The Mom, Her Junior High Son & The Ladies’ Bathroom

My daughter is almost 4, and we’re working on going to the bathroom by herself in public. Unfortunately, at home she tends to de-pants enroute, and when I told her she could head to the restroom by herself at the frozen yoghurt place, she dropped her pants and started waddling her bare backside down the hall to the bathroom.

Next time, I think I will remind her to keep her pants up until she’s in the bathroom.

She’s my oldest, my son is almost potty training age, and we have another on the way. I can’t imagine herding three kids in a busy place like New York without their father, but I can tell you that as soon as my son is old enough to take his pants down, go, wipe, flush, pants up, and wash (and not make a crazy mess)- he’s on his own.

If we’re someplace crowded, or that I think would be an issue, sure, I might hang out outside the men’s room door, or tell him to wait for me by the ladies room when he’s finished.

I don’t understand- Should the rest of us be willing to risk an adolescent male in the women’s room where there are likely to be young girls? Maybe we should protest and tell her that her son is likely to be a rapist and may start groping the women while he is waiting for her.

I have four sons. My oldest is just about to turn 9 but as soon as he exhibited wanting some privacy and we started being more private about our bodies (about age 6 or 7) we sent him to the men’s restroom alone. My husband has had to take our little girl into the men’s when she was 3 but no older. Any older than that and he would either send her alone into the ladies or ask a complete stranger (gasp) to help her while she was in the ladies.

” Maybe we should protest and tell her that her son is likely to be a rapist and may start groping the women while he is waiting for her.”

One WOULD think that sauce for the goose would be sauce for the gander, but this is her precious little snowflake we’re talking about. Every other person on the planet is a potential rape suspect, but not HER little angel.

My son would have rather wet his pants … starting at about age 6. When exactly does she plan to allow him to grow up?

And yes, I would be mortified, and my daughter (11) would refuse to go in.

I feel really bad for that kid.

My son is 4, and I recently started letting him go to the men’s room alone, especially if I don’t have to go and can wait outside the whole time. If I have to go, he comes with me, but generally uses his own stall now. My gym has a locker room that only allows boys 4 and under in, and while I understand that locker rooms have a lot more nudity than your average public restroom, I thought 4 was a good time to start giving him a little independence in this area.

Of course, I know a lot of kids his age who are not fully potty trained yet (even my son needs reminders) so some parents really aren’t ready for this at 4.

My son insisted on going into the men’s bathroom alone when he was around 5. I guess I would be shunned by the helicopter parenting crowd because when I was alone with my son in a pubic place, and he had to use the bathroom, I would ask a man going in (usually one with a kid) to keep an eye on him. When he was first going into men’s bathrooms I would stand by the door. One time I happened to be looking in and a man was lifting my son up to help him reach the soap. My first thought was, “I taught the kid right because he’s washing his hands.”

Anyway, if I were a child molester, I would not pick a public bathroom as a place to molest a kid. There are too many potential witnesses. Molestation is usually done in a private place. Child molesters also take time to groom their victims. They are not going to be thinking ,”I was in the middle of peeing, but I think I’ll stop and molest this kid in front of everyone else in this bathroom.”

Now think about if this bathroom situation were reversed. How many fathers do you see taking their 12-year-old daughters into a men’s bathroom? Aren’t fathers worried about lesbians in the women’s bathroom molesting their daughters?

My son just turned 7 and he has been going in the mens’ room by himself for at least a year! My 4 and 5 year old daughters goes in the ladies’ room together as well.

I encourage my 10 y/o to use the men’s room. He’s tall; he might look even older than 10. He has autism (but few mannerisms that would suggest a difference; he just looks like some kid standing there) and high anxiety and irrational fears and is terrified of the flushing sounds and usually refuses. Sometimes I find a kind-looking man to enter the men’s room with him. (A stranger, yes!) Usually I just bring him into the women’s room with me, because he simply will not enter the men’s room. I advise him not to stare at people; maybe this makes it look like he’s embarrassed?

I wish he would use a public restroom on his own. He has mastered smaller places like churches and coffee shops and small libraries; bigger places like shopping malls and museums and large libraries are still a bust.

We are trying. He has improved much already, but it takes patience. Sorry to offend. Please don’t roll your eyes at me, or worse, at him.

Daven, while I was typing, I was thinking about the possibility of a special needs child, but didn’t add it to my post. Of course that’s different than a 12 year old not allowed to go potty by himself because his mother is afraid of molesters. The kid in the story sounds like he was trying to hide.

Have you tried finding the family restrooms in larger places? Most of them have them. Maybe he’d feel more comfortable if he were alone?

Had this story been about a father and his 12 year old daughter, the police would have been called and charges would have been filed. So why is it okay and just another over protective mom simply because it’s a mom and son verses a father and daughter?

To Daven – great response as often people don’t think of children with special needs when they are judging or shaming other parents with their dagger looks eye rolls. My typically functioning 7 year old has been using the men’s room on his own for about a year. My autistic 4 year old also feels nervous about flushing toilets and hand dryers so it may take some time to get him into the men’s room on his own. That doesn’t mean we won’t keep trying and he’s not with me because the men’s restroom is crawling with predators. The mother’s response to the guard didn’t sound like this was the case but she may not have wanted to call out the kid’s issues in front of him and embarrass him further. We try not to make it an excuse or talk about our son as if he wasn’t there to explain what is going on. It’s really not anyone else’s business.

@Daven–on the contrary, I would ASSUME any 12-year-old in the Women’s room with his mom had special needs. On the other hand, good for you encouraging him to overcome his anxieties. I know it’s not easy with others staring and judging…if only we would all live and let live.

Wasn’t there an article a while back with a comment from a guy who took his daughter into the men’s room with him, which is possibly even worse?

My son has been agitating to go to the men’s bathroom by himself since he was three (he just turned 4). He certainly has his own stall in the ladies, and queues properly. I’m mostly there to help him with high sinks in public places now.

Weirdly, at home he insists on company when he goes to the loo. It’s only when we are out that he wants to fly solo.

I’ve let him go into the mens with a passing dad already, and I pretty much planned to let him go alone as soon as he could reach the sink and soap. It’s not as though men talk or look at each other in the men’s room, from what I understand that’s a complete no-no.

H

Daven, I’m with Gina. An older child (of either sex) with an adult present shows that the child still needs assistance, which in Lenore’s case, this young man clearly does not. He was embarrassed and prevented from toileting himself because his mom has irrational fears.

Of all things that are therapy-inducing, this must be up there pretty high. I’d guess even as high as a traumatic men’s bathroom event. Forcibly taking someone into an opposite sex bathroom repeatedly because it makes the mom feel better is not only cruel, it’s psychotic.

There is probably no essential reason why we need separate restrooms for males and females. Men con’t presently walk around a men’s room with my junk displayed. Do women?

I don’t think it’s right for a mother to be going into the restroom with a kid over about 5 (though sadly, I know that nowadays many kids aren’t even potty trained at 5), but I don’t get the big deal about other genders going into the same bathroom. If you don’t think your son is going to be molested by a man in the men’s bathroom, there’s no reason to think a male going into the women’s restroom is going to molest someone there, either. Sure in the men’s bathroom they may whip out their junk in the open to use a urinal, but that doesn’t happen in the women’s restroom, and anyone that doesn’t want to be seen can use a stall. So I don’t get the embarrassment, nor the need for separate restrooms. I would not freak out if a teenage male went into the restroom if my daughter was in there (I might wonder about it, figure the men’s bathroom must be gross or have no toilet paper or something, or maybe even it is a female that looks like a male, but I would not stop them nor worry about my daughter). In non-public restrooms, everyone uses the same restroom.

I also don’t think it’s right to limit ages in family restrooms. I can’t let one of my older kids accompany the younger to the FAMILY restroom? At what age are they okay to go in again; what about teen parents? Are people that LOOK young required to show ID (I often get asked if I am the mom or the teenage sister or babysitter)?

But despite all that, I do think it is right for kids to use the bathroom on their own. Obviously this is not an issue with teenagers, but I wish public restrooms were better equipped for children, and/or people that are helping toddlers actually use the toilet and wash their hands.

Last week right before our son’s basketball game my husband used the men’s room and inside was one of the players from the other team as well as his dad, who waited for him by the sinks. This is a small gym facility (not at a school). The boys are 12. I don’t think it was about child predators, but because our son’s team is the only team in our league that is inside the city and we were playing (at home) against one of the suburban teams. Unfortunately, a lot of suburbanites around here are afraid of the city and apparently that includes its bathrooms.

My guess is they were tourists. That being said, I am sad to say a number of my NYC friends take their boys into the women’s room past what I consider an acceptable age of 5 or 6. They, in turn, think I am crazy for sending my 5 years old boys into the men’s room alone. Honestly, my biggest fear is that the boys will get distracted and start abusing the hand dryers. I know when it is happening, b/c men come out of the facilities chuckling, and I can hear the yells as the door opens. Worst thing that has ever happened to my kids in the men’s room? I sent a stranger back in to tell them their mom was waiting outside.

Joslyn, thanks for your post and the reminder that we should not be so quick to judge because of course you are right, we do not know the whole story. I am sure we all tell our kids that all the time but we need to do it ourselves too.

@Joslyn while that may be true, the mom acting anxiously (which she did by talking in a panicked voice) is only going to make his anxieties worse.

My youngest is 3 and autistic, and if my husband or I mention one of our own anxieties, it sticks with my youngest forever. If we react anxiously to one of his anxieties, that confirms that it is something to be anxious about, and makes his anxieties worse. Even if what we are SAYING is “it’s going to be okay,” he hears the anxiety in our voices.

By the time the kid is a teenager, the mom should have learned to talk in such situations without anxiety in her voice; even if she IS feeling anxiety or nervousness at the time.

My son is six, and I give him the choice of going to the men’s room alone or accompanying me to the ladies’ room. I’d say he goes alone about half the time. (If it’s single occupancy, I send him in alone unless I have to go too! When I have to use the toilet, I usually bring him with me.)

I have only been able to send him in alone for about six months, as prior to that he had a tendency to do things like lock the stall door and crawl out under it! Obviously I did not want to risk his making the stall inaccessible for the next guy. Interestingly, he stopped doing that around the same time he started consistently washing his hands.

I let my 10-year old son (who looks and acts much younger) use the men’s bathroom alone at the Port Authority bus terminal in NYC, but I did wait right near the entrance and was a little nervous until he emerged. It’s kind of a seedy place.

The “maybe he had special needs” defense only goes so far. If he did, she was lying about her motivation, so that’s a completely different problem, but still makes her not-a-great-parent, teaching her kid by example to lie about his issues. (I’m not saying it’s wrong in that situation to be discreet about his issues, but substituting made-up garbage like “the times in which we live” for the truth goes beyond discretion.)

So it seems like those who would defend her from the charge of being overprotective are trying to make her look better by saying she’s being dishonest in an ignorant way. It really doesn’t help the situation much.

We have this problem at the pool where my daughter is on the swim team–moms taking their much too old sons into the women’s changing room. The changing room is full of naked girls and women–how embarrassing for these poor boys who are totally capable of changing by themselves in the boy’s room. The other day a boy from her 4th grade class was taken into the women’s changing room while she was changing in there. SO embarrassing for both of them!

I have two boys. I think at age 5 we will allow them to use the mens room by themselves, assuming they are comfortable.

Another thought… probably an unpopular opinion… maybe if we didn’t raise our children to be such wusses, we would all feel more comfortable with them being independent and using the bathroom by themselves. These days our children are generally proficient at video games and doing homework and not a lot else. They often have no real responsibilities or skills and are generally lacking in street smarts and common sense. I know there are exceptions out there, and I do think children are smarter than we give them credit for, but with the way parents treat and teach their children these days, you’d think they were incapable of anything beyond pushing play on the remote.

gap.runner typed “pubic place.” Hee. My maturity level is showing.

Our gym also has a locker room where boys are not supposed to go in after age 4. My oldest boy just turned 5, so I’m grappling with this. Not because I’m afraid of what could happen to him in there, but because I’m afraid of what could happen to the poor locker room if he goes in by himself. My other son is 3.5, so this would also involve splitting them up, which brings its own challenges. So, I think I’ll have his male swim teacher give him a tour of the locker room. Then I will hand him his swim-clothes and a bag, tell him to go in, change clothes, bring everything out with him in the bag (there’s no way he would remember what locker he put stuff in), and reverse the process when it’s over. It’s going to be very tricky, because he is at his silliest and giddiest around his swim lesson. But without the audience of me and his brother, I think he might just do what he needs to do and be done with it.

Any logistical pointers from anyone that has had to send young boys into a locker room alone?

Holy cow! Junior high kids are TEENAGERS! Do these moms not realize that these kids go to the bathroom fine on their own at school? Or any other time they are not with them? Or are they just with them all the time? That is just plain crazy. My kids have been going to the bathroom in separate restrooms alone pretty much since they were potty trained well enough to not need assistance. I remember being at the zoo sending my boys in to the men’s room while I took my daughter into the women’s restroom. My boys were 6, 5, and 3 then and I remember getting looks from parents, but I was not about to take three boys into the women’s restroom with me and I knew they could manage on their own. Crazy, crazy! Junior high age. How embarrassing for those boys.

My youngest, who will turn 5 in a few days, has been potty trained since she was 2 ½. When she first started going by herself, she got traumatized by the automatic flushers. She was just too tiny for the sensor to see, so they always flushed on her little bare bottom!

So now it’s often a fight to get her to go in a public bathroom, unless she *knows* it’s not automatic. And if it is, I have to squeeze into the stall with her and cover up the sensor with my hand so she can safely go. (I tried using my purse once, so I didn’t have to bend over, but I accidently hit the button and flushed on her anyway.) This was so much fun at Disney, where EVERY toilet is automatic.

This is just gross. A boy going through puberty should not have the opportunity to walk by my stall while I am trying to change my tampon. His mom was not comfortable letting him be in the big boy bathroom, but what about my comfort level in the big girl room?

Agreed Amanda, my kids are both very tall. There are certainly kids in my daughters class that I wouldn’t send to a public restroom solo because they are just too short to navigate the grown up fixtures.

Something else to consider is the psychological fears that this mom is putting into her child about public restrooms. I know a neighborhood mom who is an absolute fanatic about public restrooms and the danger and germs that lurk in there. Her son (who is 10) was so scared of using them that he wouldn’t go at all during school and developed anal fissures and other gastrointestinal complications from holding it in for 7 hours.

At our local indoor pool, there are signs on both the womens and mens changerooms/washrooms that clearly state that children over age 6 must change in their own sex’s room (or use the single ‘family’ changeroom). I think that age is appropriate. My oldest son started in the men’s room by himself when he was about 51/2; my younger son was only 4 – but he went with his older brother.

I think my boys were probably both about 6 when they went to the washroom by themselves at restaurants, etc. My daughter is 5 – I still help her because she has trouble getting on/off the toilet and reaching the taps at msot places. It’s not about her not being able to handle it on her own – it’s about her being too short!

My now-10-year-old would be absolutely mortified if I made him use the ladies room!

While I understand that young adults with special needs, may need adult assistance, I also understand that everyone else has the right to their comfort.

I am sorry for those that feel I am being cold or insensitive, but your child/teen/young adult with special needs is your responsibility, not the other dozen people in the restroom.

Personally I think you are wrong for using an open restroom like that, when you can easily find a family one, or use one at a coffee shop, or restaurant, where you can have the room to yourself.

Yes we as a society need to make allowances for those with special needs, but those with special needs also need to have respect for the rest of us, and realize that though they have special needs, it does not in fact make them special.

No way, my son was about 6 when he said that he would go to the men’s room to use the bathroom. No way, no how was he stepping in the women’s room.Most awesome website for free classified ads with unlimited photos http://www.planetadvert.com

At what age can a teenage boy end up on the sex offenders list for ‘loitering’ in the ladies’ toilets? There must be a fine line for some cases, possibly even an overlap?

Helicopter parenting, it can get you coming AND going…

Somewhat off topis, butI also think the ‘gendered’ restrooms are rather silly. I has always bugged me to stand in the long women’s line when there is none for the men’s room. Seems so inefficient. Additionally Warren, while new places tend to have ADA and family restrooms seperated, most places I go have the ADA stall in the ‘gendered’ restroom, and people with disablities as well as thier caregivers have every right to use the facility. In college I cared for a teenage boy with physical challenges and sometimes we had to use the ‘main’ facilites. I took him in the mens room and assisted him in the ADA stall. If at all possible, I’d try to wait for the restroom to empty. Just as someone with special needs isn’t ‘special’ – you are not entitled to privilege just because you are phycially and nuerologically typical. if share public space with someone who is different than you is uncomfortable, I think that’s your problem.

Scenario, I have a 6 year old in the women’s by herself, and that 12 year old was going in, I would stop him, mother or not, and refuse to allow him access to the women’s restroom.

Oh, for crying out loud. It’s a bathroom. Why does it matter if a boy uses the ladies room or a girl uses the men’s room? People generally think it’s a bigger deal if a little girl goes to the men’s room…but most men would behave properly when they noticed the little girl…as I imagine most men behave properly even without the presence of a little girl.

If the boy in the original story had no special reason (the mom with the autistic boy, above, is a good example) to stay with his mom, he should have enough backbone to refuse to go with his mom. I can’t imagine my 14 y/o son standing for my insistence that he go with me to the restroom.

On the other hand, we have no idea why that mom insisted, nor do we have any idea why he pulled his hood up. Letting him use the ladies room should cause no stir whatsoever. What exactly do you think your little girl would see?

More specifically, what traumatic event do you think could happen to her in there that she could not manage with your help? And why do you think it would happen?

I have a personal comfort level up to about 7 or 8. After that I would think it’s ridiculous they are in there. However, I have to disagree with posters who are sending their 3, 4, 5 year olds in alone who are not yet capable of handling their own toileting needs, and then asking and expecting someone else to help their child use the restroom and wash their hands. That’s not free range. That’s expecting someone else to do your parenting for you. I think the child needs to be independent in their toileting needs before being set free. They shouldn’t have to need someone else to keep an eye on them or help them wash their hands. Even if they want to go into the proper bathroom, they need to understand they can do so as soon as they can wipe, pull up their pants and reach the sink and are capable of washing their own hands. I personally would find it rude to be asked by a dad to help his little girl go potty when he is more than capable. I would wonder why he just doesn’t take her in the men’s room himself. Is he that afraid of perverts? Same thing if I were a man being asked by a woman. So, yeah, my only requirement would be that they have the independence to go alone. I wouldn’t want to impose on someone else that I am sure has better things to do than wipe my kid or wash their hands.

And by “waaaaaay more likely” I mean there was an odd chance in the 70s that you might encounter a creep in the men’s room, especially at a bus station… but then compared with today, it would be more likely you’d encounter a hippopotamus. (And hippos are very dangerous!)

The idea that he had special needs occurred to me, as well, but when the security guard stopped the mother, why didn’t she just say so? I know some of you would say that it’s no one’s business, but honestly, in this situation, it would have been the security officer’s business to know that sort of thing, because this is a matter of public modesty and safety, aka her job.

I have a friend with a very clearly disabled 12 year old boy and he may never be fully toilet trained. She looks for family bathrooms whenever possible and takes him to the mens room when he needs to go and if she has to take him with her when she needs the toilet she will but no one likes it, least of all him. She has never been given a hard time by either gender since it is obvious he needs supervision and assistance. That said, if this kid had special needs the mother should have said so because people are MUCH more understanding and yelling at the security guard was ridiculous.

Restaurants and such may be an option in some places, but not all. If I’m shopping in my neighborhood, there’s sure to be a small restaurant or cafe nearby, or a store where I am friends with the owners, or even a friend’s house where I could use the restroom… but if I’m in the next city over, or a couple of cities over – both of which I go to often to do my grocery shopping – there are no small businesses, there are no family restrooms. I’d have to load everyone in the car, drive somewhere else, and get the kid that needs to use the toilet out of the car. Which means the person may have to hold it until I’m done shopping. Which I’m not going to encourage… my autistic son has had issues from holding it too long when only port-a-potties were available (too dirty in his mind), the restroom was dirty or the restroom was too busy/noisy.

So I would say that saying disabled people should find another restroom is going to far, because that can actually cause health problems. The comfort of others doesn’t trump your comfort, but the health of others trumps your comfort.

If your dad, in addition to the shoulder surgery, had some issue that prevented him from holding it in long enough (or had some issue that made holding it in risky) to get to another restroom, or if those other restrooms weren’t available, I’m pretty sure your mom would do what needs to be done and either take him in the womens’ or go with him into the mens’ restroom.

Anyway, it’s irrelevant to this situation, because the teen in question was obviously mentally developed enough to be embarrassed, and obviously physically able to go into the stall and use the toilet himself. I don’t think that would be much different than mom standing at the door of the men’s restroom and telling him from there that she will be right there. If that makes him a bit uncomfortable (being a few more feet away from mom), then THAT would be something HE has to deal with – because his comfort doesn’t trump the comfort of others. If, what I suspect was more likely the case, him being a few more feet away from mom makes HER uncomfortable, then that is something she should deal with. But she shouldn’t make him hold it in while she finds/travels to another restroom.

@Mike H.- Your story reminds me of the quote by Fred Rogers about helpers:

“When I was a boy and I would see scary things in the news, my mother would say to me, ‘Look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping.’ To this day, especially in times of ‘disaster,’ I remember my mother’s words, and I am always comforted by realizing that there are still so many helpers – so many caring people in this world.” — Mister Rogers

@ Warren, can you imagine the look on the mom’s face if you told her you didn’t want her 12 year-old p***y boy in the same restroom as you kindergarten daughter, thus flipping her baby from a possible victim to a possible sex offender? That’s soooo rich!!

I work at a daycare center. Our three year olds can often go alone, if potty trained. I usually wait outside for the boys and the girls certainly get their own stalls– it’s part of the permission slip parents sign, if it is not signed there’s a fee because it does create extra work to drag kids into bathrooms.

@ gap.runner I feel as if you are wondering why there is so much concern surrounding the mens room and if there is a real threat wouldn’t it be equal from one genders facilities to the other…

“Aren’t fathers worried about lesbians in the women’s bathroom molesting their daughters?”

but just to clarify child molesters and lesbians are far from the same thing!

squishymama – Mini sticky notes are the key to avoiding unwanted auto-flush! I used to keep a few in my purse when my son was little. Show your daughter how to put one over the sensor before she sits down, and she won’t get splashed any more.

Maybe it is a difference between Dads and Moms.

If for whatever reason, even when there is no special needs involved, just say a 2 or 3 year old, a Dad takes his daughter into the men’s room, alot of times there is a “Sorry guys, got my daughter in here.” type of shout out. Urinals aside, guys still come out of the stalls doing up their pants and belts.

Me and the other Dad’s I know, do this out of respect for the men in the restroom. It avoids embarassing situations, and is a matter of respect.

If a private or single restroom isn’t available, at least have the respect to let other’s know, there is someone of the opposite sex, in the room. Is all I am saying.

Here’s a question that keeps going through my head:

At what point does that young man end up on the sex offender registry? Seems to me that if he went in the women’s bathroom by himself, he would end up in juvenile court.

What makes this not a crime?

My son is 5 and has been going on his own to public restrooms for a while. If he’s taking too long (he loves to play with the dryers), I asked a man going in to tell him to hustle. Works every time.

@Amanda Dickens – you’re not Amanda from Greytown, are you?

That woud be too much of a coincidence – but if you are, big hellos! 🙂

I’m amazed at how upset some people are over this issue. Look, I think it’s ridiculous for an older boy to go with his mom in the bathroom too, but to label him a pervert or a criminal is over the top. Although I do find it odd when I saw an older boy in the women’s room with his mom I can’t really say it makes me feel violated or anything. There are still private stalls. A locker room at a pool or gym would be a different story as I do get undressed out in the open there.

I CANNOT believe this! I have never seen this, but I would say something to that mom about how gross it was for ME to have to share a bathroom with her random son. Triple yuck! Us girls like to keep our bathrooms clean too, no teenage boys allowed. 🙂

Unfortunately I have seen this situation at least 3 times in the last 6 months this very situation. With 12 or 13 year old boys who are taller than me in a women’s room. The worst was when I was with my girls 11 and 6 and a mother brought her son into the ladies. He did not even have to go and just stood by the sinks he could have clearly waited by the door outside. I was so annoyed I said something to her. My girls were uncomfortable and embarrassed. The boy was clearly embarrassed and normal not special needs.

Wow, if I had witnessed this I would have made the assumption that maybe the boy was physically or mentally challenged. My son is six & if he was ready & willing I would let him go alone.

My son started using public washrooms solo at age 5 and my daughter was 4 (always trying to keep up to her older brother!). The dilemma we face now is using public change rooms at the local pool. Our town rules are that children 6 and under can be in opposite gender change rooms. My 8 year old refuses to use the men’s change room on his own so we’re stuck in the family change rooms. I hate them! They’re over-crowded with parent/child combos of the same gender or a mother AND father for their 1 or 2 children, or one parent with children clearly under age 6. I wish they would go to the single gender change rooms so those of us who have to use the family change rooms will have stalls available for us because we often have to wait up to 15 minutes, dripping wet, until a stall frees up (and you aren’t allowed to change in the comunal areas since it’s men and women). I really want to send my son in on his own but he doesn’t want to go alone so now I’m stuck in family change room hell.

My nephew is 5. The biggest problem we have had with him going to the bathroom by himself is
a – he can’t reach the sinks to wash his hands.
b – he can’t get out of the bathroom because the door is to heavy.

A couple of times a man has said “umm I helped him wash his hands” like they expect me to react badly. I’ve always said thank you. One time B panicked when he couldn’t open the door – and started screaming. We were in a small kolache shop with 1 user bathrooms. A man was going into the bathrooms and rescued B. I had heard the screaming, and headed in to get the door open. Poor man looked so stricken and stammered “The door was stuck” I just thanked him and made sure B did to.

We were at the museum with a group of cousins. The boys (8, 6, 5, 4) all trooped into the men’s room together. A lady turned and asked us you letting them go in there by themselves. The boys looked at her and said “We’re boys” and “there are 4 of us”. Seriously – If someone tried something the boys would rip that person up. My niece nearly broke a woman’s nose once when the woman tried to “rescue” her from the chin up bar (L was trying to do a penny drop)

This is totally off-topic but this is an opportunity to share what my daughter and I go through with a group of parents who I believe will be open-minded. I have to take these opportunities to hopefully make the world a more understanding one for my daughter. My children, two daughters aged 5 and 7, are being raised free-range. However, I do have to go into the bathroom with my 7-year-old because she dresses and presents as a boy. I don’t mean that she is a tomboy. I mean that no one we meet ever knows she is a girl until we tell them so. She is terrified to go into the men’s room or the women’s room by herself for all the various reasons you might imagine. I know our situation is very unique and the woman in the story here made her reasons very clear – but I look forward to a time when we don’t assume we know who someone is by looking at them. The few times my daughter has overheard someone asking why there’s a boy in the ladies room she’s been mortified. It’s only going to become more difficult to escort her as she gets older. Again, something very unusual and completely off-topic but the first thing I thought when I read the description of the boy pulling his coat over his head was “Maybe he’s a girl”. When I realized he was not, then yes, the mother in this story has worked herself into a ridiculous panic.

I can just see it now, when the boy is 18 yrs old, and gets caught in a women’s restroom………………..”But my Mommy let’s me.”, isn’t gonna cut it with a judge.

I have 3 kids, an almost 7yo son, a 5yo daughter and an almost 3yo son. My children a go to the toilet on their own (except 3yo son obviously), my eldest doesn’t like to use the ladies so I usually take my kids to the disabled or parenting toilets as they are cleaner then the mens. When at a swimming pool or McDonalds etc I will let my kids go on their own while I sit with the food. I even let them go play while I order . I live right across the road from my Childrens school, I would be quite happy to let them walk on their own, but at my husbands insistence I walk them there, he doesn’t trust them to look properly when crossing the road.
we are from western Australia

“If you go in there alone someone will take you.”

HOW?! Through the air vents? Most of the washrooms I know have only one exit and the parent can stand outside and watch it.

Seriously, if they’re capable of going to the washroom alone at school, they can go alone to a public washroom. However I agree with another reader who said that some parents have made their kids so anxious about going to the washroom, either because of molesting/kidnapping or germs, that they refuse to go at school either. Not doing their kids any favours.

I’ve been trying to encourage my oldest child, age 4, to use public restrooms alone for nearly a year. She uses familiar park restrooms alone now. She will sometimes use a restroom alone in a familiar restaurant as long as I walk to the door of the restroom with her.

When I was 9, my grandmother took my brother, age 7, and I on a trip to the zoo. We had to pee into a coffee can in the car because of her fear of public bathrooms. A year later, she took us to visit our cousin in another state. While visiting, we all went to the zoo in my cousin’s city. She made all 4 of us (two girls age 10 and one boy age 8 and our grandmother) somehow cram into one non-handcap-accesible bathroom stall to pee. It was humiliating and horrible. We protested and tried to convincer her that we should use the stall one at a time with everyone else waiting right outside that stall’s door, but she wouldn’t consider it. She was very, very afraid that someone would molest or kidnap us in the bathroom.

Meanwhile, our own father was exposing himself to us and beating us until our backs bled. I have wondered if her irrational fear of strangers in the bathroom was some way to stop worrying about what her own family members were doing to us. If you worry enough about something that will never happen, you might not have the energy to think about wrongs that you should actually do something about.

For all those stating that we don’t know the kids history or background and that there may be a medical or mental heatlh issue as to why he’s going with his mother, I’d like to point out it was the mother saying that it was unsafe for him to go alone. SHE is saying that it’s these times we live in, SHE didn’t say he is a special needs kid. There will always be exceptions, but most the time there isn’t.

My daughter goes to school with a boy whose mother is over protective of her son. Sounds like the Mum in this story. My daughter has a nick name for the boy and Mum at her school. She calls the boy Raymond and the Mum Marie. I guess if we want to see what the future will be for that boy is to watch reruns of Everybody Loves Raymond.

In many European countries, they have unisex toilets AND, they have open saunas where people of all ages and genders sit there…NAKED!

Europeans can be so far ahead of the Puritanical West.

Oh brother. My son has been using the men’s bathroom by himself since he was 5. When he was 5 I would wait outside the door, but I certainly didn’t go in and I didn’t bring him to the women’s room with me. Last summer we were in Chicago and a brand new Target had opened up downtown. In we went, the place was a madhouse and I had to go to the bathroom. Of course, there was a huge line. My son, age 10 at the time, just sat on a bench outside the bathroom and waited for me to finish. He was alone in downtown Chicago, waiting for me. He had no phone. This was his first time in Chicago. Neither of us had any concerns about him waiting for me by himself in a store. The line was so long I was gone about 20 minutes and he had to fend for himself. There was absolutely no problem. A little while later we were eating lunch somewhere, I don’t remember where, and guess what? Yeah, he had to use the bathroom. He asked me if I knew where it was, I said I did not and he should go ask someone. He got up, asked someone where the bathroom was, and he went to the bathroom. Out of my sight, in a big city. 10 years old. My kid will be able to function very nicely when he’s an adult, I feel very sorry for the middle school student who is forced to use the wrong bathroom.

Charles — there is nothing to fear for a half-grown boy going into a restroom alone, under normal circumstances.

There is also nothing to “fear” from a boy using a woman’s restroom, but it’s inappropriate and deemed an invasion of privacy by the general understanding of our culture, and by many of the individual women and girls in our culture.

That desire for privacy should be respected unless there’s an actual reason (i..e. not a made up, paranoid fear) to do otherwise.

I agree with Warren, Donna, and Pentamom. Yes, I’m in favour of inclusion for people with special needs, but I also believe that everyone should learn and follow the rules of polite society, so that we can all get along. Also, no one person, or subset of people, should have to make ALL the accommodations, as it seems that the women’s bathroom/changeroom is often used as the default “women, disabled individuals, and boys up to middle school age” bathroom. I’ve run into problems like these on many occasions. For example:

-When I was in university, the fitness facilities on campus had changerooms for men and women, but no children’s or family changerooms. This made sense, because universities aren’t designed to cater to children or families; they’re intended for adults. However, they offered children’s swimming, basketball, etc., programs on the weekends, to make more money (because, you know, the university didn’t charge us enough for tuition), and on weekends, the women’s changeroom would be flooded with boys, some of them well into school age. When I complained about this, I was told that I had to just live with it, because “What if Dad can’t be there?” Meanwhile, my first two years of undergrad, I was involved in a program called Big Buddies, and I was matched up with a little boy who was eight when we joined the program, so, about the same age as some of the “interlopers” in the women’s change room. When we went swimming on campus, he changed by himself in the men’s change room, while I changed in the women’s. Nothing ever went wrong, except for me having to rush through and meet him on the other end, and walk back to my building with frozen hair in the winter. Anyway, sadly, although my Little Buddy and I followed the rules, we were the exception to the rule–most people decided that gender assignments on the changerooms were just suggestions, and couldn’t possibly apply to their little snowflake.

-A few years ago, I was swimming at the YMCA, and a group of mentally challeneged young people (all boys, for some reason) came in with their caregivers (all female, for some reason, so I don’t hazard to guess how they handled the changeroom thing). Anyway, at one point, one boy started mouthing the gutter water at the side of the pool, and then spitting it back out into the gutter. When I alerted one of the caregivers, she said “Oh, yeah, he’s autistic, he likes the water.” I then told the powers-that-be about this, because it could be a health issue–and it was also in the dead of winter, during flu season, so I hope the caregivers didn’t blame the YMCA if that boy got sick.

-When I was thirteen, I went to summer camp as usual (I went to the same camp from ages 10-16), and when I arrived, there was a girl in my cabin who was mentally handicapped, and attending through a program called Project Rainbow. There were four sets of bunk beds in our cabin, set up in the middle of the floor, two by two, with an “aisle” down the very middle of the cabin. We also had three counsellors, who were in single beds in the corners. Anyway, the Project Rainbow girl (let’s call her Skye, for simplicity’s sake), were in adjacent bottom bunks. Since Skye was fourteen, but functioning at more of a kindergarten level, she’d get super excited and keyed up at night, and she’d actually steady herself against the posts of her bunk bed, and kick me….repeatedly. When I complained, I was accused of being “intolerant.” When I asked one of the counsellors if she’d switch beds with me (after I’d already been putting up with several nights of being kicked), I was told that this wasn’t possible, for “sexual reasons.” This was from a counsellor who was only four years older than I was, so technically still a minor, but for some reason, it made a difference. Anyway, no alternative solutions were proposed, no one offered to rotate sleeping next to Skye; I was just blamed as being the “problem,” and treated like a bully, just for wanting to sleep in peace.

Anyway, back to my main point–yes, children, older people, and people with disabilities should be more than welcome to interact with the world, shop at the mall, swim at the YMCA, attend summer camp, etc., but they should first be taught how to behave in those places, or else the world just might “interact” right back, and tell them that they’re behaving inappropriately. One thing I hate is people who say “It takes a village to raise a child,” and then complain when they don’t like what the “village” has to say, even if it’s “Stop kicking me,” or “Gutter water isn’t for drinking.” You can’t have it both ways.

@Charles I think 2 is an embarrassment issue, not a risk of molestation issue (except with Warren).

Not that I really understand that either. I don’t want a woman opening my stall door while I’m changing my tampon any more than I want a man doing it (to use one person’s example); but I don’t expect ANYONE to open the stall door while it’s shut and locked, man nor woman. And if someone is really determined to come in and open the stall door, I don’t think a sign on the outside of the restroom door is going to stop them.

The only sense I can make of this is the fact that women often “hang out” in womens’ restrooms, talking about things they don’t want males to hear, fixing their makeup when many of them don’t want anyone seeing them without it? I never did that stuff, so maybe that is why I don’t understand it.

Or maybe it is the fact that I’m equally embarrassed by a random woman seeing me use the toilet, change clothes etc. as I am a random man. If they aren’t my husband or my kids (and I’m equally unembarrassed if it’s my sons or my daughter) I don’t want them seeing me, no matter their gender…

@Warren “I would have gone in and dragged him out” Oh, but as soon as you go in, my husband has to rush in and punch you for going into the restroom while MY daughter is in there! 🙂

@Karen: “It’s really not anyone else’s business.”

Wrong, Karen. It is “the business” of anyone using the public restroom who is allowed in and who not.

@Charles: “Does it really matter who poops with whom?”

Yes, Charles. You don’t get to pick your own social norms from a menu. The culture as a whole picks them.

The odds of a normal 13yo boy trying to get a “look” at something in a ladies restroom are probably much higher than any risks that same boy faces in the mens room. 13yo boys in general are a relatively uncivilized subset of the species.

I remember up until the age of 7 or 8, my dad would take me with him to use public washrooms. I’m sure it was for the efficiency, rather than fear of leaving me and my siblings alone outside. We’ve also been left alone outside when we said we didn’t have to go. If it had been only my mother, she would get us to come with her to the women’s washroom. Again, if we didn’t have to go, we’d be left outside to wait. But by the age of 8-9, I refused to go inside the women’s washroom with my mother when I had to go. And would just run into the men’s washroom. My mom, never came in after me, never made an issue when I came out. The only thing she made sure of was that I washed my hands. And the funny thing about that, if I said “I forgot”, she’d make me wipe them on my pants. That was our “hand sanitizer”. lol

People are probably going to hate me for this, but I don’t think hand sanitizer is inherently bubble-wrappish and paranoid; it all depends on how you use it. If I go to a high-traffic public place (shopping mall, library, bus station, etc.), and there’s a hand sanitizer pump there, for anyone to use, then I’ll sanitize my hands, especially if it’s in the middle of winter flu season. Also, when I was living/studying in Australia, for some reason, the women’s bathroom in the university’s Creative Arts building never had any soap, so I’d always bring hand sanitizer in my backpack on days when I planned to be in that building for any length of time. However, I think the current culture of antibacterial everything, and kids going to school with little bottles of hand sanitizer on lanyards, is excessive. Besides, what would happen if someone’s Purell lanyard were to get caught on the monkey bars or something? Hello, choking hazard.

Ok to the one that responded with, have you never gone into the wrong bathroom………..no I have not.
And I would not assume that a teenage boy would do it by mistake, since oh I don’t know the constant stream of men using one door, and women using the other, is usually a good indicator.

As for dragging him out. Very simple, do you think it would be better to stand in there and hold a conversation with him, or remove him.

And for the record, no I do not need to protect my daughters from attack, as they are a couple of tough chicks.
But when they and other ladies will be in their stalls, unaware of this guys presence, it is my duty to be the gentleman and find out what is going on. I never said I was going to hurt him, just remove him. Big difference.

And to the lady with the husband, tell him to sit down, because he really wouldn’t want to intervene and get hurt.

Okay, Emily, the gutters must work differently than the ones I’m familiar with. What I envisioned was just a place where the water slopped into to keep it from overflowing, but there was nothing to stop it slopping right back into the pool, and vice versa. I don’t think there was any kind of filtration in that setup — the filter openings are on the sides of the pool.

That should be Jemma and not Helms. Not sure how autocorrect went there.

I wish you could come do a workshop in my neighborhood. In our old neighborhood my daughter would run from house to house with a group of kids. It started when she was 4 (almost 5). They came over to our house to play, then wanted to go somewhere else so I let her go too. I reminded her to look both ways and asked the other kids to keep an eye on her (at first). Pretty soon she was doing fine on her own and I wasn’t worried about cars (I’d already read your book so I never worried about strangers).

I was so used to this life that when we moved last year it never occurred to me that a nice, quiet neighborhood set back away from busy streets and the home to a number of sheriff’s deputies and police officers would be the complete opposite. The parents here don’t let their kids walk down the street without an escort-even the older kids. Elayna is 6 now and this weekend she walked down (by herself) to play with a 9 year old friend. The friend was sick but the parents wouldn’t send my daughter back because they were afraid to let her go that far by herself (she walked down okay alone but somehow they couldn’t let her go home alone). Instead she stayed at their house exposed to germs (which to me is MUCH worse than walking down the street alone) until we came down to see why the girls hadn’t come back to our house. I’m afraid my neighbors are going to think we’re just pawning her off on them when really she’s inviting her friends to come play with her. Not to mention it’s exhausting for me to stop whatever I’m doing so I can escort a 9 year old!? less than a block. At 9 I was riding to the library, pool, and grocery by myself-sometimes up to a mile away. I don’t understand why the kids in my neighborhood can’t walk a block.

” Particularly because this is being done soley for THE MOTHER/CAREGIVER’S OWN comfort. I’ve never been to a place that had women’s bathrooms but not men’s — with shorter lines since we are so concerned with going immediately. I imagine that even disabled men want to use the men’s room and not the ladies room. It seems you are taking your pubescent son into the ladies because you are more comfortable going in there than helping him in the men’s bathroom. Why should the other women be uncomfortable so that you can be more comfortable?”

Donna, are you suggesting the mother of a special needs teenage boy who needs assistance in the restroom should take him into the men’s room? It seems if we are truly talking comfort of others, the women’s room would be the more rational, logical choice. The men’s room would have open urinals whereas the woman’s room have stalls that lock. I would assume the men in the men’s room would be far more uncomfortable with a woman taking her special needs son in there. (And asking a man to assist the teenager would be very awkward for both parties involved.) Obviously if there is a choice to use a family restroom or a private one, MOST caregivers of special needs individuals would choose those in a heartbeat. But we mustn’t judge those that do need to use a woman’s/men’s only restroom sometimes with a special needs individual. We should show them compassion and not be upset that our own comfort levels are disturbed. Perhaps if we remember that most special needs individuals that don’t have the ability to use the restroom alone, probably have a fairly young mental age. So if we can think of them as a 2, 3, or 4 year old in a large body, maybe we can learn to be more understanding. Overall, though, I wouldn’t think this was a widespread problem. I have never personally experienced this issue and it’s kind of like the saying, “Unless you’ve walked in another man’s shoes….” I couldn’t imagine spending my days and nights caring for a special needs teenage boy, being out in public with him when suddenly he “has to go now”, knowing full well he did not have the mental and/or physical capability to go on his own, and then faced with the choice of going into the men’s room with him or taking him into the women’s room, knowing full well I was going to possibly be negatively judged and looked down upon no matter what my decision – that I had to make quick or be faced with a big mess to clean up. I would hope I would run across compassionate individuals that would be understanding.

Yes, Emily, I hope you didn’t think I was implying you were stupid. I was picturing our own Y pool and wondering what you meant.

I don’t really grasp your description, but that’s okay. It’s not necessary for me to understand the mechanics of the pool to get the point. 🙂

@ Gene Callahan: “You don’t get to pick your own social norms from a menu. The culture as a whole picks them.”

No, but I wish many of the commenters here would reflect a bit more on their own irrational bathroom/sexual hang-ups before judging other people’s.

Besides, culture can change for the better, as I’m sure you would agree that we shouldn’t blindly submit to the dominant culture of parental paranoia just because that’s what “the culture” picked for us parents.

@ Donna – And I would think women in private stalls behind closed doors would be more comfortable with a special needs teen boy in their restroom than men out in the open with a woman without special needs coming in to assist her special needs teenage son. Would you not agree?

@Rachel – I disagree. Rational or not, in general, women seem to be more modest than men about the bathroom. I know many men who roll their eyes about their female significant other’s refusal to use the bathroom in their presence. I know no women who do the same and many who complain about their male significant other just walking in and doing their business while they are in the bathroom.

And honestly, I think the comfort of the person who needs to use the restroom is the overriding concern. Which room do THEY want to go in? Men are going to be somewhat uncomfortable with a woman in the men’s room. Women are going to be somewhat uncomfortable with a teen male in the women’s bathroom. At least one person should be comfortable and it should be the person peeing. But none of this seems to take their feelings into account.

Bah. It seems simple to me. A person who cannot go potty on his/her own needs to be assisted by whoever is there to assist. If there is no “family bathroom,” you go into the bathroom suited to the gender of the person assisting. If necessary, you say “sorry, excuse us.” If at all possible, you plan for a same-sex assistant if a bathroom visit will be needed. The people in that bathroom should show some compassion and be considerate (and modest).

The issue is with people who *can* go potty on their own. People should not have to make accommodations endlessly for insubstantial reasons.

@Rachel–We all know that a special needs person who needs help in the bathroom may have a younger mental/emotional age than chronological/physical age, but that doesn’t mean that that person has equal development all over. Just because that person can’t negotiate a public bathroom alone, doesn’t mean that there’s no way he’s “developed” enough to have urges for/curiosity about the opposite sex. In fact, that’s the crux of the problem–mentally handicapped individuals with the mental capacity to be aroused (or simply curious), but without the maturity level to moderate those urges. So, if you throw the bathroom issue into the mix (like, if the person doesn’t have the manual dexterity to get his pants down and back up again), then he HAS to have an aide in the bathroom, and the only way around it is if that aide were also male. However, it’s not always possible to match up same-sex caregivers and clients, because “caregiving” professions seem to attract more women than men.

Anyway, I’m not trying to create a strawman argument here, but if uneven development can happen with able-bodied, neurotypical people (and, we all know someone who’s great at art, but horrible at math, or really good with their hands, but can barely read, etc.), it can happen with disabled people as well. Remember Skye? She was developed enough to realize that she was older, and to WANT to be like the rest of us, but not developed enough to realize that being hyper and thrashing around in her bed wasn’t the way to go if she wanted to be included.

Amazing. I feel so sorry for those over-protected boys. How humiliating it must be!

One of my proudest moments as a father came a few months ago when I was taking my two-year-old girl to the restroom in a crowded restaurant. She sprinted ahead and disappeared into the women’s restroom. I waited a few minutes, and out she flew, drying her hands on her shirt. A woman came out behind her and said she had snaked her way to an open stall, peed, and washed her hands, all on her own. Score one for self-reliance!

Let Her Eat Dirt
http://www.lethereatdirt.com
One dad’s take on raising tough, adventurous girls

Wow, how sensitive can people get.

Let’s get something out in the open. As a society we have a responsiblity to help and accomodate those with special needs.

As an idividual I do not have to kiss their caregiver’s butt, or sacrifice my rights.

If a women wants to come into the men’s with her child, or a father wants to bring in his daughter go for it. I really do not object with them being there.

I do object with the lack of respect that alot of these caregivers show. They will walk in like they own the place. For some reason they feel it is beneath them to announce they are coming in. Those are the ones I have a problem with.
It all goes back to this sense of entitlement that so many people have. And it is wrong.

@pentamom: “Are you under the impression that keeping bodily functions private between the sexes is some recent artifact of “parental paranoia,” not the normal state of the majority cultures over the entire earth for thousands of years?”

No, segregated public restrooms are not culturally universal, and they’re not that old. This idea that women should keep their shameful “bodily functions” private from men and vice-versa is pure sexism.

And while I understand that many people have been conditioned to feel shame and discomfort about their bodies, I’m optimistic that over time we’ll move beyond that, even if it takes time.

Rachel–I see your point now; the “oversized toddler” designation for mentally handicapped people in the opposite-gendered public bathroom isn’t meant to be accurate; it’s more to make the other people (of the gender said bathroom is for) feel slightly more “okay” about the situation. Fair point. However, I still think that my argument about uneven development holds water (no pun intended), not just for the public bathroom/locker room debate, but for other aspects of life as well–schools, camps, after-school groups, families, neighbourhoods, and even mentally handicapped adults in workplaces–because it can cause a lot of problems when it’s not appropriately handled, and on the flip side, it can even be interpreted negatively when the person in question has no evil intentions. There was Skye at summer camp, who had the co-ordination and strength to kick me from her bed next to mine, but wasn’t mature enough to understand that kicking wasn’t okay, but on the other hand, there was the 40-year-old mentally handicapped man who got kicked out of free swim at the YMCA, for DIVING FOR RINGS. Parents complained that he was diving down to look up their kids’ swimsuits, so the YMCA responded by removing him from free swim, where diving for rings was a theoretically permissible activity (but was apparently only socially acceptable for children), and told him he could dive for rings during the adult/teen length swim, which was for swimming lengths. So, he was punished for appropriate behaviour that got misinterpreted, AND the proposed “solution” created an obstruction in the pool lanes during length swim. Talk about a lose-lose situation. This is why I don’t think “uneven development” should be brushed off as unimportant.

@Emily: “How is that sexist, if it applies equally to both genders?”

It’s a sexist attitude because it uses sex as the sole determining factor in who can share a public restroom. If privacy of bodily function were the highest priority, then why discriminate between men and women who invade that privacy?

That both men and women want to keep their “bodily functions” segregated does not make it less sexist, and I suppose it must originate in Victorian notions of modesty and the desire for men to deny that women actually *have* bodily functions.

@Charles–If using sex as the “sole determining factor” in segregating public facilities in situations where some measure of privacy is needed, how do you suggest society handles it? I mean, short of making an individual facility for each person, in every public place, which is clearly impossible, I really don’t see any other way around it.

@Pentamom–I agree with you. I don’t think that wanting a modicum of privacy for things like sleeping, changing clothes, bodily functions, and certain hygiene tasks that require me to be “exposed” (for example, showering), makes me unreasonable; it makes me normal. So, you’re right–if 90% of our culutre wants privacy for these things, then our culture should be designed to accommodate that 90% of its population.

I’ve been on a “Gilmore Girls” binge as of late and recently watched an episode (maybe aired six/seven years ago?) in which one of the jokes of the episode was a mother taking her six-year-old into the women’s bathroom at a football game. At the time this show ran, apparently that was something to poke fun at.

How times are changing!

@pentamom: “…it would be really upsetting to a lot of people if you just did things the way you want.”

Not sure where I suggested barging into ladies’ rooms as the way to reduce body-shaming and sexism in our culture. The culture will change slowly, even if it takes generations. So don’t worry, we’ll all be dead by the time men and women are comfortable using the same toilet.

“…there is nothing that actually requires privacy, so because he thinks that, YOU just shouldn’t care, because obviously, he’s right.”

At the risk of repeating myself, if it were just about requiring privacy, then why does it matter whether it’s privacy from men or women? If you needed privacy that badly, you wouldn’t be able to use a single-sex bathroom either. It’s a sexist hang-up that our *culture* needs to get over, though not necessarily you personally.

But back to my original point, it sure would be nice if people at least admitted they carry around their own bathroom baggage before criticizing other parents’ hang-ups.

This isn’t a complete solution, but after reading through all the anecdotes from parents of children who are pottty-trained, but still too small to comfortably reach bathroom fixtures designed for adults, I’m thinking, how easy would it be for public places like shopping malls, recreation centres, etc., to simply put a few inexpensive step stools in the bathrooms? A lot of these kids are fine in their bathrooms at home, because they can use a step stool there to reach the sink to wash hands, brush teeth, etc., but need assistance in public, because of the height issue, so they’d probably be accustomed to doing the same in a public bathroom, if a step stool was provided.

@Amanda Matthews–Fair enough, but I’ve actually seen step stools in a few places, now that I think about it. I think there might even be one in the first-floor women’s bathroom at the YMCA here. I guess they figure that, if a step stool is dangerous, then they’d have to also get rid of all the treadmills (actually saw an old woman fly off the end of one once), and free weights (dangerous if used improperly, or dropped), the swimming pool (drowning), and just about everything else there that involves moving one’s body in any way, shape, or form. So, when you look at it that way, a step stool really doesn’t seem like a huge deal.

Amanda — we’re going against accepted limits, and I certainly have no problem with that, especially when it’s done on principle, and because to not do so would actually harm someone.

But my Free-Ranging doesn’t impinge on anyone else. It doesn’t take the attitude “I’m going to Free-Range, and I absolutely don’t care if I upset or distress you in doing it.” That’s because there’s no reason any other person should (or should be expected to) be upset or distressed by how I raise my kids, provided I’m not teaching them to be anti-social. I mean, at least insofar as that distress or upset isn’t volunteered for, by being a busybody.

Using the wrong bathroom is deeply personally offensive to the feelings of people who are directly affected by it. Free-Ranging is rather different from that.

I don’t believe that transsexuals/transgendered individuals are inherently bad (in fact, I’ve known a few), but in situations like the locker room at the YMCA, I think it’s best for people who identify as something other than their biological sex, to either change at home, use the family changeroom, or come up with some plan that won’t make things uncomfortable for the majority. It may not be quite fair, but it seems like the only logical options in that scenario would be:

A) Don’t participate.

B) Pick the changeroom according to “identified gender,” and make people uncomfortable.

C) Pick the changeroom according to “biological sex,” and FEEL uncomfortable.

D) Do some brainstorming, or talk to someone there, and figure out a work-around.

Here in Europe I feel it’s quite the opposite: I remember people rolling their eyes at me for taking my baby with me into public bathrooms. Well, I carried her in a sling, and it would have been very inconvenient to take her out, hand her to someone, untie the sling and do the whole tying process again later. Of course whenever she was in a pram, I asked a stranger to look after her for a few moments. That’s what most people do!

Here’s an alternative perspective….my 10 year old son, who looks and usually acts pretty “normal” has autism. He’s very high functioning, independent and has a lot of freedom but he also has very high levels of anxiety and sensory issues. One of his biggest issues is unknown toilets. We’ve been working on this issue for years and I can successfully get him to use a public restroom now, which was impossible in the past. However, his anxiety is high enough that he won’t go in one alone. Not because of strangers or “bad people” but because of the fear of random toilets being flushed. The only way I can get him to use the bathroom outside our home or school is to bring him with me into the women’s bathroom. I get tons of crap for it. And if there’s a family bathroom we go in there. But usually there isn’t. I’ve had all sorts of nasty comments made about bringing him in but quite frankly I’m at a loss of what to do instead. I also don’t feel that my son needs to share his autism with the world at all times. He’s aware he has it and is proud of his neurodiversity but usually if someone is being rude in the first place they aren’t going to be any more understanding of what autism can look like (i.e. my normal looking totally verbal kid doesn’t fit what they expect autism to look like) and accept his need to use the women’s bathroom. I wish wish wish my son would go on his own and we’re working on it but…at the same time it would be nice if people wouldn’t always assume it’s a parenting issue.

jc,

I am not trying to be rude, but I need to ask. Why is it such a hardship to just give a shout out, as a heads up to the other people in the restroom? And then maybe a quick “thanks” when you are done?

I do not have a problem with the whole caregiver thing, as long as some respect and courteousy is shown, for the people using the room.

Do any of you know the statistics on what can actually occur in a public bathroom when your child goes in alone? I don’t. Maybe I’ve just read the horror stories of 6,7,8 year old boys going into a mens room and either being raped or murdered. Personally, I’d rather err on the side of caution. Maybe you should stop judging what other parents do and worry about your own.

I’m going to agree with those who said kindergarten but I think it depends more on height (can s/he reach the sink, etc) and ability to manage on their own than age.

It’s not that there is an actual danger from an older boy in the woman’s room. (We really do need a sarcacism font if anyone thought “maybe the teen will molest someone was genuine) It’s that in the United States men and women have seperate restrooms, I realize some other countries don’t. It is not appropriate to be in the “wrong” restroom and if 5 or 6 years isn’t the cut off, puberty certainly is. I really think it goes back to “when in Rome do as the Romans do” It’s inappropriate because our culture says so.

@JC–I’m not an expert in working with kids on the autism spectrum, but if your son is competent in other areas, as you say, and doesn’t have problems with language, and understanding cause and effect, etc., would it be possible to tell him, “Going to [Fun Location] is contingent on using the bathrooms there independently?” Would that work, or would it be too mean?

I have read some of the responses and I just don’t get it. Why does it matter if he goes into the restroom with his mom or not? My kids like to go in to their own restrooms (they are 9 and 5) without me but I certainly wouldn’t flinch at a mother or father helping their child use a restroom. Aren’t there stall doors? Why would someone be bothered?

My son is 4. He is not yet capable of going to a public bathroom by himself. I am DYING for the day that he is. For now we go to the ladies room together, but I’m already trying to train him to do it on his own so I can let him go unaccompanied! I tell you in a year or so he will be more than ready to head to a mens’ room on his own…

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