one of the things I’m tired of is the militant carseat people. Being such busybodies about such things like not keeping your baby rear-facing until they’re in college. Ugh. Getting so sick of it. Mind your own business already. So what if I put my one year old in a forward facing carseat while she’s still three weeks younger than the law specifies! Makes me just want to ditch my car altogether and throw her into a trailer behind my bicycle. There are lots more children in much more dire situations in the world you could help if you TRULY care that much about the welfare of other people’s children.

What is wrong with these tattlers? My own moral instincts tell me that the bystander of the Salon story should have been charged for harassment and filing a false report.

That is the line I most agree with, out of all the lines and comments that are there. For me it may be #1.

Yes, people who meddle and poke around where they are not wanted, there needs to be a legal response available to stop this. I understand that we don’t want it to be that “good faith” people who intervene in horrible situations are made to feel like they’re risking their own legal situation trying to do a good thing in those situations where calling for help is clearly the right thing to do, but at the same time the situation as it currently is is to me every bit as appalling. It’s an opposite but equal type of thing.

Parents need to be able to feel comfortable and confident that except in truly evil cases, their authority is going to be upheld, and with a minimum of fuss, and that any attempts to undermine it not only will be unsuccessful, but will also be met with reproof and even punishment in certain cases. Otherwise, how are they supposed to be able to actually BE the parents if they know they can be challenged so readily, and when the stakes are to the point that the very custody of their children can be threatened? Parents should not have to live that way, they should be able to parent however they feel (short of extreme evil) free and clear of any scrutiny.

When you do things like the woman in this article, you are NOT trying to help, you are trying to insert yourself into a situation where you are not wanted and interfere with legitimate authority that is every bit as wrong as a citizen interfering with a police officer’s investigation or trying to interfere with a police officer who’s performing their duties. If an action of a person has the effect of interfering with a police investigation or a police officer performing their duties, you can be arrested for it. To me, this is no different, and should be treated the same way.

Frankly, I know we are not to suggest or advocate violence and I am not doing that, but even so, if the parent in the original article had hauled off and socked that busybody in the mouth or popped her on her Pinocchio-sized nose, I’d be clapping “right on” in agreement with her. These busybodies really do deserve such responses, or PREFERABLY litigious ones, if they refuse to mind their own business and butt out.

LRH

These discussion always make me recall when *I* called 911 because I couldn’t find my toddler. My husband was working late, I was home with a 1 and 4 yo. They had been playing together in our playroom (extra bedroom) and I was in the bathroom not feeling well (enough said). When I went back to the playroom, the 1 yo was missing. We had a small, ranch home. I went thru each room calling his name and looking for him to no avail. The 4 yo didn’t know where the 1yo went. I went back thru the home again. I was pretty sure that he couldn’t have opened a door, but I could not figure out where he was. I even squatted down and looked under his crib, but the side was down, making the side opening pretty darn small. I even enticed him to reveal himself with cookies. No luck.

I called 911, explained that I felt a little silly, but I couldn’t locate my 1yo in a small 1 story home and wondered if it was appropriate to call them (the bathroom I was in was the farthest point from exterior doors) it was dark outside, etc.

After calling them and my husband, I took a deep breath and started looking again and lo and behold, I found him under his crib….laying on his stomach, totally against the wall, and smiling ear to ear. I wasn’t sure how he’d even fit in there given the walls and the dresser and the side being down. I couldn’t even see him w/o laying down on my stomach as well.

I called 911 back, explained my situation and they thanked me for calling and no one ever showed up at our door. I keep wondering if it would be different today.

(and that mischievousness was just a sign of things to come with that one, lol)

What’s particularly interesting about all these busybodies is that they don’t limit themselves to imposing their ideas of what’s good for everyone else just on people with kids! No, no! I recently moved back to New York to assist my 93-year-old mother who just can’t do as much as she’d like alone anymore. But with some help from a steady arm – that would be me – she can do pretty much anything she wants. Unfortunately this doesn’t sit well with many other people – I can’t tell you the number or times when these busybodies have interfered with me helping my mother on to an escalator to tell me that a safer option would be to take an elevator that they, helpfully point out, is just over there! My mother is a woman who became a lawyer in 1942 and worked until she was 90. The idea that someone else knows what’s best for her is really offensive to her – believe me she can be a real bitch LOL! But where do these people get the idea that they have to “help” people who don’t need or want their assistance? That’s my rant for the day

I agree that leaving a child unattended for a few minutes isn’t “sub-optimal” parenting, but I also think we need to recognize that ALL children are parented sub-optimally. Any parent who believes they are doing the best possible thing in every single situation is either lying or delusional. Of course, children will be living in a sub-optimal world their entire lives, so sub-optimal parenting may prepare them for that better than optimal parenting, if such a thing were even possible. But, since it isn’t, we do need to accept that we will both do things that are less-than-ideal and witness other parents doing things that are less-than-ideal, and that less-than-ideal is not a reason to declare somebody should have their children taken away or to call 911.

@Donna, I also find the ease with which people talk about other people having their children taken away disturbing. I do think that, even if people don’t necessarily mean it, the fact that it’s thrown around so much–and I rarely see an online discussion about parenting anywhere but here that *doesn’t* involve people saying that some parent or group of parents should have their children taken away–we really have become desensitized to it. We seem to have forgotten how absolutely central to the child’s identity and well-being the parent-child bond is, and that nearly anything a child experiences is going to be less traumatic that a forced separation–especially a long-term one–from their parents. I’m also not sure if people don’t know or don’t care, but it’s not like there is an endless supply of amazing, nurturing, ideal foster families out there. Most of the time kids will simply be moved from one less-than-ideal situation into another (whether it be a relative’s care or a foster home). In some cases that’s certainly warranted, but that’s the exception, and the move to removing the child first and asking questions later–and average people declaring after reading just the headline of a news story or witnessing 2 or 3 minutes of a parent-child interaction that a parent should have their children taken away–is more of a danger to kids than most of the stuff people get worried about.

anonymous mom – And it bugs me that the carseat nazis can’t imagine that anything could ever possibly be more important in driving than carseat placement. It is as though a child will spontaneously die if turned forward before a year. There is no realization that the absolute safest situation for everyone is for there to be no accident at all.

My daughter screamed bloody murder every single second she was strapped into her rear-facing carseat. It made driving anywhere pure misery. At about 9-10 months, I tried forward facing for some reason that I can’t remember and it was a miracle – happy baby with absolutely no screaming. She remained forward-facing from that point on.

It always seemed to me that my chances of not being in an accident greatly increased without the immense distraction of an infant screaming as if being murdered every single second of the drive. Yet, I was raked over the coals for daring to defy the one-year rule. I guess it is okay to get into a completely avoidable deadly accident as long as your carseat is placed correctly.

When they were babies, I used to leave my twins in the minivan while I ran into the preschool to get my older daughter. I did it because the weather was mild, it was hard to drag two babies out, and I parked close and could see the minivan while I was inside. Then my mother completely freaked out and had my aunt talk to me. She was a social worker and part of her job was removing kids from their homes when it was deemed necessary. My aunt called me and said, “I understand why you leave them in the car, but please stop. All it takes is one stranger to call the police and you could temporarily lose your children while you are investigated. Your life will be turned upside down.” Needless to say, I stopped because it hardly seemed worth it.

On car seats… my baby’s doctor said she wasn’t solid on car seat switch time as it’s safer to drive with a happy toddler you aren’t trying to soothe.

anonymous mom: if the child in my story was 4 I would have not had the same reaction at all. I would speak to a 4 year old and ask where their mom is or where they are supposed to be? But this was a baby. A 18 month abouts. Not even talking yet. Tiny tiny toddler like probably only been walking a couple months. So there is no comparison to your story about a 4 year old. You can turn your back on a 4 year old in a store. Not a 18 month old. Big big difference. A 4 year old can ask for help and has some idea of things like not running out in front of a car or going off with strangers. An 18 month old does not.

Hawa: as we were standing like 3 feet from the toddler in case it tried to run into traffic or run away, while we were looking around for anyone or asking each other what we should do, yes I am pretty sure she had to see us. We and the toddler were the only people around.

See you can’t go too far to the other extreme that the parent is NEVER at fault and that there are NO neglectful bad parents out there. Because there are. Maybe not as many as the system believes or the general public believes, but it is not big foot. They do exist. So the blind defending all parents all the time is going to bite you in the ass eventually when one does turn out to be a bad neglectful abusive one. I evaluate each individual case and then make a judgement. I don’t blindly defend any parent. I also don’t blindly convict any parent either.

Oh good grief, Dolly, how the heck does a woman who just ran out of a store know how long you’ve been standing there deciding what to do? People are not mind readers. For all she knows, you walked up just as she ran out (which from the sounds of the first version of your story is pretty much what happened although now there are all these other facts being thrown in per usual). You are 3 feet away from the boy so it is not like you are interacting with him in the least when mom comes out. In fact, it sounds like you are talking to your husband. Even with all your new facts, I’m still not seeing any great need to thank you for anything here or to even connect you to the child at all.

SOA: If I were that mother, I would have completely ignored you for fear that contact would have inspired a discussion of my parenting skills. Especially if you were scowling like I’d just run out of the store with a bong between my lips.

You judged this mother based on about 4 seconds of quasi-interaction. Isn’t it possible that giving her the benefit of the doubt is a kinder path?

SOA: I wanted to add that it’s entirely possible that the woman you saw was, in fact, a terrible parent. Maybe she lost track of her child because she was having sex with the store manager in the bathroom. The point I and others are trying to make is that you don’t know. You don’t know what led up to the kid getting separated from her, or what she did afterward. What you’ve described here doesn’t seem like enough to determine that this mother was negligent.

SOA, I don’t understand you at all. You forgot that it’s very common for tots to wander away in the blink of an eye. I’m on a homeschooling forum where there is every kind of mom, including plenty of helicopters. Once someone posted a thread telling of a time her tot wandered away, and practically everyone else on the forum then shared their own story. If your kid has never been momentarily “missing,” you are the exception – congratulations on that – just remember that it’s best to extend grace unless you don’t expect to make (or see your kids make) one single parenting mistake ever.

I would add that 100% of those many scary “lost my kid” stories ended with the kid being perfectly fine!

I would assume the mom had something else going on inside the store – maybe she was holding up a long line, maybe she had one or two other small kids inside and had to run back to them. She ran out and grabbed her kid – that’s exactly what she should have done. The failure of good old southern hospitality is not something to call 911 about! Also, maybe she could read the scorn on your face and wasn’t in the mood for it.

Another thing about toddlers, they develop so rapidly, that this might have been the very first time that tot every walked (or ran) away from his mom.

It’s also quite possible that there was another parent or older sibling there who left the store earlier (perhaps to bring the car around), and the child followed that person out the door without the adults both being aware of it. This is rather common – one parent / caregiver thinks the kid is with the other one, and the kid ends up without either one.

I think the key is that the time lapse was very short and the mom rushed to retrieve her kid when she realized he was in an unsafe situation. 911 is for people who need the police to speedily rescue them.

Another thing. Anyone who thought “bitch” or other negative thoughts toward this mom has no business considering herself to be kind. I believe that vicious thoughts harm people. If you ever had a momentary caring thought for that child it was more than canceled by your unkindness toward the mother and every other mother who has been in a similar situation.

@ SOA: Some people are exceptionally sensitive to “energy,” and if you were conferring with your husband about “What kind of parent lets their baby walk out into a PARKING LOT? We should call 911!” and this woman was picking up on your judgement, exasperation, and derision, well, no doubt she got the heck out of there.

@Dolly – what the heck? Why didn’t you pick up the child in the first place? And what is ‘odd’ about a toddler doing a runner?

Several times I or those I’m with have stopped runaway kids, sometimes on the street, usually because they’ve decided today would be a good day to test the front door while Mum is in the loo or otherwise occupied. You see a wandering infant, common sense dictates you stop the wandering infant and actively look for the parent or caregiver. Really, the only ‘odd’ thing about this incident is your reaction to it, particularly the part where you thought the woman should have thanked you. Why, when you did nothing?

I have sympathy with men, particularly in the US, who would hesitate to get involved, though my husband fortunately has no such qualms. But as a woman, get comes your way the heck involved! Or at least don’t whine when no gratitude for not intervening in what actually could have become a tragedy…

Oops, ‘when a toddler comes your way, get the heck involved’.

And if I sound judgemental, that’s because I am, in this instance, being judgemental. I cannot at all understand the mentality of someone who would see a toddler escapee, do nothing, and then call the mother a ‘bitch’ and allude to her being maybe a junkie for not thanking you for your total non-help. What the heck gives?

Maybe the woman was in a fish store to, I don’t know, look at fish?

I’m trying to remember if I thanked the staff who had been looking after my daughter was found at Target, and I don’t think she did. For one, I was super, super relieved she was there and okay, and was focused on her. For another, I was exceedingly embarrassed about the whole incident and just wanted to finish my shopping and leave. And, I was all hopped up on adrenaline and wasn’t really thinking through the social niceties of the situation. I don’t think I’m generally a rude or un-neighborly person, and it certainly wasn’t like I didn’t appreciate the help, but my response at that moment was just to want to hold my child and then get the hell out of there.

I’m rabidly interested in pre-agricultural humans lately. And one thing I’ve learned is that empathy, that quality of being able to see the humanity in someone else, no matter what they are / are not doing, is becoming a lost art.

In fact, over the last 10,000 years, human beings have been systematically training empathy right out of the consciousness of “civilized” people.

What we’re seeing today, with this whole “Those people don’t deserve to HAVE kids. Their kids should be taken away” attitude is a direct reflection of the declining presence of empathy. Other warning signs:

1. Zero-tolerance policies (at schools, anywhere, really)

2. Burgeoning prison populations of non-violent drug offenders

3. Suicide rates on the rise

4. Less sharing generally (“every man for himself”) from government policy on down

5. More weapon sales, even though violent crime is down

6. Movies that feature themes of “bad guys getting their comeuppance”

7. People holding things “closer to the vest” instead of talking about their challenges

8. “Us and them” ideas about “enemies,” “rogue nations” and “terrorists.”

@SKL: I managed to make it almost 10 years into parenting without losing track of a child. My oldest was hyper and easily distractable, but loud enough that I don’t think I could have ever lost track of him (and he hates to be alone, so he wouldn’t really wander far). He was my kid who would race in front of me and then turn around in a panic wondering where I was. He never got very far.

My daughter, on the other hand, is much calmer and more likely to just walk at a good pace next to me, so I did tend to let my guard down around her a bit. She’s also quieter and enjoys playing by myself. She’s my kid who I sometimes lose track of. Thankfully Target is the only time it’s happened while we were out, but we’ve had a few times at friends’ houses (or even in our own house) where I’ll realize I haven’t heard from her in a while, see she’s not where I last saw her, and then find her playing happily and quietly in a room I would not have expected her to be in. She sneaks around the house like a little ninja sometimes.

In my city, the police don’t have a non emergency number. They prefer all calls to go to 911 so they can run an orderly central dispatch. That might be the case in other larger departments. So I can’t blame someone who might also call 911.The question is why the police are called at all.

LRH said “Parents need to be able to feel comfortable and confident that except in truly evil cases, their authority is going to be upheld, and with a minimum of fuss, and that any attempts to undermine it not only will be unsuccessful, but will also be met with reproof and even punishment in certain cases.”

I totally agree with this. I think a big part of the problem is the balance of power in these situations. You disagree about whether something is dangerous, but for you, the stakes are having your family torn apart, while for them the stakes are… nothing. The worst case I ever heard of this was a woman whose son was taken away because he had bruises. Then he was diagnosed with leukemia, of which the bruises were a symptom. But they wouldn’t give him back (even though there was now no evidence that he had EVER been mistreated) because CPS didn’t think the mother was cooperative enough. I think he died before being returned.

@anonymous mom

Loved your post, “I would hope somebody wouldn’t assume that, just because I wasn’t immediately outside, I was probably shooting heroin in the bathroom.”

My thoughts exactly. Sometimes you lose your kid for a few minutes and it does not make you a horrible parent. You could be mom of the year and it will happen at least once.

I’m also an adoptive mom, so I’ve been thoroughly “vetted,” believe me. However, I’ve had people say I have no right to be a parent. Every time I admit to making a decision because of a practical issue, it’s “well you shouldn’t have had kids on your own if you couldn’t take care of them.” Unfortunately, the definition of “taking care of your kids” is open to considerable debate. 😛 Despite all of my parenting shortcomings, my kids are currently breathing, so I must be doing something right.

Hineata: You owe me an apology because you fail to read the comments correctly. I did get involved. My husband and I stopped our walk to stand there for several minutes next to the toddler till his mother came out and snatched him up. That is doing something. We made sure he did not go into the street, get hit by a car in the parking lot, get kidnapped, get further lost by wandering off further. We could have just walked on by the toddler without a second glance and been on our way. What would you have done exactly? Pick up a child standing there and then do what exactly? Get accused of trying to kidnap him most likely. And I regret NOT calling 911. I did not at the time but I really think I should have. My instinct was saying something was off about the whole situation.

Dolly, no there really isn’t a big difference between having the police take over the decision of when and whether you are getting your 7yo back vs your 18mo. Both of them would be equally sucky for the child and the parent.

You saved the child from being kidnapped? How can you say that? For all you know the woman who grabbed the kid and took him back in the store was a kidnapper. LOL. What a ridiculous argument. The parking lot was just teeming with kidnappers I’m sure, just like every other parking lot in the USA. :/

So in what way do you think this child would be better served by being taken away by the cops, possibly not to be returned before serious damage is done? Or hopefully more likely, the cops would have done what you should have done in the first place – taken the kid inside to find his mom. Big whoop. It isn’t that big of a deal. You don’t need police academy training and a firearm to accomplish it.

And what makes you so sure that woman only had one kid to watch?

Just because you never had that particular nightmare yourself does not prove anything except you happened to be lucky in that one respect. I’m sure each of us here could point our fingers at something or other that you have done that isn’t so perfect compared to what we’ve done. I seem to remember you being the target of a smear campaign regarding chocolate pop tarts, LOL. Get over yourself.

I seriously think you should search your soul and admit (to yourself) that your actions, words, and attitude about this business is the real problem. You are even worse than most “concerned” meddlers, because the child isn’t even in danger and you clearly only desire to harm the family. And since the majority of parents HAVE had a tot wander off at some point, your mean attitude applies equally to all of them.

Just remember, what goes around comes around. There is no avoiding it. Oh, and the bigger they are, the harder they fall.

@Dolly – sorry, no apology here! You just stood beside him? Pick the kid up and take him into the store. Get the clerks to page his parents. Not exactly rocket science.

Worrying about being accused of kidnapping is, as a woman, worst first thinking, at least provided you took him directly into the store. As I said, I’ve stopped several runners and wanderers, and never been accused of anything. In fact, because I don’t stand around with a judgemental look on my face, I usually get a nice ‘thank you’, though it certainly isn’t required.

Honestly, Dolly, you are so judgemental of others it makes me cringe. Does SOA stand for Sisters of America, that organisation that came off as so dreadful in ‘The Help’?

Though that’s Hollywood – hopefully not all ‘Sisters of America’ are rude and judgemental twits.

Calling the emergency services for bullshit is why me and another woman waited 10minutes to get onto the police when a woman was being beaten on the motorway in front of us.
We did get involved, but you can only get so involved when the attacker threatens you with a knife for getting too close. And that was just getting onto the police, took 40minutes for them to respond, wonder if that was because they were out dealing with petty crap?

Also, Dolly, you’ve never lost track of your twins? Big deal…that’s only two kids. I have regularly looked after four under four, and occasionally lost track of one (reins are a Godsend at times). Tell me you’ve never lost track of a kid when you have several to deal with.

SKL is right, what goes around, comes around. Good luck with maintaining your self-proclaimed ‘perfect parent’ (from other posts) status. Many of us prefer life in the real world, however, where parents make the odd mistakes, lose track of kids, yada, yada, yada. Am just so glad the Dollyverse is situated far away from me…..

Equating losing track of a child with being a junky – God save us!

Okay, all of this “Dolly versus Everyone Else” arguing aside, why are people calling 911, which is supposed to be for police, fire, or ambulance, over other people’s questionable parenting? That’s a massive waste of resources, even when the parenting in question is legitimately abusive, because there’s already a separate place to call for that–Child Protective Services in the States, the Children’s Aid Society here in Canada, and I forget what it’s called in Australia, but there was definitely something. Anyway, I’m pretty sure that every developed nation in the world has some equivalent of that, and it blows my mind that someone’s “My house is burning down” call might not be getting through, because the 911 phone system is clogged up with “My neighbour’s kids are playing outside unsupervised” calls.

>>I think they figure that people will think more about involving the police and police will put some thought into the referral to CPS. And that is very likely true.<<

Maybe that's true in some cases, but there are obviously enough people calling the police over junk food, unsupervised play, and kids waiting alone in cars, that it's become a problem. Honestly, I can't entirely fault people for this, if calling CPS gets them a recorded message that says, "Call the police." Some people are astute and self-regulating enough that they'll read between the lines, and figure, "Okay, Johnny and Susie playing in the park without an adult isn't a crime, it's just more permissive parenting than I'd feel comfortable with," but others will take that message at face value, call the police, and encourage others to do the same, when they witness "bad" parenting." Maybe it would help if there was more information out there about what child abuse ISN'T, then people would realize that tattling on every little thing does more harm than good.

Emily, I seriously doubt that a single person who has called 911 for stupid kid stuff like kids left in a car took the time to look up CPS’ number, call it, get a recording and then call 911. They just called 911. To them, it was an emergency.

On finding an 18 month-old child:

At both my mom and dad’s funerals, one of our old neighbors, Mrs. P, shared her “How I met your Mother” story.

Her family had just moved in down the street. The movers were unloading furniture and Mrs. P was unpacking her car with her 4 kids in it when she noticed a toddler sitting in the driveway playing with her children’s toys. She picked her up and noticed she was freshly bathed and happy. She knocked on the house next door but no answer. She went to the next house, and they said, “Oh, that’s one of (my Mom’s). She just got home from the hospital with her 10th baby.”

Mrs. P brought my sister to our house where my mom was nursing a newborn (me). My mom invited her in for tea and they started a friendship that lasted a lifetime. She joined the bridge club that the moms in the neighborhood had running for 20 years. Her family joined our church and we carpooled to sports with their kids. I am still good friends with their youngest daughter. All over a lost toddler.

I guess this could have gone in another direction if Mrs. P had an attitude of “I was like WTF was that bitch doing…” but as a fellow mom who loves kids she knew that parenting isn’t about perfection. A runaway toddler in her driveway opened up so many friendships for her because she cared and got involved and didn’t rush to judgement over a momentary lapse in parenting.

At least Dolly is being consistent here. Since she knows what the mother was thinking and doing without being able to see what was going on inside the store, she correctly concludes that the mother was able to know that two people standing outside the store and talking to one another a few feet from her child were “protecting” her child and deserve her effusive thanks for their herculean efforts. /sarc

Which raises the question — even if the mother could have somehow divined that Dolly and her husband were watching the child, despite their apparent non-action, what exactly did they do that required thanks? Don’t thanks imply going out of your way and exerting actual effort? I thought that taking a passive interest in a child who might be close to danger was sort of the default, not what you’d call “effort.”

I hate to distract from the drama, however I noticed we have some adoptive parents in the crowd. I would really like to adopt, but I am concerned about dealing with the adoption process and having a free range philosophy, especially since we would prefer to adopt school age and domestically which basically means dealing with CPS and the foster system. Any tips or reassurances?

The “report it all to CPS” mentality is different in Canada than the US. I think we’re hot on the call here, but it’s SO much worse in the US where my parent friends live in near daily fear of a CPS visit for any minor parenting infraction.

I was in a car with friends up from Detroit, and driving in Windsor. We passed a woman who was pulling her suitcase near the train station, with the car seat and kid balanced maybe a bit precarious looking on top. Not “ideal” but it was getting them to the taxi stand or wherever. It

My US friend piped up “I’m a mandated reporter! I should call about that! Its a reportable offense!”

I replied “No, not here, you’re not and no, it isn’t. If it bothers you, go offer to help carry the suitcase.”

She went “yeah..I guess you’re right.”

Seriously. Not every last thing is “reportable.” I believe CPS is valuable in real cases of danger, but if we call every time a kid is fed non organic cheerios or has a scraped knee, they’re obligated to investigate, and it takes time and resources away from kids in honest danger.

@Papilio
“If *I* would call 112 (the EU equivalent of 911) for a stupid reason or as a prank, I can get a fine or even jailtime, depending on how often I call (read: waste 112 operators’ time), the costs made by the emergency services as a result of my call, etc.
But the USA doesn’t have a similar law??”

Yes, but… There are those laws on the books but in talking with the 911 operators where I work (I work for a city government), they are rarely enforced. A lot of the time it is because they don’t want people to hesitate and possibly not call when it is an actual emergency because the caller is trying to figure that out for themselves. Kind of like the ‘better safe than sorry’ thought. They may prosecute in completely egregious incidents (like the lady who calls 911 when KFC runs out of chicken), but even that’s not an always situation.

And people like Dolly are why things are so bad these days.
Any person in their right mind, had they been concerned would have talked to the kid, maybe taken them into the fish store or just stayed with the kid.
Not jumped to the conclusion that something deviant, illegal or horrendous was going on.
And no you Dolly should not have been thanked. Maybe told off, but definetly not thanked.
As for what she was doing in the fish store? I don’t know, buying fish, looking for her kid…..
And thank the powers you do not live anywhere near us, because I would never want you to interact or anywhere near kids.

When my son was about 2 we were at the playground and he was climbing a ladder. Another parent said to me “I hope he doesn’t get hurt!” and I said,”I hope he does, because if he gets hurt ‘small’, he’ll learn how not to get hurt ‘big'”

I think it can be a valuable experience for a kid to wonder off at the store. They get experience in how to get help when they need to and how to handle an unplanned situation. I would never cause it to happen on purpose, of course, But if it happens and we prepare our kids for these things, then it maybe a little scary, but a good learning experience, like when it happened when my daughter was 5 at Target.

Between ages 3 and 5, kids should start earning their parents’ trust that they will follow instructions and behave properly, even when unsupervised for a few minutes. A 4 year old with an ipad in a car at a safe suburban strip mall on a cool day is an appropriate extension of this for a child who has otherwise demonstrated trustworthiness.

Free Range parenting is not done accidentally or just for convenience. It is an intentional process of teaching kids how to be independent, responsible and evaluate risks.

It is easy to fear that your parenting choices could be confused with unintentional, neglectful parenting by busybodies or authorities. If you have this fear, you might consider talking with a sympathetic child pshycologist or family councilor about your choices. You could even ask them to “sign-off” on your “plan” for incremental increases in independence and responsibility; that way if there were ever an issue, you’d have proof that your choices were intentional, thoughtful,(under a doctor’s guidance even!) and not “laziness”.

I’ve been thinking about this article a lot over the past few days.

All parents are, at times, sub-optimal. I say arrest them all and seize their children. Our governments, which are never sub-optimal, are superior at raising children.

Rethinking Dolly’s story…let’s look at what actually HAPPENED.

a child got away from a parent who didn’t immediately notice. Two people noticed the child and kept an eye on her until the mother, a few minutes later, realized where she was and came out and took her back. All was then well — no harm came to the child nor was the child ever in direct danger, or even out of the mother’s sight for more than a couple of minutes.

This is a happy story, with a happy ending. There is only one unhappy element and it has nothing to do with anything that actually happened, but has to do with the feelings of a person who had not actually involved herself in the situation.

@Jen P – what a fantastic story! 🙂

I must confess, I am not generally a hysterical person (mostly because it achieves nothing, LOL!) but losing a kid at a beach, particularly for that length of time, would put me darn close to it! Thank goodness for sensible kid and sensible lifeguards :-).

Though hopefully if she’d actually tried to get into the water other swimmers would have kept an eye on her….

@hineata – I was pretty hysterical (largely for the reason you mention – I was concerned she’d have gone back to the water – not that she didn’t know not to go in alone . . . but she was 4 and was and remains a kid who likes to push the boundaries 😀 ). We found her so quickly after discovering she was missing, however, that I didn’t have much time to think about it. And the beach was CROWDED that day. I was so proud of her for being able to find our stuff in the midst of all those people in a situation where she had to have been pretty nervous. It’s so easy to underestimate what kids are capable of.

These concern trolls are the same ones that come at you when you’re pregnant. Like the crazy lady who tried calling 911 for ‘fetus endangerment’ because a pregnant friend had a case of beer in her grocery cart (being purchased on Superbowl Sunday for a party). Or the one that tried to have the manager kick me out of the restaurant because I tasted my husbands wine (1 sip) while pregnant.

In Scandinavia, it is considered good parenting to have your baby nap outside – especially in winter. The germs get trapped inside in winter, so the fresh air is considered good for them. Most Americans would lose their sh!t over the idea of leaving a baby in a stroller outside for a nap.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21537988

Too much hyperbole on the internet and especially TV news in the US. Naming winter storms, the ‘polar vortex’ hyperbole, headlines that get their own dramatically dramatic theme music, everything screams at you in ALL CAPS ALL THE TIME… It’s not just parenting, it’s everything.

Also, the can you leave you child in a car alone question is incessant. The answer is no. Society says no. It is that simple. Don’t do it. The Slate article is mind melting in that the answer was no. Take the kid out and let him be upset. Society says you can not leave kids in a car alone. The reasons? It doesn’t matter. This is the WELL KNOWN decision of our society! Anyone who leaves their, say 10 week old, kid in the car has to know what the reaction will be by now. If they don;t then I doubt their bona fides to be a parent. Done. Next question.

You want to have kids play in a park “alone”? Great! Go sit on a bench on the other side of the park and only appear in an emergency. When the kid is old enough to A) avoid bad decisions that will have negative outcomes, B) advocate for themselves among children and adults, and C) be able properly explain themselves to authorities (police and nosy adults) then they can go totally alone with distance and time depending on age and maturity. Done. Next question.

Can my 9 year old ride the subway? Sure! If they are mature enough to do so. If they can “find their way,” if they can advocate for themselves if lost, or if approached by a police officer then can adequately explain themselves, or if they know how to avoid certain negatives situations then sure! If not then maybe you wait until they can do these things.

Can my child walk home alone from to X? Sure! As long as it would A) be normal to see an adult walking along the same space (meaning not on highway or other odd place where pedestrians usually do not belong), B) they are old enough to “find their way,” and as long as they can help themselves if lost, and as long as they can make a good decision if a negative situation occurs, and as long as they can explain themselves to an authority figure then yes. A child can go wherever depending on age and distance.

The problem isn’t that other adults are to nosy (although they certainly over think the risks), and it isn’t that the police and authorities are too nosy and strict (they do what they do because the a) the laws are on the books, B) society at large expects them to, C) they are trying to avoid potential problems that they see proverbially “every day.” While crime rates are indeed low think about how many missing child reports a cop sees, think about all the domestic violence calls a cop gets a year, think about the number of homicides they have to investigate in a year, think about the information they get about legitimate sex offenders in their precincts. While the numbers may be going down overall the flood is still washing over the cops. They feel like they are holding it all at bay). The community and the authorities act they way they do either because A) they parent has put their child in a situation, or allowed their child to enter into a situation, where the child can not navigate their way, advocate for themselves, or explain themselves.

That is why you don’t leave the kid in the car. A 4 year old strapped to a car seat cannot change their situation if need be. They cannot advocate for themselves. They can not explain themselves while locked in a straight jacket in a giant metal tube. The likely hood of danger is nil. However, the likely hood that a parent who makes that sort of “sub-optimal” decision will, or indeed does, make other just plan bad decisions is pretty high.