STORIES NEEDED: Has Your Kid’s Camp Become Less Free-Range? Or Even Nutty?

I wanted to respond to your post about camp — my son also just spent a week at boy scout camp. As an attorney, I’m not that offended by the stack of health forms, as I know that they are an attempt to be informed so as to avoid liability and to provide proper assistance if your kid has a health issue.

However, I wanted to relate something positive about boy scout camp. I’m slowly learning to let go of some of the cultural fears that prevent me from letting my kids experience the world more freely. My 11-year-old son attended a boy scout camp last week and we went to visit him in the middle of the week for family week. I must say I was impressed with the way this camp lets kids be kids. The camp is 600 acres of forest, including two lakes, a climbing wall, a shooting range, and a swimming pool. For the entire week, my son was trusted to make and maintain his own camp site, navigate the large campgrounds, and take his own initiative to participate in a variety of activities. He was taught gun safety and then allowed to shoot a rifle. He did archery. He climbed a two-story climbing wall, he wandered the woods, he kayaked. He learned how to save himself if he was dumped in the water fully clothed. There are some ground rules — the kids have to be with another camper when they’re walking around, for example, but I was so impressed with the independence that these kids were allowed to demonstrate. They took such pride in that and, because me son has ADHD and some learning disabilities, I took a lot of pride in it too.

What about this: http://www.wickedlocal.com/needham/features/x1672986085/Needham-Backyard-camp-raises-questions#axzz1RHgnMei7

i;m surprised you are writing about this. Didn’t you just speak at an ACA camp conference, now you are going after camps.. shame that you are attacking something you spoke so highly about a couple months of ago.
Tracy

I live in Maryland and I noticed the space on the camp form about sunscreen. I thought it was a ridiculous question, but I had no idea it was because it was a law. Crazy.

I think it’s great that boy scouts are nurturing independence. However, they also perpetuate unfounded fear by not allowing LGBT people become den leaders. Their rule promotes fear and intolerance. So unfortunate.

Not a camp story, but I work at a city pool where staff is prohibited from putting sunscreen on patrons, mostly for fear of a lawsuit. Not that I much mind not having to rub the backs of sweaty old men, but after implementing the new law we often have older children come to the pool alone and leave very sunburnt.

My daughter’s camp here in California has the same rule about sunscreen, and I also thought it sounded a bit silly. No idea if it is based on a law here. I figure we have to trust their ability to vet councillors, or sunscreen will end up a pretty minor concern. On the plus side, they do say they will give the kids time and encouragement to take care of it, and I don’t mind my daughter having more responsibility for taking care of herself.

My kids go to day camp, not yet sleep away camp, and last year after someone broke their arm falling off the monkey bars, the camp got rid of all the monkey bars. When I complained they told me their insurance company gave them no choice. I don’t blame the camp, they do what they can within the parameters they have.

On the “always wonder around in pairs” rule; I had the same rule as a kid, and I had a very free range childhood, hiking around the bush in Africa. That’s just common sense, so there’s someone to go for help if you break a leg, get bitten by a snake, fall in the river etc…

20 years ago the local boy scout camp health form was 4 pages, small print. So, not much of a difference there. The real changes, even then, were the insurance company continually changing the rules on activities like rappelling.

But I do stand by that it is easy to call some parents overcautious when you don’t have kids with special needs like speech delays, super fair skin, food allergies, etc. Until you have to deal with it you really have no idea how much harder it can make things and therefore how much more cautious we have to be. I would give my right arm to have kids with skin that doesn’t burn every hour or kids with no food allergies, etc that I could just send to camp and not say a word and not worry. It would be nice. Its not reality. So I have to be that weird mother that has to talk to everyone and overpack stuff etc instead of just saying “HERES MY KIDS BYE!” and leaving like other mothers get to do. It stinks. I don’t relish having to be that way. But it is what it is.

But at least I am trying. I am sending them to zoo camp and not just keeping them home. I do send them to preschool. I send them off and just hope that the teachers/counselors know what the heck they are doing. I have kids that can’t swim that will be in the pool during zoo camp too and that makes me very nervous but they have lifeguards there so I just hope it will be okay. I worry, but I still let them experience the world.

I think most of the camps around here also have the sunscreen rule. I wish they didn’t mostly because I forget to put it on him before he goes and he’s certainly never going to think about it!

I was surprised that the camp my son is at this week has provisions for kids who arrive and leave by bike! I was shocked and pleased (although we are not doing it). How very free range – let the kids arrive on their own, lock up their bike and spend the day at camp!

My son was also supposed to go to a sleepaway scout camp, but you have to have one den leader or parent for every 5 boys and I couldn’t make it and none of our other kids or parents were going. I think the BSA forms are pretty standard, although I do wish they would get it all online so you could fill it out once and then just update. I’m not unhappy with the 2 kids together rule – at our last council camp out one kid got lost for several hours, and I’d rather they get lost with a buddy. Most of these kids (we are in cub scouts) are younger and don’t have the orienteering skills yet. Plus if there’s an injury it’s always better to have another person there, especially if you aren’t familiar with the terrain – true for grownups, too. It doesn’t mean you can’t go nearby the campsite on your own.

So sad to hear about that backyard camp in Needham! The insurance agencies really have the world over a barrel.

Leigh: One application of sunscreen in the morning will not cut it. Sunscreen needs to be applied every 30 minutes if you are in the water and after you dry off if you are in the water. If you are sweating same rules. If just outside, every hour to 2 hours you need reapplication. Maybe if you have dark skin and don’t burn easily one morning application might get you, but not for fair skinned children. Read the back of your sunscreen tube, it confirms what I say. Also check recommendations from http://www.skincancer.org/Sunscreen/

My son’s preschool teacher refused to apply sunscreen to my boys right before they go outside. She told me I had to do it before I drop him off. I do and since they are only outside 30 minutes it is okay but if they were outside more than that, I would have had to protest this. A 3 year old cannot apply sunscreen to themselves. They won’t get all the areas nor will they have the self discipline to do that. Now when he is 10, sure he can do it himself.

Maureen: agreed! I worked at a daycare and we were allowed to apply diaper cream but only if the parents sent it and we had to wear gloves. One day this little girl had diaper rash so badly that she was screaming when we changed her but the parent had sent no diaper cream so I didn’t put any on in case I got in trouble. Another worker said “Screw that!” and put some on that another kid brought. Technically she could have been fired for that. We knew it was not an allergy or anything, just the mother forgot to send some yet the little girl was going to have to suffer or someone had to put their job on the line. Its stupid and not common sense.

When I worked in daycare, we had to have permission from parents for every little thing…sunscreen, bug spray, any other “medication” (hand cream, anti-itch cream, antibiotic ointment, diaper rash cream, etc.), allergies (food or otherwise), etc. I understand why, especially with allergies so rampant. It was kind of annoying for us to deal with because parents were also expected to provide said things and when something wasn’t there, we got reprimanded by the parents…and then our boss. I’m sorry you don’t check your child’s take-home folder. We stuck a note in their a week and a half ago saying that your child was running low on sunscreen and could you please bring more. We stuck another one in there two days later. And the following Monday. And yesterday. We even verbally reminded you yesterday morning when you dropped your child off and again when you picked them up. So yes, it’s suddenly our fault that we didn’t remind you. Sheesh!

Along those lines, we had one child that was allergic to everything (seemingly) and it was to the point that we couldn’t apply her sunscreen (she was 3) without wearing protective gloves, even after washing our hands, because of “something” on us that could make her break out in hives. Her parents finally had to get a prescription form of a spray sunscreen for her because she couldn’t apply it herself everywhere she needed to and we were basically not allowed to touch her. What a pain that was. We felt so bad, too, because it’s not like it was the child’s fault or the parents’ fault.

Oh, and my favorite was that I wasn’t allowed to apply diaper cream/ointment to a child because we didn’t have an updated form from the parents saying we could…even though the diaper rash cream was right in the child’s diaper bag and had obviously been used (the kid had the diaper rash cream on their bum when I went to change them). The kid has diaper rash. You really want to make him suffer because the parents are too lazy to fill out their paperwork. I was so mad about that one…I almost quit that job that day.

That is, I’m NOT sure if that’s the kids or camp… stupid typos!

Leslie: That is awful and is exactly what would happen to my redhead if it was an all day camp in the sun and he got no reapplication of sunscreen. I have never let my child get burned badly. He might get a little red on his nose but never badly because I try to be super vigilant about it. I really don’t understand when I hear parents say they let their kid get sunburned really bad. I know it happens, but OMG! Did they not put any sunscreen on at all?!

My mom was always super vigilant about putting sunscreen on me as a kid. I am glad she did. I am fair skinned too. I never had a sunburn as a kid. Ever. Now when I was a teenager and supposed to do it myself I was not as vigilant. I got a really bad one on my nose once and my skin came off so that it looked like a chunk of my nose was gone. Everyone made leprosy jokes about me. I also let myself get burned really bad during the first air show I ever attended. I did not know what to expect and did not know I would be sitting outside in the sun all day long. My legs got burnt and my arms. Whoops! Other than that, never been burned. They see mommy put on sunscreen too and they know that way how important it is.

I am glad my mom never let me go to tanning beds or get burned. I look way younger than I am because I have not wrinkled and my skin still looks fresh. I got mistaken for a high school and even middle school student when I subbed after I graduated college! The other girls I graduated with who made fun of me for being pale and they went to tanning beds. They did not come out so well.

I’m happy to say that my daughter’s girl scout camp was very free-range this summer. She spent several days trekking through a national forest with a team of llamas. When an unexpected hail-storm destroyed several of the tents, the girls, their counselors and (shock!) the male llama guide all crowded into one tent together for the night. It was the only reasonable thing to do under the circumstances – but paranoia sometimes prevents people from being reasonable. The girls had a very dramatic adventure and came home with a very exciting tale to tell.

My daughter (7) goes to day camp. We put sunscreen on her in the AM before she goes, and the counselers re-apply in the PM. They swim twice/day and it is a long day, so once in the AM would not be sufficient. I wouldn’t send her to a camp that would not re-apply the sunscreen.
She also gets picked up by a bus at the sidewalk in front of our house. We had been waiting outside with her until the bus came each day. Yesterday she told me to “hide” or go inside before the bus came because she wanted to be like a teenager and do it on her own. While I’m not ready for the teenager part, she is proudly waiting on her own outside now. One small step.

I’m a girl guide leader in Ontario and we have the sunscreen rules. They take it one step further to the point where if a child doesn’t bring sunscreen to a sleep away camping trip (tents, not cabins) We can’t use any of ours since they classify it as a drug. We have to cover them from head to toe in clothes and try to reach their parents to bring some.
We did apply THEIR sunscreen to them since the girls are 5-8 and it was a 3 day camp that was 100% outdoors. Most of them nowadays have the no rub sunscreen so it wasn’t a big deal.

Wow – these forms sound totally mental! I have a Troop of Scouts in the UK (10 – 14yrs old) whom I regularly take on weekend camps and once a year for a week or so. The basic parental consent form is 1 page long.
Instead of asking parents to check off everything we ARE allowed to give the kids the form instead asks parents to list allergies and things we’re NOT to give the kids. Obviously some kids have a number of allergies and the form extends to another sheet but for most kids there’s nothing on that form so when they cut themselves we can go ahead and put some Savlon on it. When it’s sunny we can go ahead and give them sunscreen. We’re all first aid trained…
It seems to me its so much easier when a kid comes to you with an ouchy to quickly glance at a single sheet: nothing on it, proceed with common sense, an allergy to plasters/savlon/iodine whatever, proceed with the recommended (and, if necessary, provided) alternative.

I cant wrap my head around the notion of having to letting a child frazzle because parents forgot to pack suncream!

Wow, so many comments! I wanted to say how great Boy Scout camp is (and you really only need to fill out parts A, B and C of the form, and really your doctor has to fill out part B) but Mobymeg was right on it. Always good to have a buddy, but otherwise, what a wonderful experience. My middle son, almost 15, is at camp Yawgoog in RI right now, surely having the time of his life as he does every year. Just like his older brother before him. Independence rules. I know he’ll come home filthy, hopefully with a few merit badges, and definitly with an enhanced love of nature and a greater sense of what he can accomplish.

This is not quite a camp, but it is a summer activity. I am a working mom and my three kids all go to summer school run by our school district. It is held at a two public schools in our district It is a fun summer school (for example, my daughter is taking tennis and cooking), not academic.

The summer school lasts for half a day and, in the past, an after-care program at the school was offered. My kids go to this same after-care program after school during the school year. This year, the after-care program was canceled about a month before summer school started because Texas has passed new licensing restrictions on child care providers. The school district decided it was too cumbersome to meet these licensing requirements for summer school.

Quite frankly, I don’t even know what the requirements are. I don’t know if facility requirements became more stringent, if documentation requirements became more burdensome, or if our school district now falls under restrictions that used to be waived.

The ironic part of all of this is that I send my kids to school for 7 hours a day during the school year, but now I can’t send my kids to after-care run by the same people.

A buddy system is not anti-freerange. It is teaching the kids commonsense when out in the bush.

As an adult and a avid camper/hiker (we call it bushwalking in Australia) I would never go hiking alone. Two is better and three is prefered. The reasoning is that if an injury occurs one person can stay with the victim while the third goes for help.

This is outdoor safety where injuries are common and death from an otherwise benign injury is a possibility due to location particularly if the person is alone. A disorientated person can wander off a trail and never be found again.

My son attends a daycare and during the summer months it is converted to a camp. It is in suburban long island and has been at the same location for decades. It is family owned and operated and a great place. In fact my son’s grandfather went there as a child.

I am fine with the requests for medical information and the like but what struck me as overkill are some of the camp/daycare’s rules.

Food is an excellent example — we sent my son with snacks like blueberries and grapes (cut in half). On each occasion we were told that neither fruit was allowed and the reason was that it was school policy and as much as the teachers thought it was ridiculous they were bound to follow the policy.

Shoes would be the next example — as the summer months approached we sent him to school with sandals that fit snug but were open toed. This was not allowed as the State of New York requires close toed shoes — period.

The camp/daycare is a great place, they have a pool that my son, 2, gets to swim in with the counselors and they have ball fields, sand galore and all kinds of equipment for him to climb, explore and enjoy. They do a great job.

My wife and I are both attorneys and we decided to question the owner about the fruit and shoe rules. She initially took it as confrontational but quickly realized we were just curious about the reason and she proceeded to explain that the State of New York promulgates certain suggestions that are given to daycare/camps. She would love to ignore many of them but she would not take the liability risk as ignoring the suggestions would be considered evidence of negligence.

Ultimately, this is where the problem lies, the government and the unelected state nannies who have a worst first mentality and think they are doing good by “protecting the children”. Many people are content to let the government tell them what to do and it is a slippery slope we as a society have slid half way down.

The only way to stop it is to constantly speak up against the idea that the Government should dictate on so many issues as to what is right and wrong when it comes to the way you raise your children or what is a proper standard of safety. Most laws, rules and regulations need to be tossed and only the most simple need to be kept.

Michael: You are right that many times it is the state’s rules and regulations and not the individual daycares/camps/schools rules. I worked at a very nice daycare and in order to get the highest rating which meant we could charge more and get more clients, we had to follow all kinds of dumb rules the state came up with. Some we agreed with. Some we thought were totally awful and actually probably hurt the kids more than helped them. Yet, we had no choice in following them or we would be marked down when we had our evaluation from the State. My question is who comes up with the state’s rules?! Not someone very smart. Rules like no time outs allowed. Rules like you have to take the kids outside everyday even if it is really cold and the snot coming out of the little 1 year old’s noses is freezing to their faces and they look miserable and are just standing there and not playing? There is no common sense to it. Oh yeah that everytime we wipe a nose we have to wash our hands first, put on gloves, wipe the nose, throw the gloves and tissue away and then wash hands again. Great, except we had 10 1 year olds in one class and they all had snotty noses. Guess what we did all day long? Sure germ prevention is important but how good is it that we can’t actually play with the kids because we spend all day wiping noses and nothing else since everytime we wipe a nose it takes 5 minutes?!

Emily: so if a kid gets hurt and is unconcious and also bleeding and allergic to iodine he is someone supposed to tell you he is allergic to iodine while also being unconcious?! May be a small chance of something like that happening but it also would not hurt for the counselors to know his allergies too. Again, it is easy if you have no problems like allergies or delays to deal with to say its helicopter parents and overprotective. Its another if you are the one with special needs and a simple mistake can kill you.

Rather than forcing everyone to sit through a 5-page document, wouldn’t it be easier to ask parents for potential allergies at sign up? That would be easier for everyone involved…

By the way, isn’t the whole sunblock thing a solution in search of a problem. If counselors are properly screened beforehand, no one needs to worry about perverts…

I work at a sleepaway camp as a counselor.

We’re both super free-range and super not. It depends.

Free-range: No phone calls to or from parents are permitted. No technology of any kind is allowed. 10 campers to 2 counselors. Hiking, swimming, kayaking, capture the flag, you name it.

Not free-range: Mandatory life-jackets if you’re going to be in the water. We have kids up to sixteen years old. Don’t care how well you swim. Yes, even though we have certified lifeguards on duty at all times.

The unfortunate thing is that we have to do that or we can’t get insurance. We can’t tell horror stories either because one child a couple years ago ended up needing to go for shock psychotherapy after getting scared crapless from a ghost story.

I dunno. I think it’s still pretty good. Our forms are long… it’s ten pages of paperwork, but we are a free camp for financially challenged families… there are a lot of disabilities and traumas and things we ask about. Some stuff we have to ask because there are so many disclosures of abuse that need to be reported… if we ask it in the registration it makes it a lot easier to go to child services.That’s really sad.

Also, campers are never allowed to be one on one with a counselor unless they are within eyesight of other people. This is in place to save the counselor from untrue accusations by the camper as much (or more) than it is to prevent abuse. Also, we have the kids go to and from the washroom and stuff in groups as much as possible because they kept having sex with each other when they got there. We’re less worried about someone “getting them” and more worried about what they’re gonna do! haha

Sorry for long post.

tl;dr: camps can seem awful restrictive, but many aren’t really, and if they are, it’s justified.

Why don’t the kids just apply their own sun screen?

Mareen, if they can’t touch the child’s bum to apply cream to diaper rash for a baby at the daycare, how the heck do they clean off the poop??? And yes, I know, probably a state rule. Stupid. Maybe you addressed this in a post further down, but I just had to ask!

I’d like to see some stats sometime on how many kids make false accusations of abuse, sexual or otherwise, the minute that the kid and the adult are out of the watchful eyes of everyone else (at camp, in the church nursery, wherever…) Is it really that many that we need all these rules keeping a responsible adult and a child from being alone together?

When I was at camp a million years ago, the rule was if we had to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night we had to wake the counselor so that she could walk down with us. (Bathrooms were separate from the cabins, it was night, and she was responsible for us being in the cabin when we were supposed to be.) It would never have occurred to me to report her for sexual abuse, just for … what is it…laughs?? I guess now I’d have to wake up 2 counselors, just for a trip to the bathroom.

Jenn:

This post stems mostly from my ignorance on the subject but I really don’t recall food allergies amongst my peers when I was in underoos and the like. However, with my two year old son I am exposed to multiple no outside food rules or no peanut rules. I’m happy to comply until he reaches a certain age then I think I’ll get annoyed, like if i can’t send him to elementary school with a pb&j.

My petty annoyance notwithstanding, is their an increase in the percentage of kids with food allergies from the time when I was a kid (born in ’73) and if so why. If you got a link to a good quick read on the subject I would love to educate myself.

This is a valid concern. But certainly there are measures that can be adopted to avoid unfortunate incidents to happen. Management must be more scrutinizing in getting counselors and volunteer staff members. We parents must see to it that our children are medically cleared to join kids camps or teen boot camps or any activity because the liability is on the camp counselors and staff but the responsibility is still ours.

Not camp but a friend was taking the Jr/Sr high kids from her church on a hike, a flat trail through some woods 15 mintues from town for the afternoon. The “health officer” had to cancel and she was looking for a medically trained person ( EMT, RN, MD, etc. Her words) to come or the hike would be cancelled. All I could do was roll my eyes.

For the next two weeks, my son is at Turtle Island Preserve. http://www.turtleislandpreserve.com. They specifically state that “safety is one of their concerns,” on the bottom of the page after they tell you to bring a pocket knife, leave the Purell at home, and not to bring anything antibacterial wipes or soap. They post pictures online, and he’s barefoot in the mud, hanging off a horse and buggy, and wrestling over a piece of watermelon in a tangle of other boys. That’s camp!

Insanity… Those five pages could be reduced to a single slip with “Please note any known allergies and/or health problems your child has below”. That way the kid that is allergic to bactine or sunscreen or peanuts or whatnot can be identified at the start – heck, the camp counselers could even give the kid a ‘special coloured badge’ to wear in case this is a BIG camp so the kid is immediately identifiably as a ‘don’t apply anything without checking his/her status’.

It’s far easier to identify the ‘one in a million’ risk than to slog through five pages of a kid’s medical history every time s/he needs a rub of suncream.

Yes, one in a million. It turns out that half of the kids in the US that scored a ‘positive’ on an allergy test aren’t allergic at all? See this link:

http://thefastertimes.com/clinicalupdate/2010/05/14/maybe-were-not-allergic-to-everything-after-all/

I quote:

“A study published in this week’s Journal of the America Medical Assocation highlights the complexity of diagnosing and treating allergies. The paper is a review of more than seventy other research studies, which the authors summarize as “critically limited by the lack of uniformity for the diagnosis of a food allergy, severely limiting conclusions about best practices for management and prevention.” Basically, the authors came to the clear conclusion that, when it comes to diagnosing food allergies, there is no clear conclusion.

There are millions of people in the US with true allergies, including banana allergies. Every year, a few hundred die from anaphylactic reactions. Unfortunately, the seriousness of their condition is diluted by fearful patients and parents who unknowingly exaggerate potential allergic reactions to the point that children with food allergies are a laughing matter. Peanut-free zones in schools are ridiculed, concerned parents are caricatured as over-protective yuppies, and allergy sufferers are painted as histrionic whiners. Too many people cry wolf, to the detriment of everyone who truly experiences serious food allergies.

Many people have skin reactions to the test but do not have any allergic reaction when they actually eat the specific food.

So the bottom line is, medical testing over-diagnoses allergies, and many people are needlessly worried about their reaction to a peanut butter and banana sandwich. On the other hand, some do have legitimate concern as true allergies do exist.”

Okay, last link (it’s just that this is a very good one):

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/03/health/03well.html

“Doctors say that misdiagnosed food allergies appear to be on the rise, and countless families are needlessly avoiding certain foods and spending hundreds of dollars on costly nonallergenic supplements. In extreme cases, misdiagnosed allergies have put children at risk for malnutrition.

And avoiding food in the mistaken fear of allergy may be making the overall problem worse — by making children more sensitive to certain foods when they finally do eat them.”

“The most important question in diagnosing food allergy is whether the child has tolerated the food in the past, Dr. Fleischer says. While some severe allergies are obvious, parents given a positive blood test result should seek advice from an experienced allergist who performs medically supervised food challenge testing.

Even when a food allergy has been confirmed, parents should have children retested, because many allergies are outgrown, particularly in the cases of milk, eggs, soy and wheat.

Doctors’ groups are also starting to acknowledge that some of their own policies may have contributed to overtesting and misdiagnoses. A committee for the American Academy of Asthma Allergy and Immunology is considering revised guidelines recommending earlier introduction of foods like eggs, peanuts and shellfish, which in the past have been delayed until age 2 or 3. A 2008 study of 10,000 British children, reported in The Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology, found that early exposure to peanuts lowered allergy risk.”

“If the kid has been doing fine, I would advise parents not to get allergy testing, because the results are more likely to be false positives than true positives,” Dr. Christakis said in an interview. “If they do think they need allergy testing, be extremely measured and go to reputable people.”

Okay, I’ll stop now…

and don’t forget that many allergies are misdiagnosed, often for years or even decades, as something else entirely (either another allergy or another disease).
Case in point: my sister, who has a severe milk protein allergy (which wasn’t tested for in any of the standard tests at the time and I think still isn’t).
For over a decade she was put on a variety of medications for things ranging from asthma to arthritis to sleeping sickness.

At least one doctor simply told my parents that she was just lazy and should be spanked more (she was prone to sleeping sometimes 36 hours at a time after eating cheese, drinking milk, or indeed anything containing whey powder or other milk protein).
Here’s a kid that went to complete 3 university courses (with 3 degrees) by the time she was 25 and another college degree a few years later. Meeting a doctor who happened to have visited a conference on rare allergies a few weeks before and remembered the symptoms changed her life.

In the modern “safety conscious” world, an entire camp would have to be free from icecream, cheesecake, cheeseburgers, frozen yoghurt, hot cocoa, etc. etc. just because people like her exist.

Marion: The thing is I don’t know ANYONE who just goes and gets allergy testing for no reason. It is expensive, time consuming and painful. We had our son get it because when I fed him eggs and peanuts for the first time he broke out into hives. So it was a real reaction from the actual food. Of course the allergy tests were conclusive with a blood test and a scratch test. I don’t know anyone who just goes and gets allergy testing for the heck of it and I know several food allergic kids. They all had reactions from food so their parents took them to an allergist after that. So I kinda doubt that article personally. Allergy tests are even a good thing because we found out through the blood test his egg allergy is gone. So he can eat eggs now and get the flu shot!!! Peanut is declining we found out as well so maybe he will all the way outgrow that one too!

Some parents do freak out and go overboard on allergy protection, but the ones I know are very chill about it. I have never demanded anyone to have peanut free food. I always bring him some oreos when we go to birthday parties because he could not eat the cake when he had the egg allergy. It was not a problem. Now he can usually eat the cake. I might say something if they serve peanut butter cookies and peanut butter sandwiches and peanut butter everything, but for the most part it is no problem. Parents usually are surprised by how chill we are about it. My son never cried because he did not get cake. He just knew he got his oreos and was totally happy with that. Probably because it has always been that way since he was a baby.

Silver Fang, no kid under the age of 45 should be allowed to put on sunscreen by himself because he does not know how and will not be aware of reaching specific places and will burn and die.

I’m amazed at the stories of people who had to wear lifejackets to go swimming. Everything I know from swimming, from lifeguarding to teaching swimming, says that in most cases wearing a PFD for swimming is stupid (note: I said most cases. I can tell you right off the bat five cases where I personally was swimming and felt PFDs were the way to go). You can’t manuever yourself properly. Now, I do believe in wearing PFDs when on boats, though.

Dolly, it’s so refreshing to hear from another parent of an allergic child that is not going crazy. I’ve had a few people tell me that I’m endangering my child by eating peanuts in her presence. We’re pretty relaxed but we do worry about her during her teen years because teens have the highest incidence of allergic reactions because a) they’re rebellious by nature, b) many were young when they had their last reaction and forget/ignore symptoms c) are embarrassed about being different and don’t tell friends to take precautions or report symptoms and d) they haven’t been taught how to manage their allergy and the new-found independence has lead to some costly errors. We’re hoping that we’re giving her the skills to manage when she’s out on her own all the time.
We’ve had friends who when having our daughter as a guest, feel the need to sterilize their home and throw away all peanut products. They are shocked that I didn’t do the same. When she’s invited over, I find out what’s on the menu for snacks/meals and there’s always been SOMETHING for her to eat. I will send food if the parent is completely unsure and paranoid. For birthday parties, I bake a batch of cupcakes and freeze them. We send her to parties with her cupcake and icing. Even if the cake is safe (we know of a few bakeries in the area that specialize in allergen-free cakes), she often just wants her cupcakes. We sent a pack of rice krispies for the classroom so if there is a treat, she can have one. We’ve also told her that if someone offers her a treat, and she is unsure if it is safe, bring it home for us to check and she can maybe eat it then or I will give her one of her alternative treats. She and my son are used to being patient and waiting for a treat while their friends are enjoying theirs. Its simply a fact of life for my kids and people are amazed that my kids don’t get upset when they’re not able to partake in group treats.

As for sunscreen, my kids have been able to apply their sunscreen themselves, faces included, since age 4. By 2 and a half they could do their own arms and legs. We have a head to toe check system that we have done since they were babies so it’s routine. They do a better job than most adults. They know that the blob of sunscreen they put in their hand for each limb needs to be the size of a toonie. If you teach them how to do it properly, you will save yourself a ton of time in the morning and they gain independence. I also know that when they are at camp or school and need to reapply, they will do an excellent job of re-applying, rather than the slap and smear job that most of my students try. All it takes is one bad sunburn and you have increased your risk of skin cancer.

Dolly: That’s exactly how I started my kids out when applying on their own. They loved putting it on their legs (easiest limbs to master-least likely to burn) and I think that because they were in control of the situation, it made the face/ears application go much smoother. Now the problem is they put on too much!

Linda: You’re right to be concerned about the chemicals in sunscreen and I’m sure most parents are. There are websites that rate sunscreens (need to check every year as it gets updated) based on the chemicals/toxins and how well the ingredients actually protect the skin from the sun. For me, I have no pigment on most of my body due to vitiligo. I have worn sunscreen since I was a small child because I can burn within 10 minutes being outside on a sunny day, summer or winter. Skin cancer is a real risk for me and my children as they may have the same genetic defect that I have (vitiligo usually starts to show by age 8, and gets progressively worse due to activity and sun exposure). The only option to not wearing sunscreen for me is avoiding being outdoors or near windows and that is not possible nor the way I want to live my ilfe! Thanks to my vigilance to sun exposure, I have very young skin. I have had a few cancer scares but none have been problematic. I think for some people it’s one of those situations where you toss a coin and decide which risk is the one you’re going to worry about.

The daycare I worked at had a good system for food allergies. In the classroom where the allergic child stayed they had pictures up about the size of a sheet of paper that had a picture of the allergic food such as a peanut and then the kids name on top in big letters. That way all you needed to do was glance up at the papers if you were unsure and you saw the signs 100 times a day and it got ingrained in your brain. Worked out pretty well. Not as easy in a camp to do something like that but they could put signs up in the employee lounge or something and that might help them be able to remember the allergies better.

Linda – I agree with you about not understanding this obsession with sunscreen. I put sunscreen on my daughter when we are swimming or going to be outside for a lengthy period of time (more than walking to and fro a vehicle) during peak sun hours. And I don’t reapply frequently. She’s never had a sunburn (nor have I in many years) and we are pale people. Excepting the person with a skin condition, people should not be vitamin d deficient due to sunscreen use (an issue today).

I also agree with whoever stated that the entire 5 page form could’ve been boiled down to 2 questions – list any allergies and list any serious illnesses. It is not like some parent is going to forget to mention that her child is diabetic because the form doesn’t specifically ask about that condition.

I looked up some of these forms from BSA online just because I was curious. One asked about “menstrual problems” and specified that the question was for females only. Really? I wouldn’t have known without that helpful hint.

@Cass, agree with you about the buddy system being important, over here in NZ the Mountain Safety Council recommends 4 people, so two can walk out and one can stay with the injured party – one of the issues being with the dense bush cover,it’s relatively easy to get lost, fall over the edge of unseen cliffs etc. (Sis and I, at age 9 and 10 or so, once spent a half hour looking for our favourite tree, no more than 10 feet off the main track of the bush we’d previously spent ages in, because we’d taken a new ‘path’ to get there – the bush was that thick. Good lesson for us….never did tell our parents, LOL!). so lots of things like that just common sense. Seem to lose a couple of tourists a year because they underestimate the terrain, wander off by themselves, yada, yada…..

@Linda. Would be nice not to have to apply sunscreen….I am a mongrel breed, reasonably tan skin, but the old hole in the ozone layer means we have to be fairly vigilant….Obviously what we have to be annoyingly vigilant about must vary location to location. Personally I prefer having to apply sunscreen to having to watch out for bears etc! – those Canadians/ North, North American types must be really brave! And as for snakes, spiders etc, I take my hat off to Australians!

Interesting… the day camp my kids attended this past week specified that the counselors were only allowed to apply spray-sunscreen. I didn’t think anything of it, and threw a can of spray in their bag. Now I wonder if that was the reason! I didn’t question it, but now you have me wondering.

At the camp my son went to two years ago, I was required to show my ID to the counselor every single afternoon when I picked up my son. For two weeks. When I said something cranky about it, the counselor replied, deadpan, “Yeah, it’s because of all those identical twin abductions.”

Last year he spent two weeks studying video game design at an expensive day camp with a minimum age of 12. It was held on a college campus, so obviously there was no playground and minimal outdoor time, and there was no lunch or snack service. So the opportunities for injury were pretty much limited to carpal tunnel syndrome. For that camp I had to fill out something like eight pages of forms and submit his entire immunization history. At least at that camp, I was allowed to sign a release so that he could, theoretically, leave on his own, which in practical terms meant I could just go pick him up and go home, instead of waiting in line for a sign-out sheet.

This year he’s too old for camp, thank goodness.

On the other hand, the bargain-priced theater camp for ages 8-18 which my daughter is attending for her second summer required minimal paperwork and has no special drop-off or pick-up procedure. And, believe it or not, I haven’t heard of any little actors getting kidnapped in the parking lot.

@Dolly, you are a riot. You freely admit all over this blog how you judge whether someone is a good parent or not based one one minute’s observation of one incident in the life of the people you’re judging. But you get all huffy and say “don’t judge” about sunscreen use? How about giving us all a break and looking inside yourself instead of criticizing everyone else.

Spray sunscreen doesn’t work on little ones who are not good enough to listen to you when you say close your eyes so I can spray ya in the face with this sunscreen. I probably might be able to get them to do that now but when they were 2? Forget it. Mine are dense.

Wow Dolly. Just wow. (And no, I’m not wowing at the fact that you rule.)

My bike outing was cancelled when the temps were in the 90s with a heat index of 97 (That means it was humid and felt like 97). We are a licensed day care facility and there is a rule that kids cannot go outside when it’s over 90. Of course, they can go swimming, but not biking a short distance (3/4 of a mile) to a beach for swimming. I understand the need to be cautious when it’s hot, but I really feel like this rule teaches kids how to be afraid of the outdoors. I’m all for common sense. Going slow and taking breaks is the best thing we can do to teach our kids how to handle hot weather. There is nothing I can do the change this rule so I have to change my afternoon rides or make my bike club a non-licensed program. Not sure which option I’ll choose.

Buffy: Wow right back at you. Must make you feel good to call out one particular poster and bully them for their opinion.

My daughter’s YMCA camp required the kids go around in groups of THREE. Two makes sense, but three just makes it extra difficult to find yet another person who wants to go on this trail, or over to that clearing, or whatever.

@Cynthia, actually 3 people is a standard for safety. If an accident happens one persons stays with the injured person and the 3rd goes for help. My sister and I were out goofing around on our family farm when I slipped down the creek bank and did a number on my knee and ankle. My sister was youngish 5 or 6. She did not want to leave me to get help. It would have been easier if my cousin had been there.

Buffy: Do you realize what a hypocrite you are being? You are being judgmental about my judgmentalness! LOL!

Cynthia – I may be making a judgment that is wrong. At the camps I went to we had boundaries. In the main area we could just walk around. If we left the main area, we had to tell someone where we were going and had to have 3 people with us. The river or lake areas were off limits completely when the lifeguards weren’t on duty (basiclly after dusk.)

The one time I remember getting into trouble was when my Pide Pipper of a cousin convinced a group of girls to go to Catholic Mass. SO they missed the dinner call for our cabin. I was going to be punished also – till I pointed out repeatedly that I was CATHOLIC and required to go to mass. Cousin had told a councilor she was going so she didn’t get in trouble – but they tried to make her go each week after that. They couldn’t wrap their heads around she wasn’t Catholic and I was.

@Cass – Good on you guys! Am also going to go way off topic – would love to head down that way, but can’t do it as a family quite yet because my middle one has chronic, minor health issues, which become major when she’s not in easy reach of antibiotics….(Wish we could just prescribe our own meds – would make life so much easier!)The scenery down that way is stunning, isn’t it! Anyway, yeah, still seem to lose even seasoned people on a yearly basis, usually to flooded rivers or the cold. The head of the local museum died recently tramping in hills not far from here….Experienced too, so probably didn’t pay the attention he should have to weather reports, advice from people he met on the trail etc. I think they (him and companion) got caught in a whiteout when the weather changed….Only a few hundred metres from the hut too. Sad….In their case, BTW, extra people wouldn’t have been a lot of use,methinks, except maybe to persuade them to turn back earlier, as the cold would have affected them all….

And, way, way off topic….What about Australia? We used to get told that you needed to pack lots of water etc when travelling longdistance, in case you fell asleep with the long stretches and woke up off the road. Is that true, or just urban legend? Makes some sense to me – I would probably get thirsty regardless, and though it must be wonderful to be able to drive in a straight line for a long time, it might get a little tiresome 🙂 ….

This isn’t really a new and ridiculous rule, but one I am trying to work around. My 13 year old will be attending a summer day program at a local college soon. This college is about a mile from my house. Because I have to get my younger child to camp AND be at work at the same time as my daughter’s program starts, it would make my life a lot easier if she could just sign herself in and out and walk or ride her bike home. The college won’t let me even if I sign and notarize something saying I relieve them of all liability before and after she signs herself out. I know it is not a state regulation because a summer program she attends at a different college (further from our house at about 1.5 miles) lets her do it.

Here’s the thing – my daughter rides her bike and walks around this neighborhood all the time. She takes the city bus to school that goes right past this college. She goes to the supposedly “tough” school in town. She probably has more street smarts and knowledge of how to get around the neighborhood than the suburban older teens who will be supervising her until an adult signs her out.

I’m not sure what to do or whether to just suck it up and be late to things for a couple of weeks while she’s in this program.

I love my daughter’s camp. It’s a girls’ camp run by Catholic Sisters. The form is about a half a page long: Name, address, insurance information, etc. and “check which session” “any health issues?” and “who would you like to room with?”

While there this year, my daughter (who’s 15) was feeling a little constipated. This has been an issue for awhile, but not at the time we filed out the paperwork. She took some fiber tablets with her. On Wednesday, Sister called to let me know dd was wanting to take the tablets, but since I hadn’t mentioned them, she just wanted to double check. Dd had not taken this kind before and had asked Sister to help her figure out the dose. She didn’t read me the Riot Act for failing to disclose my daughter was carrying concelled medication, just asked if it was okay. I told her it was. Problem solved.

@theintentionalparent: I made the exact same assumption. I don’t think about perverts much, unless I have some immediate reason to. I don’t know anybody who thinks about perverts much (or if they are, they keep it to themselves).

So I wonder if sometimes the “us against them” vibe in these discussions actually emphasizes the worry about stranger danger. Are we becoming so vigilant about looking for what we feel are un-called for regulations that we forget we’d prefer not to worry about this stuff?

Maybe we could just take the forms at face value. Maybe that’s how they’re intended.

“Dolly, on July 8, 2011 at 19:51 said:
Marion: The thing is I don’t know ANYONE who just goes and gets allergy testing for no reason. It is expensive, time consuming and painful. ”

I know of a number of parents that include allergy testing as part of the usual trips to the pediatrician as you child grows up. You get vaccines and allergy tests. Partly because there seems to be a rise in allergies these parents think to get tested before their child has an actual reaction. I also know of at least two children personally who tested positive for nut and dairy allergies and it turns out they did not react to either food.

For years I worked at a private school where it seemed like almost all children had one allergy or another. I spoke with a friend of mine who is a parent and teacher in a completely different area of the country and in a school where the economic levels of the students were vastly different. She reported only one or two allergies in the entire school, instead of three or four in every class.

This is wild speculation and completely unscientific ramblings on my part, but I do wonder if there is not an economic factor in the number of allergies reported. Is there something about really good maternity care? Could it be that since peanut butter is provided by WIC, poorer children are more likely to get exposed in utero? Is it that the more well off families/those that have more comprehensive health insurance are getting tested more routinely for allergies and are running into the false positives that Marion was bringing up?

Please, please, please note, I am not saying this is the case of all children. There are a lot of really frightening life threatening allergies out there. For the most part too, I have been really impressed with the children’s abilities to be aware of their allergies and their mature reactions.

Wow Kate. That is one school my son would not be attending then. He has a life threatening peanut allergy and even though I send him with an epipen and I am going to teach him how to use it,. this policy would be unacceptable to me. I would be homeschooling him till I got it fought and changed.

ps- I live in a suburban white middle and upper middle class area too so in that case, we are the well off families and we still don’t get allergy testing done for no good reason.

Dolly, While the policy is harsh, given the actual situation I can’t imagine any adult being able to stand by and do nothing. Besides that, though, any child with LTA are required to bring 2 epi-pens to school. One stays in the child’s classroom and the other travels anywhere the child goes, to recess or to gym, etc. so it’s not as scary as you might otherwise think from my description.

My daughter just got back from running around on a special trek at Philmont Boy Scout Ranch for 20 days, and had a blast. She climbed mountains, did archery, worked in a forge hammering metal on an anvil, and loaded up a burro. They now have 2 rangers assigned to them instead of the one ranger that I had 30 years ago, and I wish that they had a little more of the freedom that we had then, but for the most part, they were still challenged. The health forms can probably be re used for future Scouting events and are pretty standard. BSA has pretty good insurance for individuals that comes with the scouts membership, and the paperwork is to help in the event of an accident.

Know what’s extra ridiculous about having the Dr. sign off on camp forms? They’re probably going to glance at it and sign it off. If it gets read at all, it will be by a nurse. All of our checks are meaningless.

oh my God – this morning I had to sign a release for my children to make “mud pies” on Friday at camp. They contain the evil ingredients of chocolate pudding, milk, oreos and gummy worms. I had to choose between “yes, they can have it”, “no, but they can have a sugar-free popsicle”, and “no, they may not have a snack”. REALLY? I had to sign a release for this? I know kids have lactose intolerance, but this camp is for kids 5-8 – do those kids not know how to handle it? I was APPALLED. As if we may sue the camp if our kids get fat from eating their mud pies!!!

No Kim, sounds like those measures have nothing to do with safety and everything to do with protecting themselves from liability.

I went to kids camp for a week, and i had expected it to be like the ones you see in brochures or movies. When we got to do activities, there was at least one guardian for every kid there. And on the canoe (or kayak whatever its called) race, one adult had to be on the boat with you! And they were not really doing outdoors activity because of some kids with allergies. I endes up leaving early and going to a christian camp. And its ironic that the religous camp was actually WAY more free range than the other camp.

I taught a week-long academic camp this summer, and it was stressed (verbally and in our camp handbook) that we were not allowed to release students to/from classes if there was thunder/lightning suspected or in the area. I understand this concern for an outdoor camp, but when students are not allowed to walk to the next building over on a college campus to eat lunch, it seems a little overboard. This year our handbook was thicker than last year’s version: there was an extra state-required abuse prevention/awareness/reporting section.

The leader made fake tiger prints in the sand at the volleyball court so the boys could earn the badge without leaving the park.

That sums up the problem very well. We don’t dare let our children experience real life, so we set up fake experiences that are safer. There’s a point to some of that (even the most daring gymnasts train with spotters), but then we do a greater disservice by encouraging them to believe the fraud was real, or as good as (“earn the badge”).

Hi Lenore! I love this site and I love the work you do. I was the director for the summer day camp offered by the school I work at up until last year, when I moved to another position and had a different set of responsibilities. The person who was hired as my replacement is great, but the parents are still nutty.

I always had complaints from parents about the strangest things. My favorite of all time was a parent who DEMANDED to know why I booked school busses without seat belts. I explained to her that where we live did not have a law requiring seat belts on school busses because they were safe enough, and so none of the companies that rented school busses actually had seat belts. She wanted the NAMES of people to complain to, so I gave her the name of our mayor. Then she wanted to know if she could follow the bus in her car to and from the trip because–and I quote–the bus could FLIP OVER. I don’t know how driving behind it would help, but it was all I could do not to laugh. She was also very disturbed to know we were going swimming in a pool because kids could DROWN. (With lifeguards and adults around?) I told her I hadn’t lost a kid yet. She was not amused.

This year I’m so glad not to be in charge anymore. With this crazy heat, parents are even crazier. First, the whole school bus thing came up again because the kids would be driving for 20 minutes WITHOUT AIR CONDITIONING! Gasp! Also, I had instituted a morning walk a few years ago. Each day from 8:30-9:00 the kids go for a nice long walk around the park. We’re in a city, and some of them don’t get a lot of time in green space. I had gone to a conference where there was a speaker who had done research on green space. He showed that just 20 minutes a day increases kids’ brain power and attention spans. They didn’t have to be doing anything–they just had to be around trees and grass. This was almost done away with as well, because again, the kids might all pass out and die from sweating, despite the fact that at 8:30 it’s only about 90 degrees.

Luckily, our principal is a great guy and actually got mad at the parents. The lunch aides had tried to ban tag, but he stepped in for that as well.

I hope that people really start getting a grip! Funny story: my almost two-year-old just learned how to get herself up on the couch, and now that’s all she wants to do. If she starts jumping on it, I remove her. Yesterday while with family, my aunt was quite disturbed I would allow her on the couch. After all, she could fall! She didn’t like it when I said if she fell she would learn not to do that anymore. (I didn’t tell her she already fell off our couch at home.) My cousin then moved to sit next to my daughter, who was laying on the couch, and held on to one of her legs “just in case”.

My daughter had a blast at girl scout camp a couple of weeks ago. While we were talking about camp told me some of the rules:

No running, skipping or jumping unless in an organized game.
No catching toads, frogs or bugs
No climbing trees.

I thought, and we wonder why the US has such a high obesity rate????

They had to be with a buddy but that is pretty standard.

My daughter cannot have artificial colors or flavors and has other restricts. I packed her food for the week. They were excellent at helping with that process.

Last summer when she was 8 I sent her to CAmp Awajah – a camp I grew up at in Minnesota. That camp is still pretty free range. I did notice that they took town the big rope swing that I enjoyed so much as a child:-) I am sure it is an insurance thing.