Two Stories You Won’t Hear on the News

Sounds like the kind of thing that happened all the time when I was a little kid (way back in the fifties).

In all fairness, there are definitely some ‘neighborhoods’ in Pittsburgh where I would question a parent about their roaming 2-year-old – not necessarily because of the ‘crazies’ that might snatch them up, but more because of the traffic! Neighborhoods in urban Pittsburgh are not nice little cul-de-sacs, nor do they resemble quiet towns of 300, and they have many more cars speeding by without regard for little ones who may wander out.

What a lovely post! It’s nice to hear a bit of good news.

I love it. It’s the kind of stunt I keep waiting for my 2 year old to manage, as she’s been one of those kids who wanders off without looking back ever since she learned to walk. Any time she gets out front I know I have to keep an eye on her because she has no fear and there are a few drivers who don’t understand what a reasonable speed is on our roads.

Must echo the original writer’s sentiments: There ARE areas – even those that are nowhere near rural – where people still seem to have some semblance of perspective and come by free-range parenting naturally.

My neighborhood is one of them.

I’m not a parent myself, but I regularly see the neighborhood kids out riding their bikes and scooters and having a grand ole’ time, free of constant supervision…and I LOVE it. These kids are getting the childhood they deserve – one marked by curiosity, exploration, creativity, conflict management and yes, even failure.

Having read Free Range Kids for a while now, and observed parenting trends in my own neighborhood and others, I have a theory: The hyper-vigilance often reported here is class-based and largely limited to ex-urban neighborhoods populated by educated, upwardly mobile, primarily white families.

My neighborhood on the other hand, is a close-in suburb of a major city, populated primarily by elderly retirees (60%) and families with young children (40%) who are considered “working class” at best, and “low-income” at worst. There are a lot of minorities – primarily Hispanic – but it’s definitely still a “white” neighborhood.

Perhaps these parents don’t have the luxury of worrying about their children incessantly and protecting them from any and every adversity, every second of every day. Perhaps both parents must work in order to make ends meet and have made reluctant sacrifices.

Or perhaps they’re just really, incredibly wise and realize that THERE’S NOT MUCH TO WORRY ABOUT.

I’ve called the police on my own kids once when they disappeared. Similar situation – I thought they were outside with their dad, he thought they were inside with me and drove off. They were hiding from me because they didn’t want a bath and did. not. come. when. I. called.

I drove around the block a couple of times, searched the house three times then was too panicked to be useful so I called 911. They appeared from somewhere, I still know not where.

My point is, this kind of lapse can happen to anyone, now and again. And for some people that is an absolute tragedy if something terrible happens. It is no less a tragedy if the lack of supervision is habitual but it is less random.

Thank you for this beautiful slice of sanity. But, I gotta tell you, as a middle aged guy in North America, especially as a gay middle aged guy, I am terrified of strange children.
The last time I though it might be cool to have a working lunch outdoors in a park, I was asked to leave.
Rudely. By a group of really scary moms. Ironically, I was employed by a provincial youth advocacy ngo at the time and was actually drafting a grant proposal for a youth safety initiative when the incident happened.
Now, if I were to encounter a young child in distress, I would absolutely call the police and keep them on the line. For my sake. The possible consequences of doing anything else are just too horrific.

Oh Storm, I am sorry you had to experience that. That’s exactly what a lot of us here are trying to change–the pervasive attitude that strangers are dangerous and especially if they’re middle aged men in a park. It sucks when it happens to guys like you, and it sucks when it happens to men like my husband who takes out daughter out for an hour of Daddy Daughter time to let mommy have some much needed me time. Hopefully the movement will continue to spread and we wont have to endure situations like that too often!

Jen, thanks for sharing your stories with us. It’s so wonderful to hear a positive note!

there was just a story like that on the new a couple of days ago headline “Toddler Found Alone On Road, Babysitter Arrested” http://www.wftv.com/news/27902441/detail.html

We had an incident when one of my sons was 2 1/2. I was out. My husband was downstairs and our son was taking a nap upstairs in his room. My son woke up. He walked down the stairs and right out the front door. He then attempted to come back in , but couldn’t reach the door handle. So he sat on the porch. I woman jogging past saw him and asked if this was his house. He said yes so she rung the doorbell. My husband answered the door and realized what had happened. He thanked her and didn’t think much about it. About fifteen minutes later the doorbell rung again and it was the police. It turns out the woman called the police before she rang the doorbell. The police came in to check that our son was ok. This totally freaked him out and he started crying. He didn’t walk out the front door again for a long time LOL.

My mum tells a story about how when she was about 3 (in a small village in the UK, late 1940’s) she told her mother she was going to the shop. “Have a nice time”, said her mother, assuming she was playing a game. But my mum actually walked out of the door and did indeed walk to the local shop (not very far away). She asked, I think, for a cabbage, and the shopkeeper asked if her mother knew where she was and suggested she’d better go home.

I don’t know what my grandmother thought – she was a fairly sanguine woman and to be honest I’m not sure if she even noticed my mum was missing…

People are too schizophrenic these days when it comes to kids wandering. I’ve had relatives freak out over our 8 year-old nephew walking maybe 150 yards in a very family-friendly park from one group of adults to the other.

It seems where I live people haven’t let fear rule them much either. It’s not all that unusual for kids to be out bike-riding amongst themselves away from home–at least a couple of blocks or so–and they’re only age 8-9 or so. I have observed a child or two playing at the playground with the parents rather far off or even out of sight, as if it’s no big deal. I’m quite glad to see this.

As for this 2-year old–stuff happens, and I definitely take exception to Marguerite suggesting that the subject of the article should’ve done more to prevent this from happening and that it was otherwise neglect. Bullfeathers. As I read the article, the yard is fenced-in and the 2 year-old managed to open the gate. Sounds to me like the adults did a very reasonable job of trying to gate the child in, and didn’t anticipate him/her jiggling open the gate. Good grief, we can’t anticipate everything.

As the article states, rightly, nobody called the police or social services, and anyone that would do so subsequently due to judging the parents as unfit–frankly, they’re every bit as evil as criminals like rapists and thieves, and ought to be thrown in jail for 30 years for parental harassment.

LRH

My youngest brother was a master escape artist and nudist. At 2, he would strip off all his clothes and sneak out of the house.

Fortunately, people in the neighborhood knew that when they encountered a naked toddler, he belonged to us.

Larry — what on earth does “people are too schizophrenic” mean? You realize schizophrenia is a medical diagnosis, yes? It’s not synonymous with paranoia.

These stories tell me it’s good to know our neighbors, at least to say hi to. Though I’d be fairly “freaked out” if my toddler went up the street. Too many cars and at least one household with toxic gardening chemicals on the front porch! Yep, that’d be a “real” danger.

I love the story with the older gentleman. Our kids need to experience life. I delivered newspapers at age 13 and it would be deemed “unsafe” today, but it was a huge growing experience and made me who I am today.

I’ve got a Toddler Wandering Off : Old Skool Version, to share. Now, it has to be said that this story comes from my older brother, who was notorious for telling his little sisters whoppers, but it SO could have happened.

As a toddler I wandered off into the neighborhood. A couple driving by noticed me, stopped, and asked me if I was lost, to which I replied I was. They asked me if I know what my house looked like, and I said yes. So they took me in their car and drove me around the neighborhood until I saw my house. I apparently said “That’s it! That’s the one!” So they stopped and let me out.

This was always told (and felt by me) with a combination of gloating/embarrassment – haha you got lost, and pride: You knew what you were about and had the assuredness to shout out when you recognized your house. The idea that the couple could have been creeps never figured even into the story. And of course, the concept that the couple would have called the police on my parents – huh?

You know, people are telling the truth when they say “but the world’s different now”. We have less faith in people than we used to.

intersting timing. Just today I was having a carseat inspection & there was a park right there. My son insited on playing in the sandbox & wouldn’t wait till I was done. I decided since I could see & hear him & there was a couple of mom’s over there with little ones I would let him. I glanced over every few minutes & watched him play with the other kids. Becasue of the world we live in now sometimes my first instint is to worry & hover, then my comon sense sets in & I force myself to back off. Also my son likes to play in the front yard & I really don’t want to stand out there the whole time. We live on a very quiet culdesac with nice quiet neighbors, almost no cars so I leave the front door open so I can hear him & periodically I call out to him to see what he’s doing. It worries my hubby, but I try not to go crazy

Hail to Pitt! My hometown is indeed not too crazy most times. My experience has been that some new Mcmansion communities see the paranoid attitude much more than some that are older. This could be for a number of reasons from demographic mix to family background.

Larry: it is not wrong or evil to call the police if you find a wandering small child and not know who he belongs to or suspect the police might need to get involved. Sometimes the police do need to get involved like if the parents were strung out on crack and the kid got out. In that case you would be a monster if you did not call the police. My husband and I found a very small child probably under 2 wandering a parking lot near a busy street. No one else in sight. We were very upset and did not know what to do. We did not have a cell phone. If we did, I probably would have called the cops because it was several minutes before finally his mother ran out of a store and grabbed him. Did not say a word to us the nice couple who stood there with her child to make sure no one kidnapped him or ran him over or making sure he did not run further off. Honestly, I think that women needed the cops called on her. How can you not notice your child is missing for that long? It was a small store so she should have noticed he left the store. Was the mom in the back room getting it on with the clerk? Honestly the situation was very weird and had us generally spooked.

But I guess we are just terrible people for being concerned for this child. Also some people are under oath to report stuff like this. At one time I was. I was a substitute teacher and we are bound by law to report any suspected cases of abuse or neglect. If we don’t I could end up in jail. I am not going to jail for someone else. NO WAY! So some people might be more likely to report stuff to protect their own asses and that does not make them bad people. Change the law if you want, but I am going to follow it so I don’t end up in jail.

I used to tether my youngest to my wrist for a short period with one of those lead things. All that gave me was a false sense of security.

Few things are more shocking than standing in a shop and then suddenly noticing that there is a lead hanging from from your wrist with no toddler attached to other end. Houdini had extricated himself in seconds flat from a very securely tied lead while I had been looking inside a freezer and was now nowhere to be seen.

That was a shocker I can tell you, although I can laugh about it now.

Suzanne: I totally get that. Mine are somewhat dense at times about stuff and honestly I am happy that they are because it makes my life easier LOL. They did not learn to climb out of cribs till 2 and a half. They don’t try to get out of the house on their own. They just now learned how to take their clothes off. They just now learned to push stuff over to climb up stuff. So I guess I was lucky that way.

There still are measures you can take against escapist kids. Really it should only happen once and then you take measures to prevent it from happening again. There are alarms you can install that go off when the door is open so you know when your child goes out. You can install latches up high so that only an adult could reach them to unlock the door. There are measures you can take that should prevent it from being an ongoing problem and you can take your eyes off your child without worrying about them getting out.

The story the post was written about is good because once they realized the 2 year old could get out they fixed the latch by putting it on the outside so it won’t happen again. Stuff like that is good in making their escape a one time event hopefully. 🙂

I applaud this mother on her take of the situation. I am also a Pittsburgher and I do not believe in ‘rush to judgment’ mentality. My children are grown, and I agree with Lenore as to supporting your child to be ‘Free Range’. Reading “Thankfully, the local city has not succumbed to the temptation to bar adults from enjoying the same areas as children, because both my daughter and the gentleman had a wonderful time.” Thumbs up to parent’s everywhere not being AFRAID to rasie their children. Thumbs UP to “A Happy Pennsylvania Mom” …And always to Lenore!!!

I have video of my son climbing out of his crib at 12 mo. Just sayin’.

My story is about my third, who at the time was maybe not quite 3 (?). My husband was going to watch 2 neighbor kids while the other mom and I went to a meeting. The other kids came over, and in the midst of the chaos my daughter asked me to tie her shoes. Two minutes later, as we are accounting for everyone, we can’t find her.

We live in a city neighborhood in Wilmingon, DE. In hindsight, I remembered that we had talked about going to my brother-in-law’s house later on. He lived around the corner, up the block, and across one street. Well, apparently she decided she was ready to go, so she left, walked up the street, then stopped because she knew she wasn’t allowed to cross by herself.

A nice couple on a walk found her, asked her where she lived, and she brought them home. This happened in a flash — we had just started to look outside after not finding her inside. The couple was amazed that she was so cool and calm and knew right where she lived.

She’s now 10 and rides the public bus to school 6 miles away, sometimes by herself. I tell people all the time that she would run our household if we let her. She is an old soul and very independent. I get all kinds of amazed comments about what an awesome kid she is. I would trust her more than many 20-somethings I know!

Thank you, Uly! It is no more appropriate to label what you perceive as crazy behavior “schizophrenic” than it is to call people “retarded.”

Uly It may be technically true–I stress may–that schizophrenia is not a synonym for “behavior that makes no sense to me,” but I think it makes a good one, and use it as such. That’s all, there’s no need to dissect it further than that, but feel free to.

Dolly For you, I had to refill my drink & food and settle in to get in the right frame of mind to type my response (although I suspect that, when I’m done, I will make some typos anyway).

I vehemently disagree and re-state again that I do think it IS evil for someone to call social services or the police at every whim. That the law would entice people to think “cover my own ass” over leaving non-negligent parents the hell alone is evil by all means, but I still hold people accountable for being of the “itchy twitchy finger” mentality and reporting every petty thing. It goes to ridiculous extremes, and when the law is disrespecting parental sovereignty that is NOT in the realm of abuse, I will say I fully endorse breaking it by looking the other way and minding your own damn business. Where I come from, you basically obey the law rather than breaking it just because you don’t like it–HOWEVER, if the law is in the realm of being evil and disrespecting what is pure and good, that’s different, and laws that encourage meddling on this level are evil because they create an environment where one tends to parent with a “cover your ass” mentality in a way that goes against their own instincts because they’re scared of the meddling of outsiders who don’t know anything except how fast to pick up a phone and butt their nose in where it doesn’t belong, on account of a disagreement in parenting style NOT on account of abuse or neglect.

And yes, I think that would apply in the case you were talking about, unless you specifically SAW that the woman was doing something nefarious like “getting it on with the clerk” or smoking a joint, your projections in your head don’t give you the moral right to butt your nose in her business. She probably came & got her child and flew off in a hurry on account of fear of the real risk of you calling if she gave you the chance. That you weren’t properly thanked–that’s because of this snitching atmosphere you advocate.

People who do this–it makes me wish we still had firing squads, I’d fully endorse that response to it. Yes, I said it and I meant it–at some point, you go from being a concerned citizen, which is fine if you all but KNOW that drugs or molestation or flat-out negligence (not accidental slip-ups) are involved, but beyond that–it makes you a judgmental, busy-bodying bitch deserving of the appropriate response.

Obviously if you have someone who’s a crack addict, and I mean to where you KNOW that you KNOW that they are, or the night-shift example and her child wandering the child with a blowtorch–yes, report it, and if someone did have it on good authority that someone was doing that sort of thing and they looked the other way under the premise of “minding my own business,” yes–I support charges of “failure to report child abuse.” Let it not be said that I endorse an environment where a parent can beat their child within an inch of its life, or lock it in a cage, or molest it–and nothing is done. No, no, no. That is “mind your own business” taking to a ridiculous extreme and that is also evil.

But too often, it goes beyond that. It goes to the extreme of people calling social services on my wife simply for “holding her child like a sack of potatoes,” whatever the fuck that means. They didn’t know a fucking thing about her–like how, for instance, she’s worked in a daycare and is highly recommended in that realm, or how she’s volunteered watching kids for her church before and, again, came highly recommended. Instead, some bitch with an itchy twitchy sees something they don’t understand and picks up a phone that, frankly, I wished had one of those bad batteries and would blow up in her hands (or his, makes no difference to me).

It goes to ridiculous extremes when my family picks up their grand-children from their daughter, the children had been playing in the mud and hadn’t been cleaned up, she receives them rather suddenly in that state, and some bitch at their church almost (but ultimately didn’t) report them to social services. Now, these grandparents are neurotic (if that isn’t the textbook definition of neurotic, I don’t care, sue me damn-it) about not ever letting their grand-children play in the mud again ever, not because they don’t want dirty clothes per se (although that’s understandable depending on the situation), but because they’re scared someone will see it and wrongly mis-judge it “neglect.”

You read numerous posts here from people who want to leave their child in the car for a minute while they pay for gas or let their kids play outside unsupervised at an appropriate age, and the law ALLOWS it, but they STILL fear it because of nosy busy-bodies who are all too eager to butt their nose and call social services and unload an avalanche of a mess that you’d never imagine. That is the atmosphere this has created, and yes those who do what they do & help make it that are absolutely evil.

This is the very sort of “chilling effect” and busy-bodying meddling laws like this encourage, and it sounds like you are all too eager to utilize it as a tool to butt your nose in other people’s business where it isn’t needed nor warranted. I do consider this, yes, downright evil, and think people who do this sort of thing are nothing less than evil, They’re not “concerned citizens,” they’re nosy busy-bodies who need to buzz off or get knocked off, frankly. After the tornadoes hit Alabama recently, I was genuinely sorry about it–and yet at the same time I said, “why couldn’t that tornado specifically target the homes of busy-bodies and take them out only?”

Some say it’s sick to wish such a thing on a person and I can understand that sentiment, seriously, but it’s about realizing what is evil and hoping for some random act that makes it right in the end, justice for parents who just want to be left the hell alone when they’re not doing anything wrong.

If you have just cause to really suspect someone might be on crack or letting their 2 year old wander the streets ON PURPOSE while they’re in a casino for hours on end, that sort of thing–by all means, I advocate reporting in extreme cases, and I even advocate the REQUIREMENT for it, but beyond that–it’s harassment, and you are a harasser for doing it, and deserve the response a harasser would receive.

LRH

How many parents have stories about being scared to death that their child was abducted, only to learn that the kid is safe inside sleeping under the bed, or in a closet, or at a neighbor’s house?

And I’ll bet police could tell you they get calls from frantic parents everyday, and then discover the child was never really gone, or was easily found. Only these stories, and thousands like them, are never told by the media.

Larry, I’m going to join in with the policing of your metaphorical use of “schizophrenia” as well. The accepted dictionary metaphorical use is:

“A mentality or approach characterized by inconsistent or contradictory elements”

Obviously this has nothing to do with the clinical definition of schizophrenia and I understand the argument that this usage leads to stigma and misunderstanding of the disease. However, I don’t know if this is actually true or just something that Susan Sontag made up.

My father died of cancer, but I wouldn’t get upset if someone said “helicopterism is a cancer spreading through society”, for example.

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I think a lot of the concern over a toddler wandering on the streets depends on where you live and where this toddler is wandering. I live in Phoenix and in my neighborhood, we are not front yard people. Why? Because no one has a front yard – they are cacti and rocks and not at all inviting to play. Grass is a temperamental and wasteful plant in these parts and if someone has to choose front or back yard to grass over – they choose back yard because its bigger. Its also very hot here, and people don’t tend to walk the neighborhood during daylight hours – dogs are let out back and walked when the sun goes down and the temp drops to double digits and that’s when families stroll to the park (which is the only sizable chunk of grass in a 5 mile radius). At high noon on a sunny day from May – September, my street looks like a ghost town with only cars speeding through at 45 MPH.

If I saw a toddler wandering in the streets, and that kid couldn’t tell me where they lived, you’d better believe I’d call the cops. If I got there and the parents appeared to be drugged up, drunk or generally neglectful (which is fairly common in my hood) you’d better believe I’d call the cops then too, and thank God the child had been wandering in the front yard and not escaped out the back and found at the bottom of a pool.

Larry, I was trying to defend you (in a round about way). I agree with you that it’s legit to use schizophrenia as a metaphor (even though you had used it in a bit of an unorthodox manner). The word schizophrenia does not only refer to the disease.

Myriam Oh okay, my apologies.

LRH

I am like Larry with I am not a great cook and I almost stab myself or cut myself or burn myself daily and the last thing I need are kids in my way. It would not end well. We also did not want to have to childproof entire kitchen like putting cleaners up and sharp things up etc so we just keep them out of there unless we are in there. One son can get that gate open know if he wants but he is old enough know to stay mostly out of trouble. When they were little I could not have my eyes on them 24/7 so I would rather childproof and be able to potty in peace knowing they are not into something, than have to always be following them around.

Haha Now they go get their own snacks too, without my permission for giggles. LOL

Dolly, how about you actually take the time to try to help the child get back to the parents and THEN if you believe there is an issue – once you actually have FACTS to support your belief – with neglect you call CPS? Obviously, there are cases that are clear from looking at the child that there is a problem – toddler with a blow torch – but many you could actually try to help the kid get home and see if the parents are crackheads before you accuse them of being crackheads.

Donna: Well since that was probably a once in a lifetime thing I don’t think I have to worry about it again. You don’t find a baby/toddler wandering a parking lot everyday. The store the mother was in was literally so small you could walk the whole store in about 20 seconds and we stood out there at least 5 minutes before she came out. So it is not like she could really lost him and been looking for him the whole time. Not only would you notice the door of the shop opening you would be able to see the whole store if inside. So she very well might have been in the back doing the clerk. It was very very weird.

It was a fish store with blacked out windows so we couldn’t see anyone inside. We didn’t see anyone period so we just stood there with the child. We were afraid to move with the kid lest we get accused of trying to kidnap said kid. I just don’t see how she would not notice a child that young missing for that long in such a small store and not even notice the door opening????? It was weird.

Then to not even thank us, apologize to us, or make any explanation to us, just grab the kid and run back into the store-again very peculiar behavior. It is not my job to watch your kid or find you if you lose your kid. It is your job not to lose your kid in the first place. I will stay to protect the child but I really don’t owe their parent a darn thing.

I didn’t involve the authorities but I am still not sure I made the right decision. My radar was going off that something was not right and something bad was going on and my radar is usually right.

Larry seems to have a hard time realizing the BIG difference between a baby/toddler wandering a parking lot alone and a kid being muddy. BIG difference. One is negligent and dangerous, one is harmless. And big shock Larry didn’t apologize to me for offending me with his insensitive tornado comments. Why am I not surprised?

On a tangential topic. What is wrong with cactus? My sister in law is moving back to the desert with her two (4 and 6) and my mother in law has rejected many a house because it has cactus. I finally asked her if the kids were so stupid you couldn’t point out the prickly ones to them and tell them to stay away from them.

The tot and I were playing with the kids across the street one evening and ended up near some cholla (chain fruit variety). The older kids were barefoot and the 6 year old ended up stepping on some. He might have said, “Ouch.” but otherwise calmly asked his sister for assistance back to an area that had better lighting where he sat down to ascertain the damage (and negotiate the removal without becoming a human pretzel like the person in the story I had just told them). On the way to the the light, the tot somehow got some cholla in his ankle, and without saying a word sat down too. After observing that the 6 year old was managing with the help of his sister, I glanced at the tot and saw that he was examining his own barbs without saying a word about it! I doubt he would have been so calm if the 6 year old had been hollering about the barbs in his foot.

Also, why does the lack of a front yard prevent people from hanging out in front of their houses? We have a porch, two steps, a sidewalk and a dirt parking strip and spend some part of each day out there. Chalk, sticks, trains, trucks, rocks, tricycle. My rules are quiet voices before 8 in the morning, don’t leave things where a pedestrian could trip on them (that means move yourself out of the way if you see someone coming), and if something goes into the street I’ll get it for you. If he doesn’t want to involve me in his play, I put a chair in the shade off to the side and read a book.

I don’t know when I’ll feel comfortable with the tot playing out front by himself. We will cross that threshold when he demonstrates that he is capable of doing so.

I suspect, as someone else said, it is a class/money thing. Those that have money, or aspire to a lifestyle based on money require very strange things on behalf of their offspring.

P.S. While I don’t disagree with the class/money issue, in Phoenix, its often those who can afford high water bills or irrigation who have the front yards and trees. My neighborhood is mid-income and 40 years old. It has a lovely park right in the middle of it, which is a gathering spot, but that doesn’t see much action until the sun goes down, which is often too late for the little ones to come out and play.

A few weeks ago, my 11 year old daughter came in the house and said “there is a little girl in a diaper walking up the road.” We live on a private road, that is dirt to boot. I didn’t quite recognize the girl but figured she came from one of two houses. She would not come with me when I tried to walk her home, and I didn’t want to pick her up and have her cry (not because I was scared someone would accuse me, but because I figured she would cooperate more if she wasn’t crying. Anyhow, she had a plan of where she wanted to go, so I had my daughter run over to the most likely house and ask the mom to come. At this point, we were in front of another neighbor’s house, a sheriff deputy.

Sure enough, she belonged to them. The rest of the 5 members of the family had been working in the garden and the toddler was taking a nap. Sister had just checked on her, and when she woke up, she went out the front door, not the back.

Our biggest problem with the whole thing was not having phone numbers on hand for our neighbors.

Sera I appreciate your detailed response and respectful tone about the matter, but I stand by my position that the people taking offense are being overly sensitive. The list of what you can’t supposedly say because of this group & that group etc is getting ridiculous, although “trigger” I can understand. (And you won’t hear me calling Jews “crazy kikes” or Mexicans “spicks” etc.)

It never ends. I recall in the mid 90s Shaq made a Taco Bell commercial showing him on fire depicting how hot the tacos are. Burn victims complained that it was disrespectful to them and their pain. I was like–oh c’mon! Heck I was a burn victim myself a few years prior to that, I didn’t lose my head & act all retarded about it.

Lighten up, enough already.

LRH
Android 2.2

Jen “I would rather “world-proof” my baby than try to “baby-proof” the world.” That is most excellent, for what it’s worth I like that very much.

LRH

I should point out that back in the sixties, when I had a series of unfortunate events (broken arm, broken collarbone, other healed broken collarbone showed up on xray of the first one, concussion from an iceball, stitches in my chin…I might have missed a few) my mother WAS questioned by the good folks in the emergency room.

I was not abused, just a little adventurous. My mother was happy to answer the questions, and that was that. Isn’t this how the system should work — that if doctors or nurses or teachers or caregivers see a string of injuries like that, that questions should be raised? Isn’t that how a community protects — not smothers — kids?

Of course I fully agree that something is wrong with a system where investigating triggers as much fear as it seems to in the US, judging by what is said in these posts, anyway.

sigh…my son was age 8 …don’t know what happened to get the glasses sun..but hey..its cute anyway!

Larry,
How is this for sensible…my son IS mentally challenged and I DO find offense to using the word “retarded” in reference to chips and salsa. Your lack of sensitivity to others is quite annoying. Just because you CAN say something doesn’t mean that you should “just to piss them off.” Actually, it’s malicious.

Martin I am sorry for your son’s deficiency and struggles in life associated with it. I am sorry for what you as a parent endure in terms of the extra work etc that goes with, along with the plain fact that it’s got to be heartbreaking to learn such a thing about a child of yours for whom you only want the best out of life. That is sad, and I do mean it.

If I knew you in real life, I would most certainly be compassionate towards your situation, and I can promise you I wouldn’t greet your son by going “hey, what’s up retard?” Where it regards respecting the person in speech to them, or speaking in regards to them personally per se, I agree.

I sure don’t tell my friends “that section of town is where all the gooks live.” Phrases like “Lenore Skenazy may be a Kike, but she’s alright anyway”–nope, not part of my vocabulary either, nor part of my attitude towards such persons in my heart either anyway. Not to be dirty or baudy (did I spell that correctly?), but the first woman I was ever intimate with was a Hispanic woman, and I was head over heels in love with her. I dated a Korean, a couple of African-Americans (one of whom was British & ate Indian food), and a couple of other Latinos before I was through. All of them were treated well by me, and not just because I wanted to “get to 2nd base” with them, but because that’s just how I was, and still am.

BUT, the thing is, I am one of the persons who thinks that this whole “don’t offend that group by saying this” etc has gotten a bit out of hand, and frankly I think it’s ridiculous. Examples are forthcoming, but I will also say this: it’s one thing to get upset if someone greets your son by saying “hey, what’s up retard?” I’d agree with you in principle if you ended up socking that person in the nose (I wouldn’t ENCOURAGE you to do it, but if you did, I’d say they got what was coming to them). However, when someone says “that’s a retarded question” instead of “that’s a stupid question’ and you make the decision to choose to get all up in arms about something as silly as that, that’s where I part company.

I am only 42 years old, but I remember well when people could just joke or talk in such ways, and they were not trying to be offensive or rude towards a group of people in a prejudiced way per se, and no one made a big deal of it. When a person says “that mexican place that doesn’t sell chips & salsa, that’s retarded” it was not meant to put down people like your son, it NEVER was, but people like you MADE it about that, and pressure people to say something else–when there is no need to, never was, and shouldn’t be such a need now. It’s not the same as saying “that building there is a home for retards”–by the way, my father worked at such a place, and I always admired him doing that sort of thing for over 25 years 8 hours every workday, and never poked fun at his “clients” if you will.

That’s the problem I have–it gets taken too far, and it’s as if there is NOTHING you can say that doesn’t run the risk of offending this group or the other LOOKING to be offended at EVERYTHING people say. The 90’s Taco Bell commercial with Shaq on fire from eating a hot taco is a good example I’ve mentioned–I mean c’mon, burn victims complaining that the commercial disrespected them & others who have been the victim of burns? That’s the kind of thing I am referring to.

It’s one thing to look at a person with a metal issue square in the face and say “hey what’s up retard,” which is HIGHLY offensive, or look at a a homosexual and say “where you headed off to now, faggot?” That’s directed straight at a person, to their face, denigrating them personally. But when someone says “that song is so gay” or “I’m tired of all the schizophrenic reactions of parents needing to know where their kids are every second,” to find offense in that sort of thing–I’m sorry, that’s just ridiculous. I’m tired of hearing about it, and I’m not going to go along with such ridiculous demands. Others in the public eye are so quick to go “I am sorry if my comments offended that group” in such silly circumstances, but I never would–not even if it lost me millions in endorsements. It’s ridiculous.

I love watching the old “Sanford And Son” episodes, especially one entitled “And Sister Makes Three.” At the end, when Fred Sanford threw someone out of his house, and this person had earlier given him a “colorful” looking jacket to him, he threw the jacket back to them yelling out, “hear–take this faggoty jacket with you.”

The person wasn’t gay, Fred wasn’t so much meaning to put down gays as a group, he was just describing what the jacket was like, and the thing is this–people laughed, NOT making fun of a group, they just laughed at the context & humor of that clip, and without calls coming in from GLAD or MADD or whoever expressing outrage–and that such calls happen now doesn’t mean people are “enlightened,” it means they’re oversensitive wimps, frankly. That clip is on YouTube, and comments such as “those were the days when we knew how to just laugh at stuff without making such an issue of everything, those PC people have ruined modern TV”–such comments DOMINATE the comments on that thread, and perfectly echo my sentiments.

So, anyone who was offended at my comments about schizophrenic etc–that is all on YOU for CHOOSING to take offense at something that was NEVER directed at you, at anyone you know, at people with a mental illness or struggles etc. No disrespect was meant, I have no feelings of hatred or denigration towards someone based on their race or mental challenges or physical challenges. It wasn’t meant at anything I said, and never will be–but I’m not going to stop saying it because YOU find it to be when it isn’t.

This isn’t me calling an African-American a “trigger” or an Italian a “spaghetti whore” or whatever. Lighten up, get over it, stop making something out of nothing, because it is nothing, and I’m not going to change.

LRH

1. Larry, bawdy.

2. Gosh, look Larry, you’ve effectively derailed the conversation.

You think “that’s so gay” isn’t offensive because it’s not directed towards a person? But isn’t it saying that being gay is a bad thing? (Why yes, yes it is!) You think “That’s retarded” isn’t offensive because it’s not directed towards a person? But that’s something ELSE saying that being retarded is a bad thing, and helping to stigmatize people with mental retardation. You think saying “That’s schizophrenic” does anything other than convey the impression that schizophrenics are something to be mocked? You’re wrong, Larry, you’re rude and you’re wrong.

And what you’re saying doesn’t even make sense in terms of common parlance. You’re the only person I’ve ever seen try to use the term in that way. It’s not as though you said “That’s so gay” and tried to justify it with “Well, everybody says that!” It’s more like if I said “That’s so Larry” and tried to use the same defense. It quite simply doesn’t make sense.

3. You’re right in a teeny way about people being more willing to speak about how offensive you are than they were in the past. However, this isn’t a bad thing.

Every culture has its own set of taboo words and subjects. In the Netherlands, for example, you can actually curse people out by calling them a cancer patient or saying they have AIDS. It’s like saying “A pox on your house!” but today. In the 1800s, in the US, the really “dirty” words were all religious – damn, hell, god. That’s why people said things like “Goldarnit!”, because they wanted to curse but didn’t want to. In more recent times, the curse words in the US were all scatological or sexual – damn wasn’t something you should say, but it’s a lot milder than “fuck” or “asshole” (a word which in Korea is about as bad, in translation, as “poopyhead”. Even the babies don’t say that because it’s so silly!)

Nowadays we’re moving to a new set of taboo subjects based around not insulting each other. We’ve been doing that for decades. Get with the ever-loving times and stop whining.

That’s right Larry it is always everyone else and never you that is wrong. You know, I detect that kinda being schizophrenic…

curiositycat, you reminded me of when I “lost” my child. She was 3. All the doors to the house were locked and I could not find her. I was sure she must have died somehow, stuck behind a couch or something.

I looked in every room, opened every closet, looked under every bed. I could not find her. I was frantically yelling her name. I was just about to run next door to get my neighbor to help me when I found her.

She was in the guest bedroom–a room I’d been in multiple times. She had taken the pillows out of the pillow cases and put one over her head and the other over her feet and lay at the top of the bed.

She was very pleased with herself for finding such a good hiding place for hide and seek. I then explained that you had to tell mom before you hid that you were playing hide and seek.

Took forever for my heart rate to go down.

But that is just it LARRY, you are not polite. It is not polite to wish infertility on someone out loud which you have done. It is not polite to wish a tornado to come kill someone out loud, which you did. If you think those things in your head, fine. But to actually say them and then stand by them. It makes me worry about your sanity.

I was in those tornados as were many of my friends and family. One did not even directly hit us and yet it was a terrifying experience. For the ones it did hit, it cannot even be described with words. One of my friends is a nurse and worked on a woman who woke up in a field with a 2 by 4 through her arm and her fiance missing after the tornado hit her. For you to wish that publically on anyone and then stand by it. Well its sick.

Heck you didn’t even wish it on pedophiles or murderers or robbers- you wished it on busybodies. Sure busybodies suck but I can think of so many worse things to be. So if the busybodies get blown away by tornados then what happens to the murderers? I am honestly curious.

Also just to add: I know A LOT of parents and never have any of them had CPS called on them. Yet you have had it called numerous times on you from the way you talk about it. So that honestly makes me wonder about your parenting. Sure CPS gets called unjustly on some people but multiple times by different people? I don’t know about that. I doubt that happens very often. So the only thing I can think is either you have a lot of enemies or your parenting might be honestly lacking.

I don’t worry about CPS being called on me ever. Even though I practice some free range stuff or at least will in the future. You know why? Because I know I am a good parent and I know everyone else knows it too. I literally have zero worry about it. Yet it seems to be something you stress a lot about. Why is that?

Dolly No there haven’t been a TON of calls to CPS on us, only a couple which basically went nowhere ultimately–but to me, that was a couple too many. There should NEVER be any calls EVER unless something serious has happened, a scratch or a ding here and there and occasional mud from having played in it are not legitimate calls to make.

As for busybodies vs murderers/rapists etc–I consider them all one & the same. Seriously–someone who is a busybody to the point of potentially breaking up a family, even if temporarily, I put them on the same level of unethical nature or whatever as I do a murderer or rapist.

And yes, if a murderer or rapist had been blown away in a tornado, that’s fine by me. But that’s not what we talk about here, the predominant theme, or one of them, are meddlers calling CPS over things where it’s not warranted, and especially people altering their free-range parenting styles because of it–and that is an atmosphere that ought to not be. If this were a blog about the outrage of murderers who walk etc, then I would’ve mentioned them specifically in the tornado bit.

LRH

Dolly Maybe things are different in different regions of the country, I don’t know. I have heard accounts of persons around here talking about how CPS became involved–and was quite threatening–when their child got a bruise above their eye playing a Little League game. Someone thinking of calling on my mother-in-law just because her grandkids had a little mud on them, maybe it’s too hot around here and people are crazy from the heat, I don’t know.

I don’t verbally shred “in real life” as I do on message boards, for me message boards are a great “venting outlet” which helps me be much more pleasant to people whom I know in real life. Some say a person should be as pleasant online as in person, I disagree, I think having the outlet is great and I do go with the “it’s only the Internet” type of thinking. It’s one of the things I dislike about Facebook, stripping away the “alternate reality” of the Internet there, I totally don’t like that at all.

Before I close, let me say–I think many others would agree with me in disagreeing with your “so what” about people calling CPS. The very idea of an outside government agency coming into my home nagging me about my parenting is insulting. To me, I shouldn’t have to answer to anyone else–not even in the government–about how I parent my kids, especially as long as there are no hideous things going on like molestation, beatings etc–needless to say no such horrific things occur in our home. I also oppose seat-belt laws and motorcycle helmet laws for adults as well, I consider it communism.

So to outsiders, especially in the government, I’m like–leave me alone, and leave the others alone too.

LRH

Frances Yes I am saying that, most certainly. Well let me put it like this–I am NOT promoting politics here, but I am told Rush Limbaugh is a very nice & respectful person in-person, even to liberals–and he even has liberal friends whom he is very respectful to, even though on his radio show he blasts them. That’s how I approach this, and again, I am not at all promoting his “ditto head” views, but rather that he, I am told, is “unleashed” on his show which is sort of his “outlet” yet is very respectful to all in person.

It’s also how some of is will scream at other drivers who bug us, we are in our cars and don’t see them nor them us, but don’t scream the same way when we are more up-close. I may rant about an old person driving too slow yet I can’t imagine verbally shredding an old lady face-to-face. I think we ALL do that. That’s what I mean.

(But in real life I do use “schizophrenic” the way I did in-here.)

LRH

@ Larry – As you said, Rush Limbaugh blasts people on HIS radio show. People who tune into Rush’s show do so to hear him rant and blast people. I’ve seen him be respectful on other talk shows on which he’s been a guest (although frequently the point of having him come on is to be “Rush” so we see less courtesy.)

Insult people all you want on YOUR blog. People can choose to read it or not. Insulting people on SOMEONE ELSE’s blog is exceedingly rude.

Well Dolly people compliment me on my parenting as well, especially on how I still have energy left-over (because I don’t neglect my own self in it, more on that later) and on how well behaved they are. My 2 year old son can be the fussy sort somewhat, but he is much less of that around me–either because he’s “bonded” to me or because I have a zero-tolerance attitude towards fussiness for any reason other than scrapes etc. His tendencies towards fussing over every little thing are something I broke him of, at least in my presence, and people notice that.

I would say that if things are going that well for you, that’s all the more reason CPS should leave you alone. It’s an insult, and in too many cases it goes beyond just insulting someone’s parental authority to the point of even undermining it. If you are able to laugh about the whole thing, great, but me–I’m hostile about it, because it’s an insult–as a parent, I should be above questioning, as long as there isn’t molestation etc going on. They’ve only showed up a couple of times in more recent times, and we have our 2 kids totally free & clear, but even those 2 times are 2 times too much for me. This is MY home, I shouldn’t have to explain anything to them about what we do here & why we do it. That “innocent kids live here too, Mr Harrison” is irrelevant in my opinion.

If they limited their existence to dealing with the extreme cases, that would be fine–but in my experiences & others whom I know, they don’t. That you haven’t experienced this–good, and I hope you never do. Keep up the good work.

Part of it may be–I don’t know, but MAY be–that I don’t spoil my kids. I am not judging your parenting, but I do not & will not spoil my kids. I LOVE on them, sure, but I don’t spoil them. In our home, our marriage comes before them. We had our kids “cry it out” for naps and bedtime rather than coddling them to pieces. We do little childproofing, our attitude is–it’s OUR house, and you better control your curiosity impulses and stay out of our stuff, especially when you have your own toys to occupy you. (Obviously, we don’t leave rifles and guns laying all over the place, or gasoline cans etc.)

Also, things like–our 4 year old, last year she loved going to the lakes and splashing around, this year–for some reason, she’s taken a disliking to it, out of nowhere. However I have always loved going to lakes etc, as does my wife. So guess what–we still go anyway, and that she doesn’t like it–tough cookies, sweetie, we aren’t staying away because YOU don’t like it. We’re the adults, we’re in charge, you’re here to go along with OUR pursuits, not for us to hijack ours to make it all about you and your brother either (although he still likes the lakes etc).

Also, the 4 year old generally dislikes having her picture taken–and I’m a hobbyist photographer, how about that–and when she acts ugly about it, she gets disciplined for it, and playtime etc taken away for her attitude (whereas if she cooperates, even just for 2 minutes, she’s “released” to free-range play, and rewarded for it as well–she loves donuts).

Other parents advocate “respect” being that if she doesn’t like her photo being taken, then respect that and don’t, and hey–they’re kids, they don’t care about photos, they want to play, leave them alone. My response–we are the adults, who are in CHARGE–they aren’t–and after all, anyone who knows me will tell you that I allow for a HUGE amount of free-play, and even engage in it with them on occasion as well. I facilitate a LOT of play, very free-range as well, they’re allowed to roll in the mud ad nauseum (did I spell that right?) and, the lake deal aside, most of the playtime are things the 4 year old likes, and for the 4-year old to be selfish & not want to pause for 2 minutes to let daddy, who likes to take photos, take a nice photo of his little girl–that is selfish, and it isn’t going to be tolerated.

We’re your parents, you’re the child, and your job as the child is to do what you’re told whether you like it or not, and FROM THERE we will accommodate certain of your preferences (that’s why, even though other kids we know are ok with me photographing them for long periods, with her–if I she is cooperative for a mere 2 minutes or so, I let that be enough, I leave it at that and she gets the aforementioned free-play & treats etc).

And I PROUDLY speak of how I am that way, and I do know that attitude rubs advocates of a “child-centered home” the wrong way, so that may have something to do with it, I don’t know, because I do know a lot of people think that when you have kids your own needs & likes etc are now considered irrelevant, you’re supposed to cater to their every whim and NEVER impose your will on ANYTHING (other than, maybe, preventing them from getting killed running out in the street), and we don’t do it that way at all.

By contrast, a relative of ours, for instance, if all of us as a group are proposing that we all hang out & such and such a place, she will say “my kids don’t like it”–NOT that it’s not kids-friendly or good for kids in general (we’re not asking this person to go to a club at 2 a.m.and get smashed etc), but my kids don’t like it. (I know for sure she isn’t the perpetrator, though, she’s very respectful of the differences in-style, and we are too.)

The way I was raised, adults wouldn’t have flinched–they’d gone anyway, and we kids would’ve adapted to THEM, not the other way around. As I always say, I love Lenore Skenazy and her free-range philosophy, but I’m also a disciple of John Rosemond too, a parenting pundit who is real big on moving away from a child-centered type of home as you see a lot of nowadays. (He actually praised Lenore for “not succumbing to society’s silly worries” or something like that, back in 2008 during the initial “Subway Incident” deal.)

But a lot of people disagree with that attitude nowadays I find, and maybe they seek to meddle, I don’t know. Whatever, as long as CPS stays away and people “live and let live,” they can “hate” all they want. I don’t agree at all with the “spoil” approach you see a lot of nowadays, and I speak out against it–but I would never meddle either.

LRH

@ Larry – Personally, I don’t care about PC, schizophrenic or retarded. However, saying that you are happy that certain people are infertile, killed in tornados, etc is a bit over the top. As are long rants about how you can say whatever you want to say on other people’s blogs and don’t care about courtesy because you are on the internet. If you don’t care what people think about your use of the term “schizophrenic,” use it as you wish and ignore the naysayers. The endless justification just makes you seem like an a$$.

Frances What I did before? I don’t know–played a lot of basketball? (Which, in fact, I still do.) That’s what I like about the Internet, except in the Facebook realm–you can really say what’s on your mind in an “unleashed” manner, in ways you’d never do–or WANT to do (even in my case)–to people you know in the flesh. I love it. In photography forums, opinions can run high on why this camera is better than that one (you would be surprised how “high strung” those conversations can run), and I play along–I can give my opinions (sermons?) about cameras in ways I would NEVER do to people I know in real life who are into photography, and in “real life” I harbor no ill will towards the differing opinions of such people–but in those forums, I–and many others–let it rip.

I have meant to give examples of where people COULD be politically correct, but refreshingly haven’t yet become–and how I think the examples here are no different than those could or would be, but I will save that for later. (Maybe another post that follows this one, but I don’t want to annoy Lenore either by making her “you have a new post” alert go off 30,000 times solely because of “yet another Larry rant,” ha ha.)

But yes Donna, at some point, you can come off as an ass, and I don’t want to do that–really, I don’t. The examples you cite MAY be a bit over-the-top–MAY be, and I will say this–if I read right, it seem to recall you saying that you have infertility issues, and I mean this when I say this–I hate it for you. I read somewhere also, if I say it right, that you once had a miscarriage–and again, I am sorry for you. I really am. I am NOT going to NECESSARILY say that my rant about celebrating my relative’s infertility (one who has a judgmental attitude towards other parents & even has a tendency to sick CPS on them maliciously) was wrong, because I am not WISHING for something to happen, it has, and I’m merely suggesting that maybe it’s karma at play–but that said, I surely don’t wish for a condition as it has happened to you, and I really am sorry for the pain and heartache etc it has caused to you.

It’s really an extension–maybe an overblown one on my part?–of how, for example, a friend of mine–a really good all-around guy who is so full of love and compassionate and is a great husband & father to his family–this guy suffers from migraine headache outbursts that, at times, are so bad he has to stop work & lay down on a couch with sunglasses to block out light. (Luckily his various jobs are flexible with him on that.)

I see & hear of his experiences, and I really hate it for him so bad, and in the days when Saddam Hussein & Osama were still with us, I couldn’t help but think–why should a great guy like my friend have this? Shouldn’t people like Saddam & Osama be the ones with such ordeals instead of a wonderful guy like my friend?

So my comments about the tornado etc are an extension of that, somewhat–but maybe, just MAYBE, it’s an OVER-extension of that which flirts with being tacky. I just know that I get tired of seeing bad things happen to such good people, and can’t help but think (and vent?) at how I feel it in terms of other people who would be FAR more deserving. It’s hard to accept sometimes that it’s not my call–or our call as the human race in general–how these things are decided.

But anyway….

(Is that a mis-use of the ellipsis, ha ha!)

LRH

Larry: The way you describe your parenting policy actually sounds very reasonable that you do expect them to obey you and respect you, etc and that you teach your children they are not the center of the universe, etc. I agree. I do that too with my kids. Having toys everywhere does not mean we don’t do that. I was an only child with a whole playroom full of toys and a bedroom full of toys too. But my parents made me behave. I make mine behave. So you know spoiled does not have to mean bratty or ill behaved. It just means they got a lot of stuff. Maybe priveledged would be the better word.

My abby is a very much “do-it-myself”. She got into a drawer and found a bag of jelly beans and opened it herself… I worry a lot about her opening the front door (because she wants to go “out”). Fortunately she can’t reach the deadbolt (yet)– there is a street with a blind corner that cars come around very fast and there are no sidewalks.
I reiterate that the “child wandering” cases here have been kids where they couldn’t find or wake the parent who was supposed to be watching them. Fortunately, our neighbors (and crossing guard) know her well and would probably get to her first if she got out! It takes a village…